whitewind Posted April 25, 2012 The fact is that dying as a willing sacrifice in war trumps dying from colon cancer as a result of eating burnt meat and smoking ciggies everyday just because you can... bravery is a real thing, stupidity should not be honoured. i assume it is the less able to rationalise this idea that will be doing the disrespecting and missing the meaning behind rememberance day. The assumption (as is yours) is that everyone who doesn't die in a war soldiering for the winning side, dies after doing something much less worthy than this, like mothering, or teaching, all of their life. Your post even assumes that they are stupid because of such. I don't understand this thinking. Bravery can take many forms, taking on a classroom full of psycho kids from a depressed neighbourhood is something I couldn't face, yet many people do and suffer from it. Does this make their death any the less sad, what if they die early from stress? I mean no disrespect to soldiers, however, all I am asking is why does our society only respect the deaths of soldiers, and not the very fact that life is transient and that many people have something to contribute? Within such a day of respect for everyone we can make special effort to mark respect for the soldiers, but I think it (rightly) angers many that such a big deal is made of one small subsection of society while generally not acknowledging the great works of so many others. There is a lot of "don't question, just respect" on this blog that surprises me, from the psychedelic community. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Psylo Posted April 25, 2012 angers?... moron. This precisely the problem. One doesn't follow suit in blind obedience to a stupid nationalistic lemmings event, and he gets insulted. I would have also accepted (and have done) terrorist, communist or un-australian, but 'moron' illustrates the point sufficiently. Tattoo shops are doing a roaring trade in Southern Cross designs today, the uniform of the blind patriot. But I'm sure Reptye only wears an Aussie flag as a cape. Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi ! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qualia Posted April 25, 2012 after WW2 a lot of the wars in question were started because of america's insistence people accept their world view, come hell or high water. certainly after vietnam i don't think there hasn't been a war with australia's involvement which hasn't come about because of america's interference. ANZAC day, to a certain extent, i view as being a tacit acceptance/support of the wests continuing drive to impose itself and it's (im)morals on the rest of the world. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Psylo Posted April 25, 2012 Exactly ! The origin of ANZAC day is to commemorate those who fought at Gallipoli in World War 1. It was not created as a day of rememberence for any other conflict. Isn't every Australian WW1 soldier now dead? It's unlikely that anyone but the oldest members of society even remember these original soldiers personally, so why are the lat three generations even participating in the march, or the whole concept in fact? While the blind patriot movement might go on to say that it's been adapted to cover every war fought, this is a fairly illogical impetus if said in the same breath as 'fighting for our country', or 'protecting our nation's freedom'. The wars in Korea, Malaysia, Vietnam, Iraq & Afghanistan had absolutely nothing to do with protecting Australia. There was no reason for Australian soldiers to be a part of these conflicts, and commemorating these events is irrational, nationalistic white pride, nothing more. WW1 is over. Everyone is gone. It's time to cease ANZAC day once and for all. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Psylo Posted April 25, 2012 Allow me to share an ABS finding, stated below in a parliamentary document. The key consideration here is this: The Australian population is ethnically diverse. At the 2006 census almost half of the Australian population was born overseas or had one or both parents born overseas (ABS, 2007), representing more than 260 source countries So unless these people are mostly kiwi's, then an annual remembrance day for the ancestors of only half the population really stinks of cultural-supremacist nationalism. Technically, when the latest generation starts having kids, the figures will exceed 50% of non-ANZAC ancestors, thus making the day even more irrelevant, to the point of being insulting to the changing face of modern Australian society. http://www.google.co...CFvP1AA&cad=rja Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seldom Posted April 25, 2012 I am suggesting that showing respect for one small subsect of society over all others is actually a form of cultural prejudice. mate a prejudice is a preconceived opinion not based on reason or experience. this insn't what anyone i know does on ANZAC day. There is a lot of cultural conditioning, anyone who questions something that is claimed to be honourable or brave and suggests that others are due a similar respect gets abuse and very strong criticism. there's no hidden sub-clause that says remember the fallen on ANZAC day because no one else deserves that amount of honor. dedicating a day to these events doesn't devalue other events or the people that participated in them. it angers me that i live in a country where idiots see caring about these events as an obligation, and devalue their significance, all the while reaping the benefits of them having happened. are you looking for someone to say: sorry mate, sorry that thousands of people dying to ensure the safety of your country makes you feel like you owe them some respect.. