kindness Posted February 2, 2011 might be of interest to some. # 7:30 The Meth Epidemic Send to a friend # An investigation into how and why methamphetamine use has spiralled out of control and has become the fastest-growing drug abuse problem in the US. What started as a fad among West Coast motorcycle gangs in the 1970s has spread across the United States, and despite lawmakers' calls for action, the drug is now more potent and more destructive than ever - and having an appalling impact on individuals, families and communities. (From the US) (Documentary) (Rpt) PG CC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted February 2, 2011 wish i could watch it. i have many thoughts but my main suspicion is that more open, honest discussion about drugs might increase the level of responsibility of users, and obviously removing the exorbitant black-market price tag would reduce theft, prostitution, and similar profitable crimes (heck it would reduce the number of friendly cash loans that never get repaid). shit is scary to think; many people aren't good at rising to a difficult challenge, and self-control with such a potent drug is very difficult. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
migraineur Posted February 2, 2011 If you can't watch it then just download it. Go use isohunt or The Pirate Bay. If you type in 'National Geographic' then you'll find HEAPS of results for documentaries. If you are paranoid about being caught downloading stuff then use Peer Guardian and don't download the latest release movies unless you are using a private torrent. http://phoenixlabs.org/pg2/ If it's on SBS or ABC then you will be able to watch it online. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
etherealdrifter Posted February 2, 2011 wish i could watch it. i have many thoughts but my main suspicion is that more open, honest discussion about drugs might increase the level of responsibility of users, and obviously removing the exorbitant black-market price tag would reduce theft, prostitution, and similar profitable crimes (heck it would reduce the number of friendly cash loans that never get repaid). shit is scary to think; many people aren't good at rising to a difficult challenge, and self-control with such a potent drug is very difficult. "TI" u know what i agree. this shit boring drug ruled me for years and i never had to travel far to score foaf of o foaf testifies to this. more frank expressions of interest are warranted. peace ethdtr Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
random Posted February 2, 2011 yeah well personally i have seen/felt the effects that this street drug has had on loved ones and apart from the awesome sex and momentary niceities it can bring on, it also turns some people into monsters. So bringing the price of it down would completely ruin alot of peoples lives as it would mean some would abuse it more and subsequently abuse their loved ones more too. So meth can fuck off as far as i'm concerned, after all the damage i've seen it do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted February 2, 2011 that is right, but it's not going to fuck off and such a simple attitude (coming from you, who usually makes mind boggling intellectual posts!) doesn't help much. i used to have the 'speed sucks' mentality because of what it did to people close to me when i was younger, but i am an unusual person in many ways (most of us here are) and i find meth very, very, very useful, if you use it right. now i'm not saying i can handle it, there is a danger of falling into a trap every single time you use it, but it is POSSIBLE to use it and not get hooked, we of all people should know that. but yes, the average person who is pretty hedonistic to begin with should definitely stick to eating it (small amounts) but preferably stay away altogether. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C_T Posted February 2, 2011 any stim that lasts longer than the hours a normal person should be awake for, is just down right bad. If you need a stim, use a lower duration one. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Distracted Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Meth changes people like no other drug i've known. In person my cat has always been a very open person as far as the dialogue of drugs go. Whereever my cat would go he'd plop down all the drugs he had to show off and to share. My cat has never angered more people simply by showing off the latest meth he had on him that he had no intention of using. "Why the fuck are you showing me that?" Meth changes people and meth changes friends... I wish it didn't cause my cat has remained the same for some reason... I think it definately has it's uses... I just don't have any answer to the problems it creates as I can't really empathise with what people are going through I've watched so many meth documentaries... they all say the same boring story, if i wanted to see up close and personal devastation of people and their family I could go hang out with a select group of my friends :/ Edited February 2, 2011 by Distracted Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kindness Posted February 3, 2011 I found the documentary a pretty standard one sided affair. Drugs are bad mkay. Although the info re: manufacture and how it has kept going was kinda interesting and also the stuff about pharmaceutical companies refusing the sign for cold and flu tabs legislation that the U.S D.E.A wanted implemented 20 odd yrs ago. Still, I can't really take doco's which only show one side of a story re: drugs too seriously. They did not show any people who had used infrequently and remained unscathed, just the standard skinny faced people who have fucked up by using too much. I'd like to see more propaganda spread about alcohol misuse. Show some doco's where people lose their families, friends and eventually minds to the stuff. I mean the alcohol ad's on t.v. are often brilliant and funny and all but it is a pretty serious drug too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
