Occupy Melbourne Occupy Australia

[Mycot]

so yeah wasnt me

 

LOL Kinda guessed

Anyhow hardly matters who. I presently do not hold any resentments towards anyone to my knowledge.

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A few of my thoughts regarding population. It's taken a little while putting this together as problems related to population pressures are often of a complex nature with many inter-relating factors in terms of a given population being able to sustain itself or not.

This piece Re: "my thoughts regarding population" I wish to also function at least partially as an answer in relation to the quote "almost every problem people have on earth is caused by overpopulation" as we may take this quote as an initial proposition or premise.

A second quote that ought to be considered is "massive depopulation is the only chance our planet has of lasting much longer" for several reasons. One reason is that this second quote may be closely linked to the first quote such that it becomes an inescapable conclusion if we take the first quote as a true premise and through linking the two(and ironing out a couple small bugs) in a formal sylogistic form.

The result would be the sentence - "almost every problem people have on earth is caused by overpopulation, therefore massive depopulation is the only chance our planet has of lasting much longer". If we take depopulation as a viable and neccessary answer (which I do not) then further questions arise in relation to how much and how quickly. If too slow then it may all too easily turn into a case of too little too late. The corollary of all this is that if the first premise is false then the conclusion cannot be arrived at and therefore that action becomes unneccessary.

A second reason the second quote ought to be considered is because it brings up questions in relation to "massive depopulation" primary ones being how much and how quickly/urgently. This being touched upon in the previous paragraph it needn't be pursued further here for now.

A third reason the second quote ought to be considered (somewhat obviously) is in relation to a consideration of its truth or falsity. This also was briefly touched upon in the last sentence two paragraphs above.

Fourthly (but not least) the second quote ought to be considered is that even if it is not considered to be wholey accurate it does reflect and alert us of a state of the utmost crisis in a good number of ways and that if neccessary changes are not brought about in time then losses will be of a catastrophic nature and/or we may well kiss our ass goodby. An amendment of this second quote ought to be most strongly considered and on a personal level I assent to this, namely :- "Backing the occupy movement and in a timely manner may well be our last and only chance our planet has of lasting much longer".

***************

Time for a breather Ahh, before bravely plunging on and considering the first quote namely "almost every problem people have on earth is caused by overpopulation" and a consideration of its truth or falsity.

First off this quote may be considered as a premise, a proposition, a hypothesis or as the conclusion of an arguement preferably one that is not arrived at too hastily and one that is well thought out and relevent facts examined and considered. An arguement arriving at this conclusion let alone one fulfilling these conditions has as yet not been put forward here (and may not be neccesary if after carefully considering multiple factors it is decided that it would be best that this particular line of arguement would be best abandoned). This is not to say that larger populations may not magnify problems that are already present.

We ought to step back for a moment and consider what facts there are in relation to population. Some relevant ones are as follows :-

* The maximum population that the earth is able to support in a sustainable manner is limited.

* The maximum population that the earth is able to support in a sustainable manner is affected by many factors including climate, knowledge and science, politics and socio-economic ways of relating and distribution of resources. (A deeper look at some of these factors will follow in the next paragraph.)

* The current population of the earth is thought to be 7 billion and increasing, with predictions(dependant on many factors) of a global population of 9 billion by 2050.

* This following point cannot be described as a fact such things being hard to accurately assess but is more a personal opinion or belief namely :- we cannot afford much more in terms of global population.

* Population growth is currently not occuring at all in the vast majority of first world nations. Instead, what these nations experience is negative population growth, that is population is actually decreasing in these nations due to less than replacement rates and I believe this is the case even factoring in rising increases in average lifespans in these nations.

* Actual population growth giving rise to nett increase in global population primarily occurs in the third world nations. This being the case, the reasons for this growth ought to be more closely studied and examined with a view towards reducing or stopping population growth in these nations. These possible reasons may include one or more of the following :-

** Lack of knowledge and understanding regarding family planning and birth control methods. - Education.

**Lack of access(including economic) to a full range of birth control options including the pill and abortions. - To be made available, if neccessary freely.

** Religious and cultural reasons encouraging large families or restricting birth control options. - Education and common sense, problems in this category may be of a more complex nature but not neccessarilly insurmountable (possibly a change in socio-economic and socio-cultural conditions).

** The motivation that having larger numbers of children acts as an economic insurance in terms of being looked after in old age. - again possibly a change in socio-economic and socio-cultural conditions.

This paragraph looks at point two in the previous paragraph focusing primarily on socio-economic factors and how these impinge upon the sustainability of populations and also drastically effect the health of earth itself. Ghandi said that there is enough for everyones need but not enough for everyones greed.