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sallubrious Posted April 25, 2012 This precisely the problem. One doesn't follow suit in blind obedience to a stupid nationalistic lemmings event, and he gets insulted. I would have also accepted (and have done) terrorist, communist or un-australian, but 'moron' illustrates the point sufficiently. I'd take it one step further and describe ANZAC day as a form of mass hypnosis complete with hooks and devices to reinforce the implanted messages (which are really just patriotic ramblings) The bugle, the flag, the poem (ode of remembrance) the two up. The holiday with an alcoholic twist helps to endear it to the public too. Just look at the way 5 and 6 year olds at ANZAC ceremonies are reduced to tears over something they don't understand. My kids came home with a letter from school that dribbled on about WW1 soldiers giving their lives to protect Australia, WW1 soldiers weren't defending Australia anyway they were used as cannon fodder by foreign generals to attack and defend other countries. Join the army Travel to far off exotic lands Meet exiting new people And Kill them 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goldtop Posted April 25, 2012 Join the army Travel to far off exotic lands Meet exiting new people And Kill them Haha sold Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reptyle Posted April 25, 2012 soldiers die so they get a day of rememberamce... teachers, nurses, Austrlians, writers, sicentists etc, get years or prizes in their honour... so they can enjoy it. we just celebrated easter... istarte... ishtar... etc...Godess of fetility, and ...WAR!!! indra... god of psychedelic sacraments... God of WAR!!!!! muhammed, a rather warring character... used syriuan rue to make his soldiers brave... inner peace... outer exhuberance... i agree we are somehwat piggie backing on the U.S. though i think u will find the U.S is a scape goat for many other western allied countires setting up a military wall against certain other threatening superpowers... i would even go so far as to say that if u really looked into it... all the muslim countries are in support of this effort... and are willingly "playing the victim" to divert attention... One True God... believers united. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stillman Posted April 25, 2012 showing respect for days like Anzac day is hardly blind patriotism. I don't see why you are so apposed to it? It doesn't descriminate. There were young Papuan new guinea men with there grandfathers medals on, even a few old English return servicemen no doubt a few other nationalities. Would it be better if we pretend it didn't happen? I think its a good thing to remember and I think it reminds people how shit war is actually. It dose not glorify war it reminds us about sacrifice and how alot of good men follow orders and have to do terrible things and often only pull through to protect and help there brothers. I mean Galipoli was hardly a success story they got butchered. And I would be very surprised if other nationalities and ethnic groups don't have similar remembrance services. If thats what people need then let them have it, it doesn't hurt anyone. This thread is just troll fodder now. How I see it is that some of us choose to disagree, we will never change each others opinions but we should also respect the fact that some of us have family that was involved in these wars and that these men in our eyes should be remembered for the sacrifices they made. Both my grand fathers went to war both served in conflicts in different continents, one was a rat of trabok he was injured badly there and in New Guinea. He joined when he was 21 and was discharged with "shell shock" when he was 27. He hated the war he never went to Anzac days and he despised the pomp and ceremony. I never went to a service until after he died. I go because I believe we should remember what they did so we can learn from it . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Psylo Posted April 25, 2012 I'm exercising my right to not give a fuck about ANZAC day. Deal with it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sallubrious Posted April 25, 2012 My grandfather fought in PNG too and he went out his way to insist that I investigate the politics and corporate involvement in war/s In WW2 it is estimated that over 60 million people died, the biggest most horrendous calamity in recorded history. But when you look into who profiteered from WW2 and subsequent wars, patterns start to evolve. Corporations like IBM rose to prominence on the back of WW2 and made massive profits from the deaths of millions. Many corporations (mainly US based) derive large parts of their income from wars and everything associated. Tanks, guns, bombs, mines, helicopters, tanks aircraft, tech equipment etc etc. The world didn't learn it's lesson from WW2 and move on to a state reason and deeper logic, the war cemented the fact that those with more muscle can pizzle someone with less. All wars need a supply of people willing to carry out the wishes of those in power (those who many times happen to be installed by the same corporate figureheads that serve to benefit from war) and patriotism is the the main tool they have to pre dispose future generations to the us and them mentality and condition people to the validity of war. I still believe that ANZACS were naive and patriotic to the point where it cost them their lives with no benefit for for this country, in fact I believe it was all to the detriment of the country. People/corporations are making big bucks of all of this. Lest we forget. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cosmonaut Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) <deleted> Sorry! :-) Edited April 29, 2012 by Cosmonaut Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seldom Posted April 25, 2012 soldiers die so they get a day of rememberamce... teachers, nurses, Austrlians, writers, sicentists etc, get years or prizes in their honour... so they can enjoy it. we just celebrated easter... istarte... ishtar... etc...Godess of fetility, and ...WAR!!! indra... god of psychedelic sacraments... God of WAR!!!!! muhammed, a rather warring character... used syriuan rue to make his soldiers brave... inner peace... outer exhuberance... i agree we are somehwat piggie backing on the U.S. though i think u will find the U.S is a scape goat for many other western allied countires setting up a military wall against certain other threatening superpowers... i would even go so far as to say that if u really looked into it... all the muslim countries are in support of this effort... and are willingly "playing the victim" to divert attention... One True God... believers united. reptyle, dropping some knowledge! your posts are from the future man Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reptyle Posted April 25, 2012 i am from the future man. i really only wish that we could emulate the warriors who devoted themselves and act with honour in the "war on drugs" and collectively move towards liberating and legitimising our sacred sacraments for those worthy brothers and sisters who are to follow us... when we act with divine pride and show ourselves to be living up to our own highest standards we are winning the battle against our own concious minds and those who should choose to judge and condemn us. ready to live in service to tomorrows perfections... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chnt Posted April 26, 2012 Yes that is what it is for. Tomorrow is Anzac Day it is Anzac Day for a reason why can we not just remember the fallen on this one day without all of the political correctness what about me crap. We all should remember the lives that have been lost fighting for our country. I was going to reply to this but a just cant be fucked wasting my time. They went with songs to the battle, they were young. Straight of limb, true of eyes, steady and aglow. They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted, They fell with their faces to the foe. They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning, We will remember them. Lest we forget Got why should we all remember the lives that have been lost fighting for "our" country? Would be a bit strage if we had a national day for chinese cival war ventrens.... who said anything about that? Your attitude is suprisingly immature, one who no doubt dreads the psylo... We all have choices in this lifetime... to stand and fight... to run for safety... to listen and take heed, and to act accordingly... We are all responsible for our own deeds... Some choose to stand in the face of relative evil and defend what we have been shown to be worthy of our lives... to those ones we should bow down in honour of their willing sacrifice. To those who lost their lives incidently... i offer a lambs fleece and a rose. Do not defile the memory of our worlds warriors with selfish personal emotional reactivity. God is watching. you call someone immature for expressing a perspective that differs from what is socially accepted, and in the next post call them a "moron" for the same reason, who is being immature here? you promote yourself as a holier than thou/morally superior being, yet you talk about a group of humans as being evil because they happen to be born in a place who's gov. at that time was against our gov. at that time in a war setting. is the world so black and white for you that there is good and evil? did you know that in psychology, splitting is seen as a relatively immature defence mechanism. i wonder if so many people that decided to go to war for their government's agenda would have done so if they had had a more informed opinion about war that hadn't been distorted with the association of glory and honour and defending your great country's freedom and other things like this, plus further distortions with negative associations of the opposition in regards to racism and other forms of dehumanisation and depersonalisation, there is no honour in war, just death, destruction and brutality. tell me who is defiling anyone's memory? tell me who is this god that is supposedly watching? just recently i got off a weeks ban for calling someone clown shoes. look at the content of this thread. ANZAC day isn't a platform for anything but the remembrance of people who died fighting for our country, not for moral preaching about what other days people think should exist, or any other shit. i dont think the lack of days nebulously dedicated to 'everyone in history or Afghan civilians detracts from the importance of what today is about. some of you guys show a real lack of respect here. maybe would be different if like me you had relatives that fought