Coleus blumei

[planthelper]

One quote above shows that in a test only 1/3 of the people who smoked it reported any effects, are we to believe that some active strains are only active in some people? How do you explain this?

 

that's actualy not that uncommon, when people use a substance for the first time.

it happend for example a lot with salvia div. even pot doesn't work for some people much the 1st time round.

aswell, maybe people experience negative tolerance towards this plant's activas.

salvia divinorum, is one of those negative tolerance plants....

btw, years ago when i lived close to byron bay, some kid's told me that when they have no pot, they sometimes went into nature, and tried out lot's of different plants, by pyrolising. and you guessed it, the often claimed to get effects from almost anything!!!!!

Edited November 25, 2011 by planthelper

[Gunter]

That makes sense, but when i first tried pot it was very very strong, the first time i tried salvia i experienced ego loss, i don't actually know anyone first hand who didn't feel anything from those, but i have read that some people don't feel it the first time...

I too know people who would smoke random things and claim to feel effects from pretty much everything they tried, but i can't say that i count this as indication that what they tried is a psychedelic. Smoke of any type seems to be somewhat psychoactive, and if you take something that gets you high with something that doesn't, you will still get high, even if the effects are different than when you take the thing that gets you high by itself, it doesn't mean that what is happening is true synergy, does it?

It isn't like changa in this way.

it is interesting, many smoked things that seem to have an effect do not have a dose dependent relationship upon their activity, but this is not true for most things regarded as true psychoactives or psychedelics, increase the dose with them and you can end up becoming totally overwhelmed, this is true for Salvia and cannabis, but has this been demonstrated for Coleus?

Edited November 25, 2011 by Gunter

[phyllode]

planthelper wrote:

btw, years ago when i lived close to byron bay, some kid's told me that when they have no pot, they sometimes went into nature, and tried out lot's of different plants, by pyrolising. and you guessed it, the often claimed to get effects from almost anything!!!!!

Maybe everyone's getting off on the carbon monoxide, or there are a lot of mild psychoactives out there.

Gunter wrote:

I know harmala alkaloids are highly active, however this action is not due to their MAOI effects

Can you demonstrate the hard science for this? The change in tryptamine and other compound re-uptake due to the inhibition is enough to explain effects.

PS I do not like hypericin, and it has hints of non-reversable MAOI activity, but if you vaporize more than 30-50mg weight if the pure oil you won't quite be seeing things the same. But after-effects may linger for more than 24 hours.

Would we expect all these Coleis blumeis to have the same chemical composition? On colour alone they clearly don't.

Edited November 25, 2011 by phyllode

[Gunter]

Can you demonstrate the hard science for this? The change in tryptamine and other compound re-uptake due to the inhibition is enough to explain effects.

It isn't really enough to explain it as that numerous MAOI totally lack the action of the harmala alkaloids.

If compounds and chemicals that are MAOIs cannot replicate the effects of harmine as a psychoactive, for example, then the idea that the psychoactive effects of harmine are due to MAO-inhibition becomes untenable. This is a complex topic and not worth delving into here, but the information is out there. It has a lot to do with the very recent model of psychedelic action that shows that the 5HT2a receptor alone does not result in psychedelic activity, but when the NMDA receptor affecting glutamic acid is affected along with the 5HT2a receptor then psychedelic effects occur, by blocking either receptor those effects can be stopped or prevented. Again that is a rather detailed topic to get into in this thread.

PS I do not like hypericin, and it has hints of non-reversable MAOI activity, but if you vaporize more than 30-50mg weight if the pure oil you won't quite be seeing things the same. But after-effects may linger for more than 24 hours.

So you are saying the active dose is 30-50mg vaporized? do you have any trip reports you can link to?

Would we expect all these Coleis blumeis to have the same chemical composition? On colour alone they clearly don't.

 

There is no doubt they vary, but they should also all fall along the same lines, for example the study that found Rosmarinic acid found that the content varied, but they did not find that any specimens lacking it. So the idea that there is one strain out there that is psychedelic is a fun notion to play around with, but what evidence for it is there?

Can you link to a report showing a dose dependent relationship for coleus and a psychedelic effect?

