The trick to keeping Syrian Rue seedlings alive

[apothecary]

Before I planted any of the Peganum harmala seeds I recieved, I did a crapload of trawling here and EBA.

I found out that a lot of people seem to have issues getting the plant past seedling stage. As mine are just past there, I thought I'd tell you guys how I managed to do it.

The trick to keeping it going is to not overwater, and not underwater. How the fuck can you tell, you say?

I've noticed that as the water levels drop, the main stem between soil and cotyldons begins to lean slightly. This leaning is an almost perfect indicator of water levels.

So, to put it simply, don't water until that stem is leaning very closely against the soil, then soak! Good draining soil is essential, because if the soil surface is wet while the stem is leaning against it, it may encourage rot.

[ergoamide]

thanks apoth i was just about to start soem seedlings so that will help. im finally gettin my own lil ethno garden started

[mescalito]

Yasee that's were I got it wrong, when they start to bend I figured the little buggers were over hydrated

Make sure you take some piccy's Apoth and write up a growguide :D

[amanito]

I only have one syrian rue plant that is one year old. You have to let the surface always dry, give them water from beneath, just a bit now and then. Only seedlings need some more water. Rotten parts you have to cut of, if your plant seems totally wasted, don't throw it away, there can be new sprouts after some weeks/months. When it's totally wasted, just make the earth as wet as possible and play the waiting game .

Here you can see a plant that was totally wasted and i cut if of, made the earth ultra wet and after a few weeks it came back.

[apothecary]

amanito, I water from above, bottom watering annoys me. I can see how it's useful in some situations with very fragile plants, but nature doesn't do it that way...why should I?

In my opinion, Rue is a very hardy plant, people just treat it to nicely. I let my soil (not just the surface) dry out completely, then wait even longer before watering. You can water more when they are seedlings to simulate the rainy season but after that they need abuse instead of love.

[dracos6]

hey apoth how did you germinate yours?

i did one lot outside and had about 50/50 germination rate but they were extremely long and very thin stemmed and all ended up dying. i've been trying again under fluros for a few weeks but theres no action at all, any suggestions?

cheers

[Stonehenge]

They seem to really need sun. They will not thrive in the shade but want full sun. I have not worked with this one in a while and with the low cost of rue seed and the relative difficulty of growing it, I may not bother with it but good luck to those who are.

[psycho0]

what potting mixture did u use?

aaron

[Stonehenge]

I just used store bought mix with some perlite added.

[apothecary]

Stonehenge, I disagree...after germination mine spent about 2 weeks in a low sun area without issue.

And it can't be an issue with sunlight itself, because mine are currently thriving under fluorescents

[reptyle]

do u really think apoth, that water doesnt rise from under the plants to provide moisture in the wild ?

if so, i beg to differ.

bottom watering may take a tiny bit more effort than simply spraying something with the hose, prolly not tho,its pretty useful i reckon.

maybe if u try it first u will know if it works it or not...

[apothecary]

reptyle I don't disagree that various plants that tend to grow on riverbanks etc would be used to bottom watering and it is probably beneficial for some plants.

However, Rue is definitely not a riverbank plant, and (I may be wrong) I don't believe it gets bottom watered naturally.

I've bottom watered with plenty of plants, especially cacti seedlings, but like I said, I feel it's a matter of them needing it or not.

EDIT: dracos, sorry, I didn't see your post. I just put mine in potting mix about 10mm down, with bottom heat for ~18 hours a day. Misted the soil surface once or twice a day to keep moist.