Consider for a moment the socio-economic relations in a good number of tribal societies. Here we have a relation and feedback of mutual benefit between the individual and the tribe such that what is good for the tribe benefits the individual and what is good for the individual benefits the tribe. In such an arrangement there is minimized motivation for with-holding on the part of the individual if it benefits the tribe as a whole and individual members are strongly supported since this benefits the tribe as a whole. The system is one of mutual co-operation hugely benefiting all.

Now imagine if one or a small group of individuals hoarded a good proportion of the wealth/resources of the tribe. The social contract would be broken causing the tribe to become dis-functional threatening the tribes very survival. Such an individual would be quickly ejected from the tribe by one means or another. And yet this dis-functionality is our very situation if we consider humanity as a whole as one huge tribe, this dis-functionality reducing mutual wealth and survivability. Indeed the masses are ruthlessly farmed and manipulated in a zillion ways to maximise profit and power by Big Money/the higher points of the pyramid at huge cost to the collective and the environment. Maximizing profit and socializing losses. Psychopathy.

There is no trickle down effect, all the trickle is upwards with any seeming trickle down effect due to the extra hard yards put in by those at the bottom of the pyramid. Indeed the bottom rungs where real wealth (not money) creation occurs supports all above it.

How bad is the wealth inequality and distribution? Check out post No #71 in this thread for the figures for Australia which are indeed very shocking. Any claim of economic growth is largely a furby and largely meaningless for the masses.

The figures are god-damned worse for Americans as can be seen in this link. No wonder they are going apeshit. Any nation that allows this to occur to its own citizens can not by any stretch of the imagination call itself advanced. Indeed there is a question of duty of care to the point of gross negligence, incompetence and criminality. In many ways including moraly the government should be thrown out immediately.

At a point where there are bailouts(biggest ever scam), austerity measures and such, and the younger generation have little in the way of resources(in 2009 24% of American families with children were at some point too poor to buy food) to pay for the excesses of the previous generation and create a sustainable future for future generations, we may discern the outlines of the collape of a ponzi pyramid scheme with few areas of further exploitation. Those left would be shifting and exploiting labour to third countries badly impacting first world countries, reducing the middle class since that is the only place where there is any blood left and sharks feeding on sharks. And what may we expect for Australia in the relatively near future. The least would be a similar situation as that of America since we are on a similar trajectory.

Goddamn, how does this all work, how are the masses being fleeced. One obvious factor is that big money has power to change and control the economic game and its rules and life itself for large masses of the population leveraging its own advantage.

Consider the counterfeiter, he manufactures tokens by which he may aquire wealth from a real economy without contributing anything in return. In this way the economy is robbed and collectively left poorer since there is less real wealth to share. Similarly any method by which one increases ones dollar value without contributing anything or little in return similarly robs the real economy and is the eqivalent of counterfeiting in effect. Idealy for balance the exchange should be one of equal value. Unfortunately methods of creating even huge amounts of money while minimizing or eliminating return of value are a norm robbing the real economy.

For Big Money at its extreme end, there is little real motivation for investing in the real economy beyond a certain survival level when money and economic power may be more easily aquired by methods which privatize losses while socializing costs. Some major methods are "financial products/instruments", derivatives, mortgages, hedge funds, currency trading, commodity speculation, the list goes on.

Next we'll consider banking. Here we hear of money being created out of thin air, of ursery, that is loaning money at interest with the money required to pay off the interest having to be also borrowed creating ever larger compounding and increasing debt. Digging oneself into a hole deeper and deeper bleeding the economy dry.

Then there is fractional banking where the banks are able to loan out at interest, money many times the value of the money that they actually possess. This is a form of creating money out of thin air and similarly robs the real economy.

One could go on describing clear disfunctionalities within the economic system but I think that the point has been made and key important points for understanding the system have been described.

For the majority of Australians most of this stuff is invisible to them such that I recently remarked to a friend during a conversation on economics that "If a large enough proportion of the Australians population understood these things then the government would be out of office before tommorow morning". This reminds me of a quote by President Andrew Jackson 1829-1837 “You are a den of vipers! I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God I will rout you out. If the people only understood the rank injustice of our money and banking system, there would be a revolution before morning.”

Back to more directly considering population and my assessment of it. It is obvious that the system is thoroughly corrupt and has no real future sustainability even with a reduced population. Major fundamental changes have to be made socio-politically and socio-economically if we are to survive into a sustainable future, there is no real choice. If we can do this, then comparitavely it is my opinion (everything considered) the population problem will be a snap.

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Frank, as a matter of avoiding any possible misunderstanding, I wish to say that this post should not be construed as any sort of personal attack or me being a smartass but rather as a cause and message of hope for yourself and others. I may well have written a much shorter post but if I had done so then I would have felt that I had not adequately addressed the important question of population. Best regards mate.

I urge all to actively support the occupy movement as this may well be the lab from which a sustainable and truly fulfilling future may be born, with business as usual being collectively suicidal.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Mycot

[Mycot]

A bit of light fun stuff.