Can you find evidence of coleus causing psychedelic effects like CEV's or OEV's in a reliable way?

It seems like wishful thinking to try and say that the inability of hundreds of years of use and decades of scientific study to indicate psychedelic activity is due to variation.

All of the effects reported in any reliable manner for coleus match the activity of Rosmarinic acid. So what are you saying that this unknown strain does? What are the effects? it seems very speculative to assert that variation can explain the action that is clearly is unfounded; that it was used as a psychedelic/intoxicant/visionary plant.

So at what point did this plant become a psychedelic? Wasson, Hoffman, Schultes... not one of these men ever wrote that it was a psychedelic and as mentioned previously Siebert could find no evidence that the use of the plant was authentic.

What is clear is that Wasson mentioned he received some mixed information, and while the scientific community proceeded carefully, the online community has inflated this mixed information into a myth of massive proportions. When i spoke with the editor of the ER about this plant first hand he reported that it was indeed active but not psychedelic or traditionally used.

Please give actual details, accounts etc, this would be nice to have for Coleus, as well as hypericin. The claim that hypericin is visionary is interesting when all you say is that things will be seen differently, that seems very vague. I have seen reports on the intravenous injection of 30+ mg of hypericin and the effects that resulted and there was no report of visionary activity... did they have the wrong strain of hypericin?

i know you clearly consider yourself well informed, but you state that Hypericin is an MAOI, however the wikipedia entry for the molecule contains the following information:

The crude extract of Hypericum is a weak inhibitor of MAO-A and MAO-B. Isolated hypericin does not display this activity, but does have some affinity for NMDA receptors. This points in the direction that other constituents are responsible for the MAOI effect.

Note that the extract is only a weak MAOI and the hypericin itself lacks this activity, it is not an MAOI, despite you saying it is. I can't say i am finding you to be well informed regarding a lot of what you have claimed here.

Note that NMDA receptor activity indicates that it could affect the metabolism of psychedelics and may be able to exert visionary effects because of this, however such effects cannot be the result of an action it lacks, namely MAOI properties.

The idea then that hypericin is potentially psychoactive is quite valid, though cases where large doses are taken are known and visionary activity is not reported. However you have given it as an example of an MAOI property having molecule, but this is not true, and you have said that the activity it has is due to this property it does not have.

I know you don't like me, you don't have to and I don't expect you to. I have no problem telling you, you are wrong about this, about hypericin being an MAOI. You keep sharing material that with only a tiny bit of investigation proves to be false, which makes me wonder how much you actually look into the claims you are making. I understand why you do not provide references or details in general now.

Argue anything you want, but i no longer view you as a credible source of information.

I did find accounts where extract of hypericum did cause hallucinations in some few cases and it is known to aggravate psychosis in schizophrenics. I have yet to find this for hypericin by itself, but given the known action it has this is not unreasonable to expect in at least some people. It certainly should impact the effects of classic psychedelics like DMT and LSD, possibly potentiating effects, but possibly leading to unpleasant effects as well. Interesting molecule, but not an MAOI. i am even finding evidence that it (saint johns wort/hypericum) decreases the effects of classic psychedelics, as opposed to increasing them... it also has caused serotonin syndrome by itself and seizures in combination with MDMA

Edited November 25, 2011 by Gunter

[phyllode]

What's your problem? This is a web site in which people send in (sure, unverifiable) activity reports. You start demanding information you in many cases aren't going to get. Can't you read between lines.

And, basically, in your continuing contortions you end up twisting points, one being that because a substance is said to have eg 'anti-oxidant' properties, does not mean that this is all it does. McKenna et al 1984 have proposed ant-oxidants as MAO inhibitors. I have extensive experience with hypericin, you read wikipedia. One recent study suggested it wasn't an MAOI. Whatever it's action, it is active. Until recently it was standardly believed to be an MAOI, and I am getting on a bit.

Try some or take your attitude to the tip where it belongs. You seem like an 'armchair ethnobotanist'.

You use arguments against Coleus which I briefly try to point out are not entirely relevant or definite, and you get stuck on each one. You cut down everyones' coleus information like you are an authority, and just diminish any excitement and joy of those who believe they have found effects, with the most second-hand and generalised of arguments.

