Canberra uni to ban bottled water

[Slybacon]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

 

Baaaaa

[random]

*giggles*

[CβL]

Well if there are people who favour bottled water, I hope this can dampen your enthusiasm: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/41628/title/Bottled_water_may_contain_%E2%80%98hormones%E2%80%99_Plastics

Enjoy the moobs.

[herbal_hindsight]

Where's the anger?

At the end of the day herbal_hindsight, you need to stop making assumptions that people are asleep. I'm well aware of how fucked up the government is and my opinions have nothing to do with what the government says.

 

The anger is all throughout this thread... i'm sure i'm not the only person sensing this but it seems to have turned into an argument against one another when the real threat is the government and the corporate lobbyist trying to force these ingredients into our everyday lifestyle...

I meant no dis-respect... it just doesn't seem to me like you have done as much research on this topic as you perhaps should have or could have based on your opinion on this topic.

and although you may view it as me making assumptions of claiming people are asleep; sadly but truly, a lot of people are you can't deny that! People have the ability to research the results of hours of scientific scrutiny that proves the very claims made against the dangers of various compounds including fluoride; yet they choose to view a lot of the claims as just conspiracy theories and as a result insane claims built from over-active imaginations. All I ask is to research it all thoroughly... I would love to think; or better still KNOW that fluoride is safe and isnt hurting anyone but the evidence strongly suggests otherwise!

Show me the facts.

Sure!

Toxic Effects of Chronic Fluoride Ingestion on the Upper Gastrointestinal Tract

Reproductive Toxic Effects of Ingestion of Sodium Fluoride in Female Rats

The physiological and toxicological characteristics of fluoride.

A Review of the 2010 Fluoride Literature

FLUORIDE HEALTH EFFECTS DATABASE:

HEALTH EFFECTS: Fluoride & the Brain

Fluoride Toxicity Issues Deaths or poisonings linked to fluoridation or fluoride products

The Effects Of Fluoride On The Thyroid Gland

They are just a few of the thousands of links you can find when you research the dangers of fluoride. [based on respectable scientific research]

As for the evidence to prove our Government is purposely putting fluoride in the water supply to dumb us down... that's a tough case to prove however it seems highly probable and likely... the Government has nothing to gain from having highly intelligent citizens using their brains to their full potential. Also a theory of mine as to why psychedelics are illegal. The western world Governments aren't interested in people expanding their consciousness as it creates a mindset that isn't interested in Mon-Fri 9-5 Slavery to pay off a mortage on a house that is owned by the state anyway. In saying so, I am not saying all members of Government are aware of this coz clearly they are not... but there are levels of authority that would be well aware and if it's not in the Government ranks then it's in an area that directly influences the decision of Government.

Hitler purposely put fluoride in the drinking water of his prisoners knowing it would make them more submissive... this is proven fact, call me crazy but it's another possibility of history repeating itself! The fact hitler knew of this effect fluoride has on the minds of prisoners in the late 30's/40's seems to suggest to me that we are aware of the same effects in the modern day. So why is in put an the majority of the western world's drinking supply?

Read what I said again to make sure you know what you're arguing against. I did not claim that a toxin which affects other parts of the body couldn't affect the mind, I said that it does not mean that it necessarily will. For example, you might come into contact with a toxic and have a reaction in a localised area of your skin. I highly doubt that a small amount of toxin which irritates the skin is going to cause detrimate to the functioning of the brain. There are many variables here. What the toxin is, what pathways it enters the body through, the amount of toxin entering the body, how the body deals with the toxin, etc. Ever heard of the biphasic-dose response? Compounds which are often considered toxic aren't always toxic, depending on the amount in the body, and can actually be beneficial.

No, you don't, but the fluoride debate isn't just a question of health. When people start postulating that the government purposely fluoridates the water to keep us dumb and that the holy pineal gland is calcified as a result of it, it becomes a conspiracy theory. Fool I say!

I am well aware what I am arguing against; I feel it is you who hasn't done their homework.

Speaking of assumptions you just made one then that I am not aware of biphasic-dose response. I am very much aware of this and will be studying it further in homeopathy over the next few years. However, in discussing this I honestly can't see fluoride having ANY positive effect on the body or brain and I can see it directly accumulating and severely and negatively affecting the body and brain over time; of course dependant on the PPM used.

I think your forgetting exactly what a conspiracy theory is defined as and that not all conspiracy theories are crazy ideas put out into cyberspace by people with no life...

Conspiracy means to conspire... it takes 2 or more people to form a conspiracy and the theory is the idea that the conspiracy exists.

It was once beleived hitler taking over germany was a conspiracy theory; clearly it was proven fact.

CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE

Let's not forget how toxic chlorine is too. But no one gives it the time of day.

This is a fair point that I agree with but a massive difference between chlorine and fluoride is we all know chlorine can be removed by the simple process of boiling our water [wish I could've boiled the water I drank at the big day out, it tastes very strongly like chlorine]. Fluoride takes more sophisticated techniques not readily available or affordable for everyone; hence, in my opinion, for the need to spread the information and educate the masses of it's dangers.

Once again, I'm not saying there is no basis to the worries people have over fluoride, but I think many of the conspiratorial ideas that people put forth are highly unlikely.

 

Based on what? I think history speaks the truth if we choose to listen... Slavery was never abolished it only evolved and based on the historical fact of hitler using fluoride against his prisoners to keep them more submissive is enough evidence to 'suggest' that is part of the reason it is used today. There has never been any evidence put forward to prove fluoride actually benefits our teeth and the more research that is being done, the more the opposite is true!

I can't be bothered arguing over this any more. Believe what you want and I'll do the same.

We can all grant you this but just remember no matter what the topic, there will always be people who disagree with your own opinions/beleifs... this doesn't mean they dislike you as a person or mean to show you disrespect...

I think overall in the case of fluoride, the evidence speaks for itself.

I was not meaning to refer just to you regarding the anger in this thread as it's shared by all... I just felt the need to point it out as it's counter-active and the focus should be more so on ways we can fight such an issue rather than just fight angrily amongst ourselves about what is and isn't likely.

If I didn't care for my fellow human brothers and sisters then I wouldn't bother putting the energy in to spread this sort of information. I know one thing for sure... I have more love and compassion towards the health of my fellow brothers and sisters than any Government of any country has ever had in the past.

I stand for human rights, the right to freedom, the freedom of thought and the freedom of choice; especially in regards to what we all CHOOSE to consume.

What angers me the most is the lack of choice we have in something like mass-fluoridation, especially in something we all require to survive.

Just like the war on drugs isn't a war on drug use... it's a war on civil liberties... it's long been proven the war on drugs has done more damage to the public than the drugs themselves.

How many people must die, or be severely effected by water fluoridation before the politicians put down their foot and force the use of fluoride in our drinking supply mass scale!

More than anything it is being shown to directly affect the growth and learning abilities of our younger generations, not to mention reproduction. If we are to have a future as humans then we need to start focussing on things like fluoride that are directly threatening our existance whether you think it's a conspiracy theory or not; it's fact!

Stand up for whats right!!!

[synchromesh]

Too much fluoride in water, government says

High levels causing spots on teeth; recommended limit to be lowered

The Professionals' Statement Calling for an End to Water Fluoridation

On August 9, 2007, the Fluoride Action Network released the Professionals' Statement Calling for an End to Water Fluoridation signed by over 600 professionals. As of January 2011, there are over 3,500 signers.

[tripsis]

Thanks for the links, interesting info. Not that I read them all, but skimmed a couple of them. As I said, I don't disbelieve that fluoride is toxic and has negative health benefits. What I consider thee conspiracy theory part is the part which cannot be substantiated, i.e. that the government (or Slybacon is that the body that controls our government?) purposely puts fluoride into our water supply to dumb us down and make us easy to control. Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't. I'm doubtful.

Speaking of assumptions you just made one then that I am not aware of biphasic-dose response.

No, I didn't make that assumption. I asked you a question.

We can all grant you this but just remember no matter what the topic, there will always be people who disagree with your own opinions/beleifs... this doesn't mean they dislike you as a person or mean to show you disrespect...

No shit. Which is why I said believe what you want and I'll do the same.

[synchromesh]

What's the other theory though? That the government cares about our teeth as much as dentists do? Anyway, I just wanted to add that I'm another person who feels clearer and less apathetic since quitting tap water.

[random]

And since being given an awesome water purifier recently, i've noticed in an improvement in my general well being. Obviously this may be due to drinking more water perhaps or possibly its because the fluoride/heavy metals etc has been removed. Whatever the case i'm not going back to tap water if I can help it.

[herbal_hindsight]

I would love to think our Government don't answer to anyone else but there is a ridiculous amount evidence to suggest otherwise...

Their agenda is incredibly distant from keeping the best interest of the people at heart! It's about keeping their positions of power... keeping up their popularity to keep their positions of power and to stay in parliament long enough to get a life long retirement payout.

But clearly you have never looked deeply into the *cough* conspiracy theories *cough* regarding the ruling elite of the world; controlling the masses through the media, food industry, pharmaceutical industry and energy industries not to mention weapon industry.