[ 23. May 2005, 04:39: Message edited by: apothecary ]

[planthelper]

dear apo!

i believe you are too over enthusiastic about your rue plants. i have seen big ones dieing because of wet surface. watering from underneath is what i would recomand aswell, your theory about nature waters aswell from above, cannot be used in this case. rue plants damp of very easily unless you grow them where they grow wild in australia...

i never heard of anybody growing succsessfully rue in sydney, and you will be unfortunately no exception, specialy because you don't seem to understand this plant.

there is one simple way of growing rue, throw the seeds at highly drained freshly exposed soil as you find it at road building sites and than wait.

but i think, this would be illegal...

rue hates rich soil, so never fert her, unless minute and save amounts.

never water her from the top, as she is used to search for water.

if rue looks like shriveled up and dead, she is still alive underground, waiting for water, but if you water her without giving her a seasonaly break from water, she will die aswell.

bla, bla, bla...

apo don't take this as a personal thing,

i tried to not say a word, but now i had to because i don't agree with your statements.

even worse because of your excellent verbal skills you might convince the readers that your methode workxs, but i doubt it strongly.

you are very good in making things sound very good, but this is dangerous as most people would go for your opinion and not a mebers statement saying something like,

yo hav two water serian rue only very litle.

i hope you all get my drift.

[ 23. May 2005, 06:40: Message edited by: planthelper ]

[apothecary]

planthelper, I'm not offended in the slightest and because I know your background I am willing to accept your opinion with no grain of salt.

I don't get the difference between what you said and what I said though. You said highly drained soil with little water, and I said highly drained soil with little water. The only difference is that you advocate bottom watering, while I don't feel it's nescessary in this case.

All I've stated in my post was what was currently working for me, and both you and I know that verbal skill means little in the face of true knowledge.

So you might be right, and I may not understand this plant, I might not be able to grow this plant in Sydney, but how is one to understand the plant without growing it, and wouldn't it be cool if you were wrong and I managed to get one going?

EDIT: On that note does anyone know if Syrian Rue is self fertile?

[ 23. May 2005, 07:07: Message edited by: apothecary ]

[planthelper]

cool mon!

aswell you said how to keep seedlings alive and not how to grow them to maturety.

and i forgot to mention that low light could be dangerous, but is not if the area is well air circulated. but on generall terms low light eans more damping off, so i am with stoney.

your findings seem to represent the exeption to the broader rules about this plant.

anyway i wish you all the best with your rue seedlings.

i am only upset that you never asked me to marry you, lol.

all is well, bros.

i gained even more insight into my beeing, whith this exchange.

[ 23. May 2005, 07:21: Message edited by: planthelper ]

[spaced]

I've got one survivor that's been around for, gees, probably four or five years now. I had only the tiniest amount of seeds when I grew it and wanting to give them the best chance I could, I went down to the local hydro shop and was directed towards rockwool and some nitrogen based liquid fertiliser by the silver tongued salesperson - what a sucker. During germination I left them in a small hothouse I had knocked up out of clear plastic sheeting from the hardware store. They all succumbed to collar rot, but one survived despite this. It has never flowered or grown to any great size, but hey, its still my friend anyway.

[apothecary]

eehehe spaced, yeah it seems the hydroshop guys only answer to problems is high N fertiliser and a different growing medium

[Torsten]

rue plants can die back from humidity especially if this is coupled with precipitation. So, avoiding overhead watering would be a wise move especially when humidity is high. Also, fungal problems on the foliage are more likely during the cooler months especially autumn.

Apoth, desert plants get most of their water from the bottom and sometimes from dew at night. It may only rain every few weeks or months in arid regions so most plants have adapted by sucking water from deep down. This might be rainwater or it might be groundwater.

Any dew that settles on the plants at night would only be there for a few hours and would be dried up almost without fail by morning. if you only watered your plants if you could guarantee bright sunny and dry days then you probably won't have a problem with overhead watering.

personally I wouldn't bottom water because it makes the soil way to soggy. For plants like this I would water from above, but without getting the elaves wet. ie, run the water down the side of the pot.

Stoney - the interesting thng about growing rue is not only the seed. This is available freely overseas, but not so in australia. But even overseas you cannot get the root, which was analysed to be stronger than the seed. It may even provide for a better alkaloid profile.

[planthelper]

i know what you refering to tort, but bottom watering would still be my favorite,

just lets do it fast. "one quick dip" will avoid that the whole pottingmix gets too wet.