I have no interest in trying to prove credibility to you. You deserve a big dose of hypericin.

Edited November 25, 2011 by phyllode

[Gunter]

I have extensive experience with hypericin, you read wikipedia. One recent study suggested it wasn't an MAOI. Whatever it's action, it is active. Until recently it was standardly believed to be an MAOI,

 

i also read peer reviewed journals, books, and speak with authorities in the field.

You believe that your personal experience is more valid than a peer reviewed study with regard to things like MAOI activity?

You have not shared any specific info on the activity of hypericin, you just say some vauge words and don't even look up the science behind what you say. A simple search would have informed you that you were wrong. You gave hypericin as an example of an MAOI being active, that is clearly not true. You say that until recently it was thought to be an MAOI? i can find papers over 10 years old that say otherwise.

, one being that because a substance is said to have eg 'anti-oxidant' properties, does not mean that this is all it does.

You think i said somewhere that if a substance has a property that is all it does? Did you not read what i said about the action of Harmala alkaloids? here it is again:

they interact with GABA, have SSRI properties and affect glutamic acid.

You share false information that is easily investigated and argue that your example is valid because you have experience with a molecule? You said it was what it was not, that is plain as day wrong. I noted that hypericin was active, did not say it wasn't, but i also note that large doses of it do not consistently prove visionary. It is not an MAOI and your example of it being an MAOI that is visionary is bunk.

I noted numerous effects for a single molecule and you think i am saying that a single property is all a molecule has?

Lets review a bit more of what you have to say here:

McKenna et al 1984 have proposed anti-oxidants as MAO inhibitors

and you said this:

If you believe most rMAOIs (above a dosage) are not psychoactive, you haven't tried them or come from another planet. That is ridiculously ludicrous.

and this:

Anti-oxidants can be MAOIs can be psychoactive etc.

You really think that anti-oxidants are psychoactive?

That anti-oxidant=MAOI=psychoactive?

It is cute that you think you know what you are talking about, like with hypericin being an MAOI, clearly you are right, i am not from the same planet as you.

There has been data on hypericum and hypericin relative to MAOI effects for more than 10 years that shows that it (hypericin) is not an MAOI and that hypericum extract is only a weak MAOI.

Not:

One recent study suggested it wasn't an MAOI.

there are studies over 10 years old showing this, not a just one, why don't you do some real research before you make such claims?

It must be nice to be so clever that you can ignore scientific evidence in favor of your own theories.

go ahead and make your claims that you can't back up, start rumors that you won't provide details for, like with the ER article with coleus and harmala, or with the hypericin being an MAOI...

for all i know you are Teotz playing the devils advocate for fun

Edited November 25, 2011 by Gunter

[PowerfulMedicine]

coleus=chamomile=psychedelic? that is the best we have so far?

what kind of standard are you guys holding yourself to for this?

It seems pretty low.

With chamomile the active ingredient is known. The effects and doses are consistent among almost all users, and the sedative action has been proven in replicated studies.

I'd love to see this for coleus.

 

I think that I might not have been totally clear about the whole coleus to chamomile comparison. I am not saying that I find coleus to be of similar strength to chamomile or that chamomile is psychedelic. I find coleus to be a superior sedative and with other effects. I will refrain from calling coleus psychedelic, as it may not effect the 5HT receptors like the classic psychedelics, but I will say that it causes mild but notable visual distortions and shifts in perception and thought processes. I made the comparison to illustrate that something can be mildly psychoactive without being incessantly called placebo or suggestion.

On a side note, chamomile presents another interesting discussion. There are reports that chamomile is psychedelic in large quantities, and even stranger is that it becomes distinctly stimulant. You probably wouldn't believe this at all if all that was presenter were some accounts from people on the internet. But you might be more inclined to believe these claims if you knew that chamomile contains apigenin which is an NMDA antagonist and the stimulant action has been theoretically linked (by people on the internet of course) to overloading a specific enzyme that metabolizes another compound called chamazulene, preventing the sedating metabolite from forming. I have actually tried this and can confirm that making a tea out of and eating 20 grams of german chamomile flowers will cause stimulant effects among other more subjective effects that I will not elaborate on, but they did have a dissociative psychedelic tint. There are other reports if you don't believe me. So it could be argued that chamomile is "psychedelic".

