psili sausage Posted February 8, 2011 All I was trying to say is that a discussion about reducing plastic bottle sales has turned into a fluoridated water debate when there are plenty of threads about that already. For the record, I'm against mass medication of any kind. Perhaps they should provide those reverse-osmosis water vending machines along with the reusable bottles... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
synchromesh Posted February 8, 2011 Well, why don't you ask yourself why bottled water is so popular? Because it doesn't have any fluoride in it... By the way, don't act so innocent... Does Canberra have fluoridated water? I wouldn't have thought the politicians would want that shit in their own water... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 8, 2011 No, bottled water is popular because of convenience and marketing, not because of some crackpot conspiracy theory. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
synchromesh Posted February 8, 2011 Oh, so people avoiding fluoride because of health concerns is a conspiracy theory, eh? I guess all of those non-fluoride toothpastes I've seen and used have just been hallucinations then... And regarding your convenience comment...what's more convenient then a frigging tap??? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 8, 2011 No, it is not. People claiming it turns them into brain-dead zombies is. I don't disagree that fluoride may have negative heath affects, but I do think it unlikely that the government puts it into the water to keep us all "dumbed down". I don't buy bottled water unless I have to, I'm just giving the reason why most people do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CβL Posted February 8, 2011 I can attest that I have noticed no net change in my thinking clarity when switching from fluoridated water (filtered rainwater for last few months). I have been sleepier however. And for those who say they have noticed a change... If your pineal gland WAS calcified, changing the water you drink would not remove the lime deposit in your brain - it would only stop it from growing (despite the fact that such a polar molecule would have great difficulty crossing the BBB, but we'll ignore that conveniently for your sake) so even if you DID try and escape the subduction - it would be too late. On a more on-topic note: Good on Canberra uni for doing this. I fully believe that bottled water (which most of it is tap water anyway isn't it?) is an absolute waste of packaging and energy (trucking water around is a waste of petrol in areas with high-pressure water pipes). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
synchromesh Posted February 8, 2011 Why is it unlikely? They allow for unlisted carcinogens to go into our foods after all... The majority of the convenience comes from the purity of the water. And that's why people keep spending around $3 a bottle for the stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 8, 2011 The majority of the convenience comes from the purity of the water. And that's why people keep spending around $3 a bottle for the stuff. Bottled water exists in more than just your country. Overseas, where it is not safe to drink tap water, everyone who can afford bottled water, will drink bottled water. Here, it's not just purity that has people buying it, as plenty of bottled water it not that pure, especially once the chemicals in the PET have leached into the water. Marketing is largely responsible for the amount of bottled water that is consumed, but convenience, when people are out on the go, plays it's role too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slybacon Posted February 8, 2011 ^^^^ What about taste???? I hate the taste of Tap water Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 8, 2011 Yes, that too. Chlorine isn't exactly appealing. Point being, most people don't buy bottled water because they fear that fluoride is put into the water to turn them into brain-dead zombies so that the government might control us more easily. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dude Posted February 9, 2011 ^^^ Only reason I ever buy bottled water (I usually got other sources for clean water). As for the calcified pineal, maybe it hasn't gone that far, but whatever the mechanism, I believe fluoride does dumb you down. Maybe it's because of this belief that I reckon I now experience clearer thinking. (Better to be deluded by this positive thinking then be oblivious to the existence of toxins in my water and their effect). Pretty simply put, the more toxins we consume the worse we function, it's not at all counter intuitive to think that a toxin like fluoride would fuck up our minds. As for the conspiracy theory side of things; have you seen the world we live in? and you think government is there to protect you from industry? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dude Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) ...most people don't buy bottled water because they fear that fluoride is put into the water to turn them into brain-dead zombies so that the government might control us more easily. Most people are brain dead zombies that the government can control more easily via dismissive catch phrases like "conspiracy theory" and "crackpot", so of course they don't buy bottled water for the crazy conspiracy reason... being part of the "most people" category. [edit] Whether it is a malicious conspiracy or honest incompetence, our governing bodies are standing by as industry poisons us (for whatever reasons). Edited February 9, 2011 by The Dude 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 9, 2011 Nice implication that I'm a brain-dead zombie. Luckily for me, this isn't the case and I'm just as cynical about what the conspiracy theorists have to say as about what the government has to say. Chlorine is a toxin. Why aren't there conspiracies about that? Pretty simply put, the more toxins we consume the worse we function, it's not at all counter intuitive to think that a toxin like fluoride would fuck up our minds. Just because a molecule may be toxic, doesn't mean it affects the mind. It could be your skin that suffers, or your bones. Yes, it might detract from your well-being as a whole, but it won't necessarily affect your ability to think clearly. I'm not saying that it isn't counter intuitive to think that fluoride might affect our minds, I'm not even saying that it doesn't, I'm just not jumping on the bandwagon like so many people love to do around here and waving around the unsubstantiated calcifying pineal gland theory flag. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
