Pressure Cooker - necessary?

[mycophage]

I'm interested to hear from people who've had experience with steam sterilisation without a pressure cooker, especially if they've also tried using a PC.

What has your experience with contams been using the two methods? A PC is the single most expensive ingredient in a PF setup, and if I buy one I'm inclined to go all out and get a good one - so I'm trying to ascertain whether it's worthwhile before dropping the coin.

[migraineur]

I have not used the water bath method but you can get a Presto pressure cooker from Amazon.com delivered to your door cheaply. As of late last year you could get a 23 quart Presto delivered to your door for just under $110 AUS. If you get a 21 quart All American from Amazon.com then it will last you a life time. A pressure cooker will make life a lot easier. You can also use it for making liquid cultures, sterilising your utensils, sterilising soil and making your own pasta sauces or canning your own fish.

[Magicdirt]

Don't skimp on the sterilisation, just get one.

Get a big bastard too, small PC's are a pain in the arse.

PF tek is OK but for a little bit more effort you could do grains and spawn them to a bulk substrate and get 10 times the yield or more.

[poisonshroom]

If you are doing anything other than PF Tek (brown rice flower cakes) then you will need a pressure cooker otherwise the substrate wont sterilize completely. If you are only doing pf though the steam sterilization method will work fine and a pressure cooker is a bit of an overkill.

But as migraineur mentioned, a pressure cooker is useful for plenty of other things, so it probably wont be a waste of money, and it means you can use grains and other things for spawn if you choose to after you've had enough of the PF Tek

[NSF]

If you are doing anything other than PF Tek (brown rice flower cakes) then you will need a pressure cooker otherwise the substrate wont sterilize completely. If you are only doing pf though the steam sterilization method will work fine and a pressure cooker is a bit of an overkill.

But as migraineur mentioned, a pressure cooker is useful for plenty of other things, so it probably wont be a waste of money, and it means you can use grains and other things for spawn if you choose to after you've had enough of the PF Tek

 

Well I think this makes my decision on PC a clear one, although I won't be getting a PC (sort of) I'll be getting a Pressure Steriliser, an All American one. But...I hear you can convert an All American Pressure cooker to a steriliser. Has anyone done this successfully? Is there much to it?

Oh and what's the best place/price that anyone has found an All American for (including shipping)? Is it worth getting the electric one? Just plug it in and stress less?

Edited January 31, 2011 by NSF

[migraineur]

www.amazon.com has the best price for All American products, however, the company will only ship up to a certain weight/dimension to Australia. I think the biggest pressure cooker you can buy and have sent here is an All American 921. However, you could get it delivered to a freight forwarder for free in the USA and then have it sent to AUS from there. I am not sure how much the freight forwarder will cost but there is a number of them that will do it for you.

You don't really need a steriliser, man. An All American 921 holds a decent amount and does the job fine. I have had no contamination with jars yet.

You can fit 19 pint jars and 7 quart jars in it according to Amazon, however, you can fit in two more quart jars at the top if you lay them down on their sides.

http://www.amazon.com/All-American-921-All-American-Pressure/dp/B00004S88Z/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1296480060&sr=8-1

[migraineur]

Dude, I just looked at the prices for All American Sterilisers and they're expensive! Amazon won't ship them outside the USA either. Don't waste your money on one of those unless you're a surgeon or something.

[punkin]

I have used both methods.

i have a 23quart Presto, a 50l homemade PC and a 160l steam rig.

PC's are by far the best option, the steam sterilising is extremley energy intensive, if i run for 8 hours my contam rate is around the 15-20% mark. That can be improved by running for twelve hours.

I use the same rig to generate the steam as i do for the 50l pc, and so the same energy (except an extra hour of full blast to bring the 40l of water to boil for steam.

I can easily fit ten, 1.8 kg grain bags in the 50l PC and it takes 3 hours to sterilize with a contam rate down under 5%.

The presto is ideal for jars and fits ten or so 1l jars, i don't think it can be beaten for price, you can get two of em for the price of an AA.