I bring this up to show how little we really know about psychoactive plants. I will be the first to say that scientific evidence is always the best evidence of psychoactivity, but we shouldn't dismiss amateur bioassays. Remember that there was a time when every active plant was unknown to science.

Why shouldn't these reports be credible? Is there much to be gained from convincing any one that coleus is active if it isn't? Also, the claim that our reports are placebo or what ever are just as unscientific as anything else. What conclusive scientific evidence is there that coleus is not active? Contradictory reports are not conclusive evidence.

We should use these claims as the basis for more research. What we should focus on is replicating the positive results presented in this thread and finding more reports about the activity of this plant. Sadly this is an inopportune time to do this for many people, myself included, since the weather in the northern hemisphere has gotten colder and all my plants are dead for the winter.

[zelly]

Sure would be a bummer to see this thread moved to the degenerated threads forum.

Why dontcha ya'll take a chill pill & go smoke a kg or two of Coleus blumei & then post your results??

[dionysus]

i once read a study which showed the longer an argument went on, the more likely it would be likened to nazi germany and/or hitler. after reading through this thread (a quite a few others) i think for the corroboree the longer an argument goes on the more likely it will be likened to teotzlcoatl lol.

in seriousness, though, the argument has brought forward a lot of (off-topic) information that ive found very interesting, however i think a lot of your argument could have been avoided by reading posts more thoroughly.

@ gunter. people are no longer arguing that there has been traditional visionary use nor that the plant is native to the americas, simply that it both appears to have arrived on the continent pre-conquest (sources?) and the coleus has proven active in their OWN trials (all of the 'psychedelic' reports come from second hand reports. this supports the chemical analyses you put forward.

@ every one else. gunter has NOT denied activity of this plant (correct taxonomy of this one confuses me at the moment), he is only being skeptical of the 'psychedelic claims and is asking for references or a study on specific doses/effects of coleus, which it seems doesn't exist. he also seems to be working towards finding out why some say smoke, some say quid, some say tea etc and develop some consistency in reports so that they are presented in a more legitimate manner.

sorry if i have mis-interpereted anything, but it seemed there needed to be a little fresh opinion on these matters. either way, the information regarding both "coleus" and harmala has been very interesting, good luck to everyone doing more research.

[phyllode]

Gunter.Actually the hypiricin experiment was over ten years ago. But I will not engage you in argument as you seem to have issues. I will be seeing my friend with the active coleus soon, they would be known by Planthelper and Torsten if they want to message me for verification. I am looking forward to the experiment, and whatever the results, you won't believe me anyway.

And your over the top attempt to nit pick quick examples in a broader argument just ruins the joy of this thread to me. I'll shut up now, gladly.

[mutant]

needless to say that directly naysaying the reports people have chimed in to say in this thread is at least impolite and should I say insulting , in a way, Gunter..

anyways

Look, I will make it clearer

smoke some coleus leaf, alone or with tobacco to help it burn a bit. It's not a hot material, it tastes fine. IMO you can't say there is some distinct noticeable high, that cannot be attributed to smoking something or tobacco alone and / or placebo. Maybe there is something, but not enough to definately say there's something. AND, some people claim that it has potential for dream work like that.

now on another case

some dude has been smoking a pretty lousy pot for days in a row. a seasoned potsmoker, that is. Some day he has the bright idea to put coleus in the joint. the joint now shines! less sleepy, more stimulant.

I am to harvest some more, even though they're not in their best condition

gunter

do you find leonotis active?

do you find salvia coccinea and salvia splendens sedative?

[Gunter]

i have no clue about leonotis or other salvia species. A lot of the plants in that (mint) family are totally interesting in regard to chemistry and use though.

I believe you, mutant, that coleus can alter the cannabis experience, i always have. i believe you that some forms of it do this more than others, that makes sense to me. I just never saw this as proof that it was a psychedelic in action, or effect, or that it was in and of itself particularly psychoactive. So far no reports of intoxication seem to exist. It seems like a standardized coleus extract might even have potential as a daily herbal supplement or the foundation of a smoking mixture for those interested in that sort of thing.