in Gallipoli, think about the fact for example that it wasn't uncommon for an ANZAC to have enlisted by getting their parents to bodgy up the papers so that they could go to war when they're 16 or 17, it's not hard to guess how many people would do that these days what exactly is wrong with the content of this thread? i didn't realise that people weren't allowed to have opinions that differ from what is socially accepted and normal, i need to remember to not question authority and not think for myself, i need to follow, follow, follow. in future, can everyone please not have legitimate discussions about different ideas and issues, please just accept the norm. i didn't realise that not wanting to please your government's agenda by trying to kill people with guns and bombs regardless of age was cowardice, let alone at age 16-17... for a while now i thought peace was a good thing, but i guess not, i guess we should just start killing everyone who is different to us. i guess that my issues with governments and social norms shows a real lack of respect for people that were killed as a result of governments and social norms. i guess that caring about everyone rather than a group of white people shows a real lack of respect for white people, because white people are more important than everyone else, so i should care about them more. oh and how do you know that i or anyone else who doesn't agree with the social norm didn't have any relatives that fought in any wars? my grandfather fought in ww2, my best mate's grandfather fought in ww1, tell me how does this change anything? The fact is that dying as a willing sacrifice in war trumps dying from colon cancer as a result of eating burnt meat and smoking ciggies everyday just because you can... bravery is a real thing, stupidity should not be honoured. i assume it is the less able to rationalise this idea that will be doing the disrespecting and missing the meaning behind rememberance day. i respect warriors... i dont really know what ANZAC day is about though, other than remember a sepcific corp. that did some specifically good things... i would like to think that in 100 years someone will be remmber the "ASC", shamanic corp... but i have a feeling all ya'll are a bit pansy in the pants to actually stand up for yourselves and face a legitimate enemy threat. you assume those that are less able to rationalise this idea will be the ones disrespecting and missing the meaning behind remembrance day, perhaps it is those who are less able to rationalise this idea that are the ones who take offence to those who are able to comprehend these things and have a perspective that differs from the social norm... stupidity is honoured all the time, like the invention of "god" I am suggesting that showing respect for one small subsect of society over all others is actually a form of cultural prejudice. mate a prejudice is a preconceived opinion not based on reason or experience. this insn't what anyone i know does on ANZAC day. There is a lot of cultural conditioning, anyone who questions something that is claimed to be honourable or brave and suggests that others are due a similar respect gets abuse and very strong criticism. there's no hidden sub-clause that says remember the fallen on ANZAC day because no one else deserves that amount of honor. dedicating a day to these events doesn't devalue other events or the people that participated in them. it angers me that i live in a country where idiots see caring about these events as an obligation, and devalue their significance, all the while reaping the benefits of them having happened. are you looking for someone to say: sorry mate, sorry that thousands of people dying to ensure the safety of your country makes you feel like you owe them some respect.. dedicating a day to honouring certain people does devalue other people. in this example, glorifying the ANZACs (regardless of whether they deserve it or not, i am not saying they dont) influences people to view them as good, and who they were fighting as bad, this example was clearly shown in one of reptyle's post's that i quoted above, this is simply one example of my point above. yes ensuring safety, you're right, we are safe to do what the gov tells us. i'm sure all the people who have suffered at the hands of the law in regards to non-violent drug use are very grateful for the freedom and safety granted by this great country, i'm also sure that all the wildlife and plantlife as well as the great barrier reef are extremely grateful to the freedom and safety granted by this amazing country. correct me if i'm wrong, but your user name "bulls on parade" comes from a song by the activist hip-hop/rock group rage against the machine. as someone who chose a username in reference to such a band, one would think this person may have similar ideals to this band. from your attitude and behaviour here at the corroboree bulls, i find it difficult to see a correlation between your ideals and the ideals of the group rage against the machine, it seems that you have no problem with social norms and conforming to the machine, or perhaps i'm missing something... perhaps psylo dread is the machine, yes it all makes sense now. soldiers die so they get a day of rememberamce... teachers, nurses, Austrlians, writers, sicentists etc, get years or prizes in their honour... so they can enjoy it. we just celebrated easter... istarte... ishtar... etc...Godess of fetility, and ...WAR!!! indra... god of psychedelic