There is never a day that I wish to return to the paddock and munch on the grasses provided by monsanto like the sheep I potentially once was.

But every day I wish I lived in a world free of corruption. Full of love, honesty and an evolving paradigm that doesn't include people just out for more control and a never-ending hunger of greed!

yawn

so tell us meeka! :-p

what toothpaste do you swear by and where can we all buy it from?

[random]

I use Riddells Creek organic toothpaste. Mint flavour contains no synthetic chemicals, artificial preservatives, colours, fragrances, tar derivatives, sulphates, fluoride or animal ingredients. Oh and it leaves your breath smelling nice and minty without that awful chalky texture. Hope its ok to mention brand lol *disclaimer* I don't work for the company edited to add you can buy it health food stores/organic food shops/market.

Edited February 9, 2011 by meeka

[psili sausage]

Okay, I'll jump on the bandwagon.

They're only just starting construction of fluoridation plants in my area. This guy is doing a seminar in Ballina and another in Lismore about fluoride toxicity. Anyone in Northern Rivers may be interested...

Paul Connett e-mail Invite.pdf

Paul Connett e-mail Invite.pdf

Paul Connett e-mail Invite.pdf

[synchromesh]

The only thing the government has ever taught me is how to be a bad person... Anyway, has anybody here made their own toothpaste before?

[random]

Yes home made toothpaste can be as easy as bi-carb soda mixed into a paste with water.. cleans very well but I find it too tangy personally. I have recipes for other home made toothpaste if anyone wants one pm me.

[bℓσωηG]

 

[kindness]

This thread has really helped me question whether I give a shit about fluoride in my water or not... after the little bit of research I did the other day I think I do give a shit. I don't however think that our water sources are the biggest issue facing us ATM.

Thanks to all who have brought some great argument and information to this thread.

Unless people have delved into any of the links here, (which maybe 5 - 10% have - I'd like to do a survey of whether people could be fucked doing that at some stage ) I doubt that many know that fluoride exists naturally in ground water. In fact it is in such high concentrations in some places that it has to be taken out of water. AFAIK this isn't the case in Australia... just google it if you care to learn more.

Further, bottled water often contains fluoride also, I believe that manufacturers / bottlers don't actually have to say what the levels are, I guess unless it's dangerous.

[ThunderIdeal]

natural fluoride exists naturally, i think the industrial byproducts are not the same.

[tripsis]

Why not?

[ThunderIdeal]

different compounds commonly referred to by the same name. not pretending to be an expert here, but they're different compounds.

[tripsis]

I thought it might have been something like that.

[synchromesh]

Fluorine is a halogen, like chlorine and iodine. It is the smallest and most reactive element in the halogen family (elements with 7 electrons in their outer shell). Fluorine exists in nature attached to other elements as the negatively charged ion fluoride, most notably to hydrogen, calcium, sodium, aluminum, sulfur, and silicon. Sodium fluoride, a by-product of aluminum smelting, initially was used to fluoridate water. Silicofluorides (fluoride combined with silicon), wastes of phosphate fertilizer production, are now used almost exclusively for fluoridation. Fluorine is also present in compounds called organofluorines, where fluorine atoms (not fluoride anions) are tightly bound to carbon. Teflon (poly-tetra-fluoro-ethylene), Gore-Tex, and many drugs, Prozac (fluoxetine), Cipro (ciprofloxacin), and Baycol (cerivastatin) among them, are organofluorines.

Fluoride Follies

[tripsis]

Fluoride in the water, dumbing people down... Who knows, it could be true. We're a pretty apathetic bunch of people as a nation. Not many seem to really care as our so-called rights and freedoms are eroded by a government bend on total control. I still don't believe the conspiracy, but it would be nice to think that people aren't naturally stupid sheep who'll follow leaders with the worst intentions for them. But that is why I think so many of you believe it. Because you want to believe that the masses are not brainless followers of despots, dictators and tyrants. I'm in a strange mood...

[bℓσωηG]

William Kennerly (3) died after "routine" topical fluoride treatment

From the "New York Times", Saturday, Jan. 20, 1979

$750,000 Given In Child's Death In Fluoride Case.

Boy, 3, Was in City Clinic for Routine Cleaning

By Robert D. McFadden

A State Supreme Court jury awarded $750,000 yesterday to the parents of a 3-year-old Brooklyn boy who, on his first trip to the dentist in 1974, was given a lethal dose of fluoride at a city dental clinic and then ignored for nearly five hours in the waiting rooms of a pediatric clinic and Brookdale Hospital while his mother pleaded for help, and he lapsed into a coma and died.