This is my steam rig, just ignore the stuff coming out of the lid, it's set up as a stripper still in this photo.

[mycophage]

Thanks everyone, great info.

I'm a bit hesitant about using the aluminium ones (includes the AA 921) for actual cooking, but for $130 it sounds like the Presto is the way to go for sterilization on a budget.

[NSF]

Thanks everyone, great info.

I'm a bit hesitant about using the aluminium ones (includes the AA 921) for actual cooking, but for $130 it sounds like the Presto is the way to go for sterilization on a budget.

 

That may be true, I still want that tank like construction of the AA though, that's just me.

I reckon punkin's versatile steriliser/pastueriser/still would have more than $130 worth of copper in the tubing alone! It's an impressive rig!

You do pose a good question though...when people have cooked with a pressure cooker do you put the bird/animal into a dish and on top of the trivet? Then some water in the bottom of the PC to steam it all up? Or just throw all casserole type ingredients in and give it a rapid cook?

Edited February 1, 2011 by NSF

[punkin]

I used mine for a big batch of chicken stock on the w'end. I reckon my alcohol intake will kill me a very long time before aluminium cookware.

If i wanted to live a long healthy life i wouldn't have done all those massive amounts of drugs when i was a kid

[obtuse]

before getting my hands on apressure cooker, i used tyndallisation, with great sucess.

otherwise known as fractional sterilisation.

far more time consuming, but in my experience effective if you have no other means.

of course being clean is essential.

all you need do is boil your jars at 100 °C for 30 min

1st boiling, cells are destroyed, endospores of contaminants will survive

while you wait 24 hours most bacteria and endospores germinate

2nd boiling, the germinated endospores will be killed

wait another 24 hours so the remaining endospores can germinate

3rd boiling and the remaining germinated endospores will be killed

while it certainly doesnt make up for a pressure cooker, it'll get you through so you can at least get growing.

Cheers, Obtuse.

[Distracted]

Steam sterilization will work for BRF due to the vermiculite contamination barrier but you'd be pressing your luck moving onto grains.

With that said, my first bulk was with a mini mono using 5 BRF cakes... haven't been able to replicate the experiment since

[NSF]

before getting my hands on apressure cooker, i used tyndallisation, with great sucess.

otherwise known as fractional sterilisation.

 

I like it and I will be using it! But just thinking out loud...it would work for sterilising grain jars (maybe bags?!?!) but what about agar? If something germinates in agar then isn't it ruined-ish?

[migraineur]

The all American aluminum ones are great man. It will out live you and the metal to metal seal means no rubber gaskets to replace etc. You would not regret your purchase.

[migraineur]

The all American aluminum ones are great man. It will out live you and the metal to metal seal means no rubber gaskets to replace etc. You would not regret your purchase.

[obtuse]

I like it and I will be using it! But just thinking out loud...it would work for sterilising grain jars (maybe bags?!?!) but what about agar? If something germinates in agar then isn't it ruined-ish?

 

yep.

And that was certainly my primary motivating factor, that and not wasting so many days, in getting a proper pressure cooker.

of course there are ways around it like germinating spores via brf, and then onto peroxide dosed agar.

its all a matter of experimentation. but pressure cooker is sure well worth the investment.

cheers, Obtuse.

[themushroombloke]

I think it's terribly tempting to cut corners. If you are going to try steam sterilization you need to think like a mushroom but also like the arch enemy mold. Mold moves faster so you have to get your myceliem troops down in numbers and spread all over the battle field. Just remember though the PC is the nuke that bombs your growing medium and almost obliterates the mold. If you use steam sterilization you're giving mold that chance of sucess. I've cut a few corners and what happens is.. you get really excited and your jars are coming along nicely. Then one day you wake up to a green mine field... you swear at your jars and start all over again.

I say get a presto PC. It's the cheapest and it's big!

cheers

themushroombloke

Edited February 5, 2011 by themushroombloke