random Posted February 3, 2011 ok well I was in a bad mood when I posted last night so apologies for my simplistic approach to this topic as was evident in my reply. My post was mainly in reference to the fact that making meth cheaper would impact negatively in so many ways that I don't believe it's a positive suggestion to be made. However I do realise that many people use recreational drugs in a restrained manner and indeed use the drug in a way so as to not necessarily impact badly on those around them. This I believe to be true and have seen it first hand. However the negative aspects that i've experienced by other users close to me outweighs the positive aspects of it in my opinion. i've never ingested methamphetamine so I can only 'say it how I see it'. Naturally sourced ephedra sounds to me to be a positive alternative and as a plant it seems to be an awesome example of medicine in its purest form. I'm not anti drugs, i'm all for nature providing us with everything we need. As for backyard lab made meth I believe its an impure toxic substance, and as such not conducive to one's spiritual or physical health. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted February 3, 2011 okay i get where you're coming from, and there's no need to apologise, lots of people seem to wish meth didn't exist. regarding the last though, it's all about how you use it. there are no drugs that are automatically good for your body and/or spirit, and meth isn't automatically bad for you. i honestly believe it can be a spiritual tool, i've experienced long term benefits from it both in my life circumstances and spiritual pracice, not simply because i took it, but because of how i used the experience. just my opinion, but i keep encountering this 'meth has no virtues as a drug' attitude and if that IS true, then it's true for many other drugs as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
etherealdrifter Posted February 3, 2011 hey meeka et al, all some of us are saying is that don't knock it until you've tried it. going on benders for days at a time - dancing nude in the garden and speaking to halalsoonations is par for the course. i ToTally understand your apprehension towards this substance as tolerance will grow with it's use and yes this leads to problems. As for availability vs cheaper price ...this is inevitable with such matters. generally speaking tho, it was (and probably still is) the choice for students needing to tweak extra hours into the day for uni/study whatever etc. When i was at uni in the late 80's, it was popular for its effects and most friends of mine used and forgot about it just as quickly. peace ethdtr Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C_T Posted February 3, 2011 i don't see anything seriously wrong with standard amphetamine, the problem i personally see is meth's 1/2 life is just sooo long, it ends up fucking up the way you think. All due mostly i believe, because it totally screws your sleep/wake system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C_T Posted February 3, 2011 students use amphetamines, not methamphetamine... BIG DIFFERENCE!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted February 3, 2011 if they can get it i suppose. i read somewhere, something about people with ADD/ADHD, who use prescription amphetamine, can reduce the toxic effects of their medication by using prescription meth instead. was kinda hoping you'd answer my question CT, with some practical, attainable short-term stimulants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
etherealdrifter Posted February 3, 2011 students use amphetamines, not methamphetamine... BIG DIFFERENCE!!! not at the uni i attended.lol - it must be that they were all freaks.eh. drooling messes. and for sure.there's amaasive difference.dexy's and ritalin pale in comparison. whats ya point. i thought this was an open discussion not an exercise in damning others opinions. really, no-ones advocating its use. the debate is about the meth epidemic. i respect your opinions but no need to get heated about it man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
