New mescaline concentrations from 14 taxa/cultivars of Echinopsis spp. (Cactaceae) ("San Pedro") and their relevance to shamanic practice.

[George]

I think that it was because it was large order.

Small letters (less than 2 kg) easily go through customs, because the majority of them is never inspected.

I buy small plants on ebay, and all goes succesfuly.

Can not tell about USA or Australia, but seems it is universal rules.

Trucha, could you please investigate a little more about T. scopulicola?

Means its chemical analisys on different plants.

In that article, the Scopulicola was a bit more spiny than Australian one (that seems more authentic).

Spineness may be due it was not pure strain, but some hybrid.

 

It might also just be variations in the same set of seeds. Those spines are really minute looking at the picture of an adult FR991. Those spines on the adult are like what 4mm?

Im sure that you might find both traits if you grow out a 1000 seeds.

Not discounting that there might be spined hybrids out there. Scop are some of the few Tricho out there that you can get true type seed for if that is accepted as a truth then a fair amount of variabillity should be acceptable. What poses another question is: Is there more seed grown spineless scops out there or is the spineless variety restricted to being circulated popular horticultural clone?

Edited April 15, 2011 by George

[BBGONE]

It might also just be variations in the same set of seeds. Those spines are really minute looking at the picture of an adult FR991. Those spines on the adult are like what 4mm?

I’m sure that you might find both traits if you grow out a 1000 seeds.

Not discounting that there might be spined hybrids out there. Scop are some of the few Tricho out there that you can get true type seed for if that is accepted as a truth then a fair amount of variabillity should be acceptable. What poses another question is: Is there more seed grown spineless scops out there or is the spineless variety restricted to being circulated popular horticultural clone?

 

On Australian clones they are nonexistant.

Only on small plants, there are 1-2 mm spines, older plants devoid of them at all.

One Berlin seller grows them from seeds, and they always almost the same in appearance.

He uses one old mother plant, and one young plant to pollinate the mother.

There are a lot of seedling and they look almost the same and have the same traits.

Seems FR991 seeds crossed with other trichs varieties on the way:)

Edited April 15, 2011 by BBGONE

[George]

On Australian clones they are nonexistant.

Only on small plants, there are 1-2 mm spines, older plants devoid of them at all.

 

Same here in SouthAfrica, the clone have been around here I suspect for a long time as our oldest garden society type circulations dates back to 1910 as with Soekershof down in the cape wich is nothing more than a turbo charged succulent botanical garden. I got mine ironically also from a chain called GardenWorld. The plants however was sourced by farms down in the cape and I have not found the exact source yet but I suspect it's soekershof or another giant nursery called Obesa. Maybe I will make a plan to go there as a crazy trip/outing one day.

Our climate has made succulents a popular fad yonks ago. I'm allso sitting with a bridgesii clone that I have yet to see abroad. It makes a single long center spine with age and adult grows goes bald. This clone and the scop was horticultural specimens before they became anything else because of special looks and features.

I think this is another reason why photo's are important, I think mescaline profiling on a "per clone"/DNA basis is closer to accurate than per name/genera or taxa.

People will still make assumptions and guesses based on what they think they percieve but there's still some fun in crazyness.

Edited April 15, 2011 by George

[BBGONE]

I'm allso sitting with a bridgesii clone that I have yet to see abroad. It makes a single long center spine with age and adult grows goes bald. This clone and the scop was horticultural specimens before they became anything else because of special looks and features.

 

Maybe your T. Bridgesii like on the picture.

That seems Huttington's clone.

Maybe it is some natural cross of Scopulicola and Bridgesii.

P.S.-

If you have some excess of it, i'd like to buy a small cutting that can be shipped in small packet.

Edited April 15, 2011 by BBGONE

[Gunter]

I think mescaline profiling on a "per clone"/DNA basis is closer to accurate than per name/genera or taxa.

 

but when a single clone gives three different 'profiles' and clones can vary in profile depending on what part of the plant is sampled in what season then even clone data is a joke.