sacraments... God of WAR!!!!! muhammed, a rather warring character... used syriuan rue to make his soldiers brave... inner peace... outer exhuberance... i agree we are somehwat piggie backing on the U.S. though i think u will find the U.S is a scape goat for many other western allied countires setting up a military wall against certain other threatening superpowers... i would even go so far as to say that if u really looked into it... all the muslim countries are in support of this effort... and are willingly "playing the victim" to divert attention... One True God... believers united. the US are the international bullies, they are no scape goat. i am from the future man. i really only wish that we could emulate the warriors who devoted themselves and act with honour in the "war on drugs" and collectively move towards liberating and legitimising our sacred sacraments for those worthy brothers and sisters who are to follow us... when we act with divine pride and show ourselves to be living up to our own highest standards we are winning the battle against our own concious minds and those who should choose to judge and condemn us. ready to live in service to tomorrows perfections... those "worthy" brothers and sisters... who is worthy? those that blindly follow your agenda? you're doing a good job in showing your true colours, the ones that lie behind the morally superior/holier than thou facade that so many people like to hide behind. oh you believe in god? you must be a better person than me, excuse me while i vomit in my mouth a little bit. i have this stupid idea that everyone deserves peace, happiness and freedom, and the freedom to think for themselves and to form their own opinions, guess i'm wrong once again Shou'd foreign foe e'er sight our coast, Or dare a foot to land, We'll rouse to arms like sires of yore To guard our native strand; Brittannia then shall surely know, Beyond wide ocean's roll, Her sons in fair Australia's land Still keep a British soul. In joyful strains the let us sing "Advance Australia fair!" 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
solomon Posted April 26, 2012 Good post chnt. Did anyone wear a white poppy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seldom Posted April 26, 2012 chnt you are at rebelliousness level 9000 can you elaborate further man i'm kind of getting you i read all of that of coarse, really deep, but what was your point again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chnt Posted April 26, 2012 another deeply thought out and relevant post by bulls. i apologise for my interest in discussing ideas and topics bulls, sincerely. nice retort by the way, you really broke down my points and strongly argued against them, dont i look the fool now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilli Posted April 26, 2012 we just celebrated easter... istarte... ishtar... etc...Godess of fetility, and ...WAR!!! Wrong. Easter has nothing to do with Ishtar, or war. The name Easter is derived from the name of the goddess Eostre, who has nothing to do with war, but is a fertility goddess. It's disturbing that a self-proclaimed enlightened one glorifies and worships war. Using Hindu deities to support your warmongering is inane, the Hindus grew out of that shit millennia ago: get with the program. I remember when psychedelics used to turn people on to peace and counterculturalism and stuff, not war and jingoism. 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seldom Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) lol i give in man, i admit it you're really edgy and against social norms and hate the government. its incomprehensible to me tho i'm trapped real bad brainwashed by the system, doomed to mundane conformity.. help..mee.. oh thank crikey that chnt is here, the bastion of moral virtue, realdy to defend the rights of people who hate ANZAC day.. Edited April 26, 2012 by bulls on parade Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chef's Foreskin Posted April 26, 2012 Can't we all just get along ? I hate seeing shit like this on SAB 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Psylo Posted April 26, 2012 Can't we all just get along ? I hate seeing shit like this on SAB What, you hate passionate conversation? With the occasional (obvious) exceptions, most posts are well thought-out entries, from both sides of the fence illustrating an opinion. The silencing of dialogue means that the man has won. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoOnThen Posted April 26, 2012 For a group of people that want freedom of speech and freedom in the way they live there lives there seems to be little or no consideration for the way other people think or the way they want to live there lives. Respect for other peoples views and beliefs and treating others how you would like to be treated I thought would be fundamental in a forum such as this. Whitewind I applaud the way you have handled yourself in this thread even though I don't agree with you Cheers Got 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chef's Foreskin Posted April 26, 2012 What, you hate passionate conversation? With the occasional (obvious) exceptions, most posts are well thought-out entries, from both sides of the fence illustrating an opinion. The silencing of dialogue means that the man has won. My bad, thought there were arguments. Shame on me for not reading through each post Forget I was even here! lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