A hilarious and inspiring essay by Russell Brand on #Occupy Wall Street.

#occupy

Also Occupy Wall Street: When Music Stars Invade

Edited November 1, 2011 by Mycot

[Francois le Danque]

you seem to be respectful of other's opinions, mycot, so i feel no compunction in saying that russel brand is one of my least favourite people in the entire world, so i doubt i will be reading anything by him. does he replace all his THs with Fs when he writes? awful, awful man...

[Mycot]

I really know next to nothing about the man. I haven't even got round to veiwing any of his stuff.

I did however very much enjoy his essay.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Mycot

[Mycot]

After the police actions in Melbourne and Sydney, Occupy Brisbane has been the latest target to be harrassed.

We must not allow freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and right to protest be repressed and curtailed.

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A significant day for the movement this Saturday especially for Sydney. Yep, its Guy Fawkes Day.

Occupy Sydney will continue their protest this Saturday with a two thousand strong march through the city.

The group is scheduled to meet at the Sydney Town Hall at midday for speeches then march to Wynyard and Martin Place.

The rally will take place on the same day as the British celebration Guy Fawkes Day.

The tradition dates back to the burning of Guy Fawkes dummies on bonfires to commemorate the failed attempt by Fawkes to blow up the House of Lords – an act of rebellion against the British Government.

Ms Theresia said the date is a “neat coincidence” and that the rally will be held on Saturday as it’s a convenient time for the movement.

Occupy Sydney

Edited November 3, 2011 by Mycot

[Mycot]

An update. This past week has seen no lack of police harrassment of the Australian protests in Australian cities.

The Australian protesters are not letting up and I commend them on their courage and resilience.

This Saturday at 3.00pm Occupy Sydney are holding an occupicnic at Hyde Park. Bring picnic stuff.

Up until very recently I had little idea that Joe Rogan was more than my favorite MMA sports commentator.

He's made a few pieces on the occupy movement(all worth checking out) of which the following is my favorite. Inspirational.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6nzi0h0nuc

A rather shocking vid on political corruption(a little US orientated but by no means confined to that nation).

 

 

Edited November 10, 2011 by Mycot

[TheExplorer]

Up until very recently I had little idea that Joe Rogan was more than my favorite MMA sports commentator.

Joe Rogan is also very outspoken about his use, and the benefits, of DMT. He even has his own isolation chamber/flotation tank in his house.

/derail

[Distracted]

Occupy Adelaide is being evicted from Hindmarsh square at 3pm today. They're calling on all bodies to present themselves at 2:30 and join the party.

[Slybacon]

 

[Francois le Danque]

lol i love the music..

[niggles]

see what they did to those lovable tent monsters?

 

[Francois le Danque]

wtf?? then they just walk off. what tha fack man.

[Mycot]

wtf?? then they just walk off. what tha fack man.

 

Exactly. This young girl was committing no crime and was therefore not arrested and charged.

Instead she was sexually assaulted on a whim, no escuse and totally unnecessary. I am absolutely disgusted.

Not one of these cowardly scum had the balls to stand up to wrongdoing.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Mycot

[Mycot]

OK this is a late entry but with so many developments occuring at a rapid pace at various occupy locations around the world it can be difficult to keep on top of things.

Anyway tomorrow 10th Dec is World Human Rights day with gatherings across the country.

As part of World Human Rights Day, Occupy Melbourne is calling for Occupy protesters around the world to wear their tents for Human Rights.

In Melbourne, Occupiers will gather from 1pm at Flagstaff Gardens.

A time to bring greater awareness to Human Rights while we still supposedly have some.

Besides being in our own interest, I,m sure the occupiers who have been fighting for us all will appeciate the support.

An interesting article elucidating the global financial situation and why we should be concerned for our Human Rights. Comments on the article also good.

Global Rebellion: The Coming Chaos?

[Mycot]

News update. World Human rights Day was a success for Australian occupiers with some cool vids on the Sydney and Melbourne actions on U-tube.

Time magazine has named "The Protester" as Person of the Year 2011 so for all who protested a feather in your caps.

Police in Auckland New Zealand submit evidence in court supporting the Occupy movement. Although police have at times been friendly to occupiers and recognized their duty to serve and protect this is the furthest I've heard of police taking things. About time the police joined we the people.

Taking A Stand!! Auckland Police REFUSE City Council Members Request to Remove Protestors

[2Deep2Handle]

Great to see 7Baz...and every single one of your points / thoughts are exactly the root of all our problems. These are the exact same i deals i would most certainly peacefully protest against. Next time your jumping around with OCCUPY, let us know and ill make an effort to get up there with you. On the note of the sign. Do it! and if it wont all fit, make a bigger one and ill help you hold it.....fuck it...just make it like 12x 4 foot and a bunch of us will hold it!