synchromesh Posted February 9, 2011 Bottled water exists in more than just your country. Overseas, where it is not safe to drink tap water, everyone who can afford bottled water, will drink bottled water. Thus purity is still the main reason... Here, it's not just purity that has people buying it, as plenty of bottled water it not that pure, especially once the chemicals in the PET have leached into the water. I think you'll find that most Australians don't know about that. Marketing is largely responsible for the amount of bottled water that is consumed, but convenience, when people are out on the go, plays it's role too. What's the marketing all about though? Purity... Yes, that too. Chlorine isn't exactly appealing. Point being, most people don't buy bottled water because they fear that fluoride is put into the water to turn them into brain-dead zombies so that the government might control us more easily. Fluoride isn't the only thing in tap water that people worry about*. And not only that, but having health concerns about fluoride doesn't instantly mean that you believe in fluoride conspiracy theories. * Tests for drugs in tap water Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slybacon Posted February 9, 2011 DDT WAS thought be good for you. Fluoride IS thought to be good for you. Do you really need to be a "conspiracy Theorist" to speak out about things you feel are unhealthy, it can be a fuckup and not a cover up. I'm fuckn getting sick of people throwing that term around so loosely. Sheep I say! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herbal_hindsight Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) far out people... talk about anger issues... at the end of the day TRIPSIS you need to wake up realise your government does not have YOUR best interest at heart! the one thing that pisses me off about the plastic debate is why the fuck aren't we using hemp based plastic which is proven to be safe and does break down when we have finished using it!!! I personally only buy bottled water to avoid fluoride and as for it lowering our intelligence... this is a proven fact that even the US Government are finally admitting! Words like conspiracy nut, or conspiracy theory have become demonised... and anyone who speaks of them is instantly ridiculed and not taken seriously... if anyone seriously believes no conspiracy theories are real then they have already won in controlling your thoughts!!! I would love to see hemp wiping out the current petro-based plastics industry... yes as consumers we are part to blame for the piles of plastic that build up on land and in sea but it would never have happened if hemp was used instead of crude oil. This is not new technology just like electric cars are not new technology [first car ever made was electric] I am speaking of alternatives to the products currently proving to cause mass damage on our planet! Why did this ever need to happen? To make a handful of greedy corporates filthy rich? Whether or not fluoride is used currently to dumb us down on purpose is still open for debate but it was proven to have been used for such a purpose in the past... research fluoride use in the gulag. It made prisoners more submissive and easier to handle. and as for the comment about a toxic compound not necessarily having an effect on the mind but could cause problems in the body... skin, bones etc... The human skin is the largest organ in our body. Our blood runs through it and also runs through all our other organs; including our brain. I think it's incredibly nieve to claim that a toxin that effects any other part of the body couldn't affect the mind. I for one will be investing in a reverse osmosis water ioniser filtration system within the next few months [saving up the $] Here are a few articles for you to read Chill out everyone, stop fighting eachother and fight the real threats behind the depletion of our health [including our mental health] Our Governments... at the end of the day, they are our employees... We pay them to 'govern' the land we live on. So why are they dictating to us how we can live and what we can and can't do. We need to perform a mass sacking sooner or later... also referred to as a revolution! Fluoride - The Obedience Drug - [PDF] Welcome to Hemp Plastic Fluoridation Edited February 9, 2011 by herbal_hindsight 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Where's the anger? At the end of the day herbal_hindsight, you need to stop making assumptions that people are asleep. I'm well aware of how fucked up the government is and my opinions have nothing to do with what the government says. I personally only buy bottled water to avoid fluoride and as for it lowering our intelligence... this is a proven fact that even the US Government are finally admitting! Show me the facts. and as for the comment about a toxic compound not necessarily having an effect on the mind but could cause problems in the body... skin, bones etc...The human skin is the largest organ in our body. Our blood runs through it and also runs through all our other organs; including our brain. I think it's incredibly nieve to claim that a toxin that effects any other part of the body couldn't affect the mind. Read what I said again to make sure you know what you're arguing against. I did not claim that a toxin which affects other parts of the body couldn't affect the mind, I said that it does not mean that it necessarily will. For example, you might come into contact with a toxic and have a reaction in a localised area of your skin. I highly doubt that a small amount of toxin which irritates the skin is going to cause detrimate to the functioning of the brain. There are many variables here. What the toxin is, what pathways it enters the body through, the amount of toxin entering the body, how the body deals with the toxin, etc. Ever heard of the biphasic-dose response? Compounds which are often considered toxic aren't always toxic, depending on the amount in the body, and can actually be beneficial. Do you really need to be a "conspiracy Theorist" to speak out about things you feel are unhealthy, it can be a fuckup and not a cover up. I'm fuckn getting sick of people throwing that term around so loosely. Sheep I say! No, you don't, but the fluoride debate isn't just a question of health. When people start postulating that the government purposely fluoridates the water to keep us dumb and that the holy pineal gland is calcified as a result of it, it becomes a conspiracy theory. Fool I say! Let's not forget how toxic chlorine is too. But no one gives it the time of day. Once again, I'm not saying there is no basis to the worries people have over fluoride, but I think many of the conspiratorial ideas that people put forth are highly unlikely. I can't be bothered arguing over this any more. Believe what you want and I'll do the same. Edited February 9, 2011 by tripsis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
random Posted February 9, 2011 And remember to use non fluoridated toothpaste peoples..... pm me for a few names of safe ones! *chucks in her 2 cents worth* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted February 9, 2011 not that i disagree with using non-fluoride toothpastes, but since you don't generally swallow tooth paste, it's not so much of a problem for your brain? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
random Posted February 9, 2011 Children routinely swallow and often lick/eat toothpaste *yuk* and indeed there's often the occasional ingestion of toothpaste by adults... So definitely something worth considering for those who are wary of fluoridated water. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
random Posted February 9, 2011 Plus have you ever checked the other ingredients in a regular supermarket bought toothpaste? Do your research people and then make up your own minds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted February 9, 2011 yeah they all have sodium laurel sulphate, even most of the health store ones actually Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
random Posted February 9, 2011 Indeed they do plus other petrochemical by products, but not the one(s) I use. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slybacon Posted February 9, 2011 No, you don't, but the fluoride debate isn't just a question of health. When people start postulating that the government purposely fluoridates the water to keep us dumb and that the holy pineal gland is calcified as a result of it, it becomes a conspiracy theory. Fool I say! Mate the GOVT doesn't know shit..... They do what there told. So lay off the conspiracy theory shit it's growing thin 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 9, 2011 Mate the GOVT doesn't know shit..... They do what there told. Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