I do not trust my own individual experiences to be credible reports of anything, the sample size is simply too small to trust my body and mind to be giving me a clear picture of activity. I believe in verification and replication as essential parts of a process for ascertaining subjective claims. I also believe in doing a lot of research, being autistic i have an ability to process and read a lot of information in a rather obsessive and exhaustive way.

i don't dismiss any experience or bioassay, however i do not regard them as authoritative, just indicative. When there are hundreds of examples or more of a specific result that is correlated with a specific method and substance, then i regard the result as demonstrated. I am in support of the activity and action of coleus being demonstrated in this manner.

The offer of 1000 cactus seeds to the person who sets up a decent Coleus experiment still stands.

I have plans to work with the species further in terms of the rosmarinic acid content, which i find fascinating. I wish to compare the action of other plants known to have this chemical to Coleus, including in terms of what Mutant reports regarding cannabis.

i never claimed that the reported effects were placebo, i noted that placebo is often stronger than the effects being reported for coleus, for example placebo alcohol intoxication causes demonstrable physiological intoxication, this intoxication is not pretend or imaginary, despite being a physiological/somatic manifestation of expectation. It seems to my that in regard to my own experiences my expectations of action (or inaction) compromise my objectivity.

I am well aware that we need tests involving individuals who do not know what to expect, the moment they ingest something with the intention of a psychoactive experience they become unable to rule out placebo, the exception being things they have had, for example if you give fake LSD to someone who has never had LSD, they are likely to have a trip of sorts, but if you give fake LSD to someone who has had LSD they will then be able to distinguish the real from the false.

The issue with regards to coleus here then is that many contradictory accounts exist, however there seems to be no claim from anyone who has tried both coleus and psychedelics that coleus is anything like a psychedelic, unless they are talking about extremely low doses.

There has yet to be a demonstration of a dose dependent relationship for coleus and a specific activity. If in concert with substance X coleus is a synergistic stimulant, will 2X the amount of coleus result in increased stimulant activity? If tea of 140 leaves results in anxiolytic action, will 300 leaves result in more pronounced action? What is the lowest dose that can be combined with cannabis and result in synergy? How much is too little? How much is too much?

i agree that contradictory reports are inconclusive, i have been saying that for some time now and it seems that a few people in this thread have been arguing against just that.

[dionysus]

i notice that rosmarinic acid reacts poorly with heat which makes hot/boiling water teas not worth much and some people have suggested smoking might degrade the same compound, also i notice that diterpenes have been isolated from a variety of "coleus". perhaps the variation in reported effects comes from those who experience rosmarinic acid effects and those who experience diterpene effects. i have read that lighter/flame temperature and such things were pretty important in the early days of western salvia d to get noticeable effects so perhaps a similar variable is to blame for the inconsistency here.

Mutant, which variety of lighter do you use to light the coleus? direct flame or not? would a vapourizer be more suited to the task? have you smoked through a water filtered pipe for the same effects?

[Gunter]

lemon balm is a plant that like coleus is a decent source of RA:

http://psychoactiveherbs.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=146

http://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/359981-smoke-lemon-balm.html

Reportedly, when chewed as a quid or brewed into a tea it possesses a seemingly paradoxical mixture of effects; somewhat like kava...of apparently both stimulation and calming without mental fogging.

I found a plant in my backyard its called lemon balm i smoked it made me relaxed and calm very nice.

then i mixed it with weed and it made my weed taste like lemon and added a lil kick to it.

The effects are worth contrasting and comparing to coleus.

[dionysus]

lemon balm is a plant that like coleus is a decent source of RA:

http://psychoactiveherbs.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=146

http://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/359981-smoke-lemon-balm.html

The effects are worth contrasting and comparing to coleus.

 

the current offer in the free ethnohobotanicals thread includes lemon balm. if anyone interested has anything to offer in it's place then this would be a chance to compare.

edit: typo

Edited November 26, 2011 by dionysus

[PowerfulMedicine]

There has yet to be a demonstration of a dose dependent relationship for coleus and a specific activity. If in concert with substance X coleus is a synergistic stimulant, will 2X the amount of coleus result in increased stimulant activity? If tea of 140 leaves results in anxiolytic action, will 300 leaves result in more pronounced action? What is the lowest dose that can be combined with cannabis and result in synergy? How much is too little? How much is too much?