The award - $600,000 for the wrongful death of the boy, William Kennerly, and $150,000 for the pain and suffering he endured in the hours before his death - was by far the largest ever made in New York State for the death of a 3-year-old, according to the lawyers for the parents, Clay Kennerly, 48, an $8,000-a-year city exterminator, and his wife, Inez, 42, of 300 Dumont Avenue in the Brownsville section.

The child, according to testimony at a four-day trial in State Supreme Court in Brooklyn, suffered spasms of vomiting and nausea, headaches and dizziness, and had to be revived from a coma by an injection of adrenaline into his heart several hours after his ordeal began.

The boy was then made to wait - in shock, another coma and finally in a state of cardiac arrest - for more than an hour before getting further treatment, witnesses said.

Stomach-Pumping Suggested

Other testimony indicated that the boy might have been saved at almost any time during the four hours and 40 minutes before he died by having had his stomach pumped or by having him drink some milk or lime water, which would have changed the fatal fluoride compound he had been given into a nontoxic calcium fluoride.

The defendants in the case were New York City, its Health and Hospitals Corporation and one of its clinics, the Brownsville Dental Health Center; Brookdale Hospital and its Brookdale Ambulatory Pediatric Care Unit; Dr. Bradford George, a dentist; Roslyn Cohen, a dental technician, and Dr. Pretti Bathia, a Brookdale pediatric clinic physician.

After more than a day of testimony by Mrs. Kennerly and medical and toxicological experts, and what were described as thorough investigations by the city and Brookdale Hospital, lawyers for the defendants on Thursday conceded liability, and the jury of five women and one man was instructed by Justice John A. Monteleone to return a verdict for the plaintiffs and to decide the damages to be assessed.

After the jury's verdict at 2:30 P.M., the defendants' lawyers, George W. Weiler for the city and James Hayes for Brookdale Hospital, moved to set the award aside as excessive. Justice Monteleone denied the motion, but said he would consider written motions for a reduction.

Some Reduction Proposed

Morton L. Panken, the lawyer for the Kennerly´s, who have eight other children, said the family would not object to a reduction of the $600,000 award for wrongful death to $500,000 because that was the amount originally asked in the suit. But he said the family had sought $500,000 more for the child´s suffering and would resist efforts to cut the $150,000 awarded for that

The story of the boy's death was related by his mother during the trial. She recalled that she took William, born on Feb. 7, 1971, for his first dental checkup on May 24, 1974, to the Brownsville Dental Health Center, a city clinic at 259 Bristol St.

There, he was examined by Dr. George, who found no dental caries and turned the boy over to Miss Cohen, a dental hygienist, for a routine teeth cleaning procedure. After cleaning, witnesses explained, Miss Cohen, using a swab, spread a stannous fluoride solution in the form of a jell over the boy's teeth as a decay preventive measure.

Fluoride in small amounts is mixed into various brands of toothpaste and the drinking water of some communities to prevent tooth decay. When used by a dentist or dental hygienist after a teeth cleaning, the fluoride jell is in a relatively strong solution, and a patient is told not to swallow it.

Instead, after the solution is allowed to remain on the teeth briefly, the patient is given water and told to wash his mouth out and expectorate.

Fatal Solution Swallowed

According to Mrs. Kennerly, Miss Cohen was engrossed in conversation with a co-worker while working on William and, after handing him a cup of water, failed to instruct him to wash his mouth out with it and spit out the solution. Mrs. Kennerly said that Miss Cohen was not paying attention when William drank the water about 9:30 A.M.

In drinking the water, according to a Nassau County toxicologist, Dr. Jesse Bidanset, William ingested 45 cubic centimeters of 2 percent stannous fluoride solution, triple an amount sufficient to have been fatal.

Upon leaving the dentists chair, William began vomiting, sweating and complaining of headache and dizziness. His mother, appealing to the dentist, was told the child had been given only routine treatment. But she was not satisfied and was sent to the Brookdale Ambulatory Pediatric care unit in the same building.

 

http://www.fluoride-history.de/kennerly.htm

[bℓσωηG]

Australia's Industrial Fluoridation Disgrace (Part 1 of 9)

 

 

Edited February 13, 2011 by blowng

[tripsis]

Interesting video blowng...you guys are beginning to convince me. So how do you avoid fluoridated water, bar having access to rain water or natural spring water? Which filters are capable of filtering out fluoride?

Edited February 14, 2011 by tripsis

[bℓσωηG]

Distilling water is the optimum method IMO, easier and less expensive than reverse osmosis, currently we drive 50km to fill our many 10 litre bottles with rain water from a friends farm... but still having a shower the town water soaks right through the skin as does the chlorine