mutant Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) I think I might have an incidence of chimera. before anything else, does anyone know how much chimera plants are sold? a selinicereus threw a funky branch... should be interesting the big question is: should I cut it off and reroot it to preserve it? Edited May 16, 2012 by mutant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
watertrade Posted May 16, 2012 any pics for us to see ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted May 16, 2012 Hi Mutant, chimeras are not worth as much as you would think they are. Passed numerous times to buy diffrent alleged chimeras from Hungarian and Polish growers because i wasnt really convinced its not just a simple hybrid. One for 20 euro, another time price was like 7-15 euro. You know, if its a new plant and if its really a true chimera, it might be possible to sell a plant like that to one of the guys who mass propagate it because they are the ones paying big money (up to 500 euro) for a new type of plant. But they only do this once. Once plant is in their hands, prices drop to the ones i already mentioned before. When its about plants like this, there is no way telling what someone would pay for it. If you are lucky and find the right guy at the right time, you might get some serious money. But on the open market, most chimeras dont sell that well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zelly Posted May 16, 2012 a selinicereus threw a funky branch... what makes you think its a chimera & not just a mutant? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) EG, thanks, I was thinking along these lines too: if it is a chimera, and it propagates well, you would/could sell to one or twopersons for good money, but yeah, only once yeah. what makes you think its a chimera & not just a mutant? supposing this isnt a joke, isnt a chimera a mutation, only including 2 different cacti tissues? so you're asking why I think there's a different tissue in the funky branch? well at first I didn't not. Philo, I will, provide photographs, but I am delaying a bit, so as you are in more agony and the money I get for my chimera go up! y'know its all about the hype LOL PS: In any case, should I cut from mother plant to preserve the mutation, or it will continue from then on? Edited May 16, 2012 by mutant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted May 16, 2012 Hi Mutant, i have no idea. The principle that the DNA from two diffrent cacti can be spliced together by a simple graft always came as some kind of mystery to me. Not saying its not possible but i would really love to know if there is any reliable sctientific data available that backs the theory. I´ve seen some crazy mutants being sold as chimeras and its definately a fascinating topic so please post your pics, mutant. Would need to see pics before i can tell you what to do with it right now. It depends how fragile or strong the pup is. I would definately wait till its bigh enough to get a few SAFE grafts out of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) I´ve seen some crazy mutants being sold as chimeras mutants like what? like ,say, a plant infected with witches broom with extreme pupping? last night I read up a bit on chimeras [a greek word btw] and they said a chimera either pups from the connection of a graft or less often from the scion, but they seem to agree it happens with grafting, even though little to none is known. I remember something from earlier times, when someone told me its probably something funky happening when they two tissues [stock and scion] are united [see, sometimes you play with the scion on the stock back and forth till you get some sticky liquid onthe scion to use as glue, then place correctly and press , and may be some tissue in 1in1 million gets misplaced and some molecules are mixed up at the union surface resulting in the anomaly... anyways... I had done 4 successful grafts in random branches of this big Selinicereus , scion was Monvilea spegazini monstrosa. they were done outside and for fun. The supposed chimera is therefore called ,say, "Selinivilea". The result is a two multi rib Selinicereus branches, the one with some 12-14 ribs,didn't count them all, the other less intense, but still ... at first, I couldnt explain how this result can happen with a regular monvilea [4-5 ribs] but, maybe, the multirib thing [varied and alternating number of ribs] was caused by the monstrose genes/tissue from monvillea. Unless you do regard 14 ribs on selinicereus normal, which would result in something like this... Edited May 16, 2012 by mutant 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stillman Posted May 16, 2012 thats pretty cool man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CβL Posted May 18, 2012 That IS very strange. Which Selenicereus was it? Do you have photos of the original one? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoOnThen Posted May 18, 2012 Which Selenicereus was it? Do you have photos of the original one I would like to know this as well. I had though he was using grandiflorus but the rib structure looks different as does the spines from most pics that I have seen. Cheers Got Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted May 18, 2012 Hi Mutant, please post some pics of the type of selenicereus you´ve used as stock. I wanna see how it looked before you´ve cut it. If possible. Where did you get it from? Raised from seed or did you get a cutting. Were you able to observe the flower? Its possible its a chimera but we´ll only know for sure if we can exclude all other possibilities. It reminds me of some Aporocacti i know. They are very similar to selenicereus and some may put out more ribs than others when they pup. There are so many that i hardly know how all of them flower so we should make sure its really a selenicereus (and which one) before we can go further. This is really interesting but i am not familiar enough with this whole tribe to know if it is really unique or not. But i am sure i can find some more info in the literature that i have if you can provide some more pics or descriptions of the stock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted May 18, 2012 hey, going to the GH now, I will return later and update You might be right in that the spines,both hairyand central are much more pronounced. Hmmm, I have to study thismore. Myselinicerei I thinkhas one centraland its white/whitish. Hmmm, these are quite dark.... I dont remember how I got it. It's probably the type that is found locally.I have propagated massivlely and only left couple plants in a huge container on my roof, where I systematically also took cuttings. Which reminds me I probably haven't shown pics of the growing tip, which is very characteristic. So its the same Selinicereus I have been praising as a grafting stock,and it's propably the S.grandiflorus. Thankfully, at this moment, I have two buds on it too [talk about luck, Sagiattarian luck perhaps?] so will soon know flower. As to where the phenomenon happened: it happened NOT on oneof the graft's unions [3 of them where cut with part of selinicereusstock and rerooted,one of them, a later one is still on, all Monvillea] and NOT on a scion. The strange pups came from another spot of the stock, further/longer away / above the point where the 3 successful grafts used to be [now cut away]. EG, nice thought on the Aporocactus but no, its a selinicereus,with max number of ribs I have counted 7, maybe 8. Thanks for helping clearing this out. Will return with photo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) hey... I have to take back what I said about the different spines. Its just that with so many ribs, the areoles [and spines] seem denser. They might be a bit more in number, especially the hard central ones, but for the moment I will not dare say so. Colours seem the same. So the only abnormality so far is the extreme number of ribs which has rendered the stem roundish instead of the usual square. here's proper selini ^^^^ note this one has 7 ribs and the two 'chimeric' branches and the buds Edited May 18, 2012 by mutant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kadakuda Posted May 18, 2012 nice pictures but this happens with seleni/hylo a fair bit. they throw out stems with tons of ribs. seen it on acanthocereus a couple times too. maybe its a tropical vine type thing. i have wondered if its a confusion of flower/stem. look at the base how swollen it is like a flower would be. And a flower hasareoles all aroudn it, so i think it is probably just a flaw in making flowers. sometimes they will flower, fruit and start to grow normal form teh end of the fruit.in the end they tend to revert back to normal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted May 19, 2012 well it was great as it lasted lol maybe it's super junction, maybe the plant is putting much energy there, explaining the swollen base and so many ribs... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted May 20, 2012 Yes it happens that a flower turns into a regular (mutated) pup. Had that like 2-3 times now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted May 20, 2012 hmmm I see. but the 'mutated pup' reverts to normal afterwards huh? at least I get to see the flowers of this cactus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kadakuda Posted May 22, 2012 ya they tend to turn back, or start a new section. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoOnThen Posted May 23, 2012 Can anyone give a positive ID on this Selinicereus as it is different to the one that I have and have seen. I presume the flower is going to help. Mutant can you post photos of the flowers when they open please Cheers Got Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CβL Posted May 23, 2012 I am also growing Selenicereus Grandiflorus, and it's much different to the plant in the photos. Mine is much fatter, and the ribs are less pronounced (they tend to merge smoothly back into a round column shape). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zelly Posted February 1, 2014 Can anyone give a positive ID on this Selinicereus as it is different to the one that I have and have seen. I presume the flower is going to help. Mutant can you post photos of the flowers when they open please Cheers Got Judging by this section of the stem(pic below), the stem most closely resembles Selenicereus grandiflorus ssp donkelaarii, or at least thats what it looks like in the new cactus lexicon book. aka, mutants mutant. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jox Posted February 2, 2014 That is S.hamatus. I have a lot of this growing & it sometimes throws out new growth that looks like your photos . You can tell its S.hamatus by the fleshy knobs/hooks. Cheers Jox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted February 5, 2014 hurray! graft the fuck away its worth it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