 

I am pretty sure that I mentioned a dose dependent relationship in my report, but it was a lot of info to write down and I might not have been specific enough.

In the lowest dose that I have tried, 50 leaves, there was only a mild sedative effect and nothing remotely visual or "psychedelic". At 100 leaves the sedation increases and there are slight visual effects and a more trippy feeling. At about 150 leaves, there is moderate sedation, an increase in the visual aspects especially halos around lights, and a more pronounced effect on thought processes (trippy feeling). I have only tried 200 leaves once about a year ago so my memory of it is not very good, but I don't remember it being particularly stronger than 150 leaves. I would have to try this dose again to be sure of its relative strength, but this is a lot of material to ingest and I probably won't be able to try this until next spring or summer.

[CβL]

I know quite a few friends who are unable to get effects from Salvia D, which after observation seems to be that they are using a smoking technique from cigarettes, rather than a marijuana technique. That and they are about as sensitive as 2x4s with regards to effect profiles. But then I also know people who tend to blow things out of proportion ("OMG, 4 mushrooms and I was COMPLETELY wasted"). When asked to describe how they were "wasted", they're usually unable to elaborate much and don't seem to describe any separation of throught processes, or anything exotic apart from colour perception changing and "it feels different".

I will one day find a few Coleus B. plants and create a tea from them. I'm on the sensitive side with regards to psychedelic substances, so should be able to quickly weed out dud plants.

Lastly, from what I've read of the reports (not many lately), no-one has gauged their pupil size (correct me if I'm wrong). This would be the first thing I would check, as it can usually account 100% for mild psychedelic action, or be an indicator of it. This can fully explain the light effects and "halos".

[PowerfulMedicine]

Lastly, from what I've read of the reports (not many lately), no-one has gauged their pupil size (correct me if I'm wrong). This would be the first thing I would check, as it can usually account 100% for mild psychedelic action, or be an indicator of it. This can fully explain the light effects and "halos".

 

I actually have noted this but didn't want to add it to my report because it didn't seem relevant. From my experience, there is not much pupil dilation while in lighted environments, but my pupils did look larger than usual in low light with doses of 100+ leaves. I know that the pupils naturally dilate in low light conditions, but only so much. On coleus, my pupils are slightly larger than they should have been in low light.

My pupils also appeared to be more responsive. I tested this by looking in the mirror in a fully lit room. I then turned the light off. The room became only bright enough to make out the size of my pupils. While not under the influence of any substance, there is a lag time between constricted and dilated pupils. On coleus, my pupils expand very rapidly, almost at the same moment that I turn out the lights.

[Moses]

So the idea that there is one strain out there that is psychedelic is a fun notion to play around with, but what evidence for it is there?

 

as the plant has mainly been propagated by the nursery industry wouldnt it be possible that the first plants propagated were from a lower strength plant(ala ditch weed) and have had the actives bred out of them and most subsequent purchases have been of nursery plants so are devoid of sufficient levels of actives?

when i first heard of this plant (15?)years ago this was the first thing i considered when trying to find suitable material to try(which i have never done)because any literature i read back then said it was a highly hybridised plant bred specifically for its leaf pattern/colour so i surmised anything i found at local nurseries or young gardens would be crap i needed to find a.... for want of a better term "historical" garden that had an old original plant.

i can honestly say i have never seen a tall variety such as mutants in gardens or nurseries here in South Australia though my gf does remember her nanna had very large plants in New South Wales(which she's only just told me )seems the short clump variety is the preferred form by the horticultural industry and has been for possibly decades so the gene pool could be really polluted.

great read so far.

oh and i think it's got this far cos teotz is banned at the moment his/her exuberance certainly would have de-railed this by now.

[mutant]

Gunter, that's a lot better man, several of your previous posts read like totally dismissive of any positive report.

i believe you that some forms of it do this more than others, that makes sense to me.

note that I only assumed this as I saw many people reporting null activity, while I have only experimented with the tall variety which is positive and looks like what is depicted in books , also 'tall plants' from Java are mentioned in the initial reports on oral activity. Also this kind of plant makes larger, fatter leaves, possibly hairier too. Older leaves are much fatter and hairier

then...