santiago Posted February 3, 2011 students generally use ritalin/dexamphetamine as the study tool, i dont see why they wouldnt use meth, if they used it at night to study for a test hopefully they dont have a test within the next few days because they will be stuffed mentally. alot of meth is scare stories, ecstacy is well known to kill the random person here and there for basically no other reason than pot luck (sorry i dont know the medical reason why) where as meth doesnt seem to have that random killing ability unless pre disposed with heart condition/stroke etc. personally i believe meth is a hundred times safer than e but all you hear is the lovey dovey nicey wifey stuff about e, then the trailer trash about meth, i believe its just the name..............say it 20 times METH METH METH METH METH METH METH METH METH blah blah blah............all it mainly is is a sinister sounding name. another thing ill say is i have had friends use it and i didnt even really twig on that they were using, however on e (and im not picking on e just using it for comparison) they are pretty much bumbling idiots who wanna dance to the beat of a drum, then 3 hours later they are at the opposite spectum of life and look like they wanna kill ya. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted February 3, 2011 does ecstasy kill? ecstasy tablets kill because they have other ingredients, i'm not sure if you can die as a direct result of any reasonable dose of mdma. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indigo264nm Posted February 3, 2011 i don't see anything seriously wrong with standard amphetamine, the problem i personally see is meth's 1/2 life is just sooo long, it ends up fucking up the way you think. All due mostly i believe, because it totally screws your sleep/wake system To tell you the truth I have an easier time sleeping after a fairly heavy evening on the pipes (as in up to 200mg the bomb shab) than after eating 5 dexxies. You reckon the half life is long but is the peak effects from consuming in a vapourised method of delivery is rather short, but eating it is a different kettle of fish. Methamph is known to have a heavy dopaminergic effect in comparison to d-amph, which in turn has much more of an adrenal effect. D-amph definitely is better for keeping you awake and focused whilst meth has a more recreational application I find - especially when it is consumed in a way that causes quicker effects such as vapourized or IV'd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C_T Posted February 3, 2011 guy's, you store your memories when you sleep, staying up all night studying is NOT productive... thats why they take amphetamines like dexamphetamine and not methamphetamine Thunder, i'm not here to spoon feed you, a simple google search will tell you all the stumulants with a 1/2 life of less than 12hrs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
migraineur Posted February 3, 2011 In regards to those amphetamine comments and students, there's a mass market for that at universities. Even people who are anti drug would take it because they thought it was all good because it was made by a pharmaceutical company in a clean lab. I pumped out many assignments at the last minute with the help of dex but felt fucking terrible afterwards and got horrid headaches/migraines. Even militaries around the world still use it. If I remember correctly then American pilots are given the option of using it for missions longer than 10 hours and the Brits use it too. I ripped this from Wikipedia: "The U.S. Air Force uses dextroamphetamine as one of its "go pills", given to pilots on long missions to help them remain focused and alert.[38][39][40][41] The Tarnak Farm incident was linked by media reports to the use of this drug on long term fatigued pilots. A military tribunal did not accept this explanation, citing the lack of similar incidents. Newer stimulant medications or awakeness promoting agents with fewer side effects, such as modafinil are being investigated and sometimes issued for this reason.[38] During the Vietnam War, Special Units of the US Military, such as MACV-SOG, were issued dextroamphetamine tablets. Due to the threat of misuse, these tablets were given to the Commanding Officer of the unit, and given out when needed.[42]" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
random Posted February 3, 2011 ThunderIdeal indeed I did not say I wish meth didn't exist, what I do wish is that the problems it causes by those who react badly when coming down off the experience (plus the financial burden it creates) would cease to exist e.g fuck off. If it was not responsible for causing such misery to me personally I wouldn't have even offered my alternative perspective on the negative aspects of it, considering some posts here are hailing its benefits. Indeed I agree there are a few appealing aspects to using meth but its not a path I wish to go down anytime soon. I respect your right to ingest any drug/substance you desire, but generally I base my opinions on my own experience, not scare stories promoted by the anti drug brigade or media and as such from what i've seen, I don't like it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kindness Posted February 3, 2011 Seems much cleaner to me that the old yellowy brown shit known as speed. I'd like to add something more intelligent to this discussion than that but it has kinda all been said. It messes a lot of people up. Perhaps psychosis caused by amph' use is worse than that of ganja or depression from alcohol but are the long term effects really any different on those persons and those around them? Someone majorly out of it on any amph' staring into my head and babbling shit in an aggressive way scares me to the very same degree as a very drunk person stumbling all over the place being aggressive. Sure it can be a damaging drug and people should probably sick to cocaine or something. Pity we aren't closer to south america. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