There are no spineless scops, they just have extremely small spines, but when you grow them from seed they have longer spines until they get larger, it is also said that stressed ones produce spines again. And there is the plant Trichocereus crassicostatus, which i have never seen but is said to be allied to scop but with longer spines.

[trucha]

It would be nice to see more analysis done for lots of these as a number of individual clones and assorted parts within those clones. (And then there is the need for studying daily and annual fluctuations, environmental influences, nutritional influences, genetic influences and a lot more)

What will be welcomed is to see completion of a study in California where many matched sets of a single clone are being grown out and looked at as individuals under a variety of circumstances. Its just started fairly recently so I don't know how long it will take to complete.

I don't do any of this work outside of taking photos and looking at as many plants as I can whenever traveling gives me that opportunity. I can't even really grow cacti much anymore due to living in a temperate NW Pacific coastal rainforest where less than 30" (76 cm) of rain in a year is called a drought year. I've steadily divested myself of most of my cactus collection over recent years as a result.

I simply interact with professional people who are in a situation in which they can do basic research and also try to suggest, in venues like this, that the world needs a lot more active researchers in this area in hopes people understand they can create a future line of study in this area if that is how they approach their education.

It might sounds unlikely but it works. Or at least I know a surprising number of people who manifested their dreams of researching one specific thing or another.

Edited April 15, 2011 by trucha

[trucha]

.

Edited April 16, 2011 by trucha

[mutant]

Hey George, you should not complaim about lack of photos if you don't provide some about the clone you say!! I think I have seen an unusual bridgesii from africa/mid east/miditerranean. Be the good guy and share it mate!

Arch>

but when a single clone gives three different 'profiles' and clones can vary in profile depending on what part of the plant is sampled in what season then even clone data is a joke.

I don't find it at all a joke, only a result of myths and misinfo spread by people who don't bother to think for themselves.

Nowadays everyone seems to agree fresh growth is more desireable. I have no idea where the heck information saying otherwise came from...

[Auxin]

[swag]

may be some one could cut through new growth cores with their butcher knife but they couldnt cut through old growth leading to a situation where new growth whole cactus was being compared to old growth outer tissue

Or... perhaps more likely, trip reports often say how many feet of cactus was used. Old fucking 15 cm thick cactus logs have quite a bit more mass in 1 foot than a much thinner new growth stem.

Either way, an error in evaluating quantitative data would not be a surprise.

[/swag]

[BBGONE]

Found one good simple way to test plants on total alks. content.

It is much better then tasting cactus flesh.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/1573q37124274217/

Dragendorff reagent:

Solution A: Dissolve 0.5 g bismuth nitrate (Bi(NO3)3 5H2O) in 20 ml of 20% acetic acid

Solution B: 5 ml of a 40% KI solution in water

Procedure:

Before use, mix 20 ml solution A, 5 ml solution B and 70 ml water

Edited April 18, 2011 by BBGONE

[Gunter]

Found one good simple way to test plants on total alks. content.

It is much better then tasting cactus flesh.

 

Some individuals may have the capacity to taste in a manner that gives both qualitative and quantitative information, much like some people can use scents to discern ingredients and seasoning in food, i say this because bitterness itself is not informative but flavor certainly is and many SP cacti contain very bitter alkaloids but do not contain mescaline or contain very little of it.

So while seeing a color reaction can give information, tasting for some people has the capacity to give more information than reagent. Then again even that is not very informative, some SP cacti have been reported to be quite active and have little to no recoverable mescaline and some active plants are not very bitter at all. It would be very interesting to have more data concerning this matter.

Knowing if a plant has alkaloids or not is not particularly informative, a strong color reaction does not for example give any specific information, flavor has a greater capacity, for some people only, to inform as to the nature of the alkaloids present.

[Teotzlcoatl]

I have a theory that the concentration of mescaline in any chlorophyllic green layer of flesh has to do a lot with the age of that section of flesh, in other words, the longer a piece of cacti flesh photosynthesizes the more Mescaline it will contain.

[PD.]

OK, i have let the discussion of the paper in question go on for some time now but i feel that it has pretty much run its course and leaving this thread open is just encouraging ppl to step into discussing potency and their theories on such things which has nothing to do with the article from the OP.

Closed!