So far no reports of intoxication seem to exist

what are you talking about?

powerfulMedicine's report is such a report.

you know, most people would ingest up to to 3-4 grams of dried amanita muscaria [caps and stems] and not feel anything really noticeable, even though they would probably be a bit toned up, and maybe a bit more talkative and content, not even realising it.

also about visual coleus, and action.

I did not find it sedative, but the contrary. it is more visual, like a very very small psilocybin dose minus the euphoria and stimulation. it has effect on vision.

You know, when you have smoked 2-3 joints of a sleepy, brown crystal pot, and your eyes are semi-closed and the perception of vision is a bit slow? smoking a joint with a coleus would stim you up a bit, open up the eyes a bit, make you a bit more alert, less stoned-couch effect, even wake you up a bit.

The 'traditional' joint smoked here is half tobacco half bud. So I am talking about replacing half of that tobacco with coleus leaf. so coleus leaf equals 1/2 of the bud portion. this is about small leaves or one medium. you can skip the tobacco and vape this.

I have tried to vape some crude extract I had made but with no impressive results. I haven't tried to use torch lighter to do the leaf. maybe it's a good hint

also interesting is smoking a couple of leaf before hand, clear-headed, then smoking a small joint of bud. the effect is definately through synergy.

I believe we should be searching into spreading the tall variety in those interested and trying to create some extract...

Edited November 26, 2011 by mutant

[Gunter]

I think replication seems to be an ideal way to allow confirmation and conclusion, but what about negative tests in the same populations as positive tests regarding a given sample?

Could coleus be more active in some people and less than others in a non-medicinal way?

what if it won't work in some but will in others?

[Bretloth]

I picked up a coleus kong from bunnings a while back, seems to be a cultivation product of blumei. Tried smoking some and did something, probably placebo but seemed to enhance colour appreciattion, but that was it. Anyone else worked with this plant?

Edited November 27, 2011 by Bretloth

[mutant]

Gunter it is a known that some people will feel some stuff easier than others.

Bret, colour appreciation, yeah, maybe an altered focus too.

That looks similar, Bret, even though I cannot see any stems and stem habit. You have to check it is the fat stem variety. It will become branchy if the tip terminates of it flowers, but given a decent root space the branches will fatten up pretty quickly. It is recommended to cut the flowers early on so as it grows more green growth. When it stops the green growth, let it flower. Cuttings take very easily too, it pays to try to create a biggy, tall one, placed in a biggy pot.

whatever the case, the leaves are quite similar

Edited November 27, 2011 by mutant

[Bretloth]

I've got it in the ground now, that pic is from about a year ago. Grows fat stems. Just starting to put on alot of growth now with the warmer weather, perking up again nicely. Is rather frost tolerant, only had a few, but survived them fine outside, died back but pulled through. Is in a protected spot between two trees now, well shaded all day. Has plenty of space so should be going nutz soon. Will give it another go this season, see what happens.

P.S; Would be happy to donate a bunch of herbage to anyone who kicks ass at extractions and wants to give it a go, see what a 20 X does. Let me know.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Bretloth

[PowerfulMedicine]

Could coleus be more active in some people and less than others in a non-medicinal way?

what if it won't work in some but will in others?

 

This is definitely possible. The very large quantity of leaves needed to make an active tea mean that if some one had a really high natural tolerance to what ever the actives are then they may need 200 or more leaves to feel threshold effects that I get from 50 leaves. You have to consider that everyone's reaction will differ to some extent. For instance, a dose of 500 heavenly blue morning glory seeds is only enough to cause mild visuals for me but is a strong dose for many people.

There is also a possibility that the effects are due to some metabolite that forms due to interactions with specific enzymes. This is how the actives in nutmeg and calamus work. If some one does not have enough of the specific enzymes needed or too much of some other unnecessary enzymes then they may never get effects from it without modifying their enzymes.

This may or may not apply to coleus. It is too early to tell and I think that preparation and the specific variety are more important at this point.