American Staffordshire Terrier

[mr b.caapi]

Amstaff/ American Pit-Bull same dog , same breed. Beautiful dogs if brought up correctly , same gos for any dog really , If it is brought up rough and aggressive then thats what it will be. Ive seen some really sooky Amstaff\Pitbulls . More often than not its poodles and shitzus that are aggressive and snappy, its just that they lack the weight and power to be classed as "Dangerous".

Edited December 8, 2010 by mr b.caapi

[Sallubrious]

*edited to say that i've said my piece on this topic and won't be posting anything further in relation to any ignorant opinions on these breeds of dog.

 

Perhaps my security work as a guard dog handler and all the conferences and discussions about dog breeds was all a farce.

Maybe the Silky terrier that was attacked several weeks ago by a Staffordshire in my street brought it upon itself when it's owner dared walk it along the footpath on the opposite side of the road from the Staffy.

In your infinite wisdom you entirely missed the point of my post, the point I was making, which was it is the irresponsible owners that are the problem not the dog. The more potential for harm the more precautions the owner needs to take.

Maybe you should brush up on your comprehension skills.

By the way I've owned a Pitbull and Staffy so I do have some idea of what I'm talking about.

[Slybacon]

Amstaff/ American Pit-Bull same dog , same breed. Beautiful dogs if brought up correctly , same gos for any dog really , If it is brought up rough and aggressive then thats what it will be. Ive seen some really sooky Amstaff\Pitbulls . More often than not its poodles and shitzus that are aggressive and snappy, its just that they lack the weight and power to be classed as "Dangerous".

 

You are 100% wrong.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Slybacon

[mr b.caapi]

You are 100% wrong.

Im getting the shits now mate. Take your ignorant opinion elsewhere. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are not informed on the subject nor have you contributed to this thread with any research that is correct. Im sorry but you are just not informed enough to make such comments and as such should take your opinion elsewhere.

GO AWAY comments like yours are why we are getting so much bad publicity. You are a dumb ass!!!!

 

Im sorry our points of view vary mate, I have my beliefs, you have yours. This is a Forum for open discussions and your Abuse and recent PM will not make me go away.

How are my comments causing bad publicity?? Because i said they are beautiful dogs ? Because i said it was the way and owner brought a dog up and not the dog itelf that determines aggresiveness? Which comment was it mate??

[Slybacon]

Which comment was it mate??

 

Edited Parts

The only one that is 100% wrong. "AMSTAFF is another name for American Pitbull Terrier". I also don't believe that the Head of the NSW AMSTAFF club said what you claim. I am a member of this club and I will be talking to them at the xmas dog show in sydney on 18th.

I think you have mistaken there history. I have explained in earlier posts how they became separate breeds and why they are the only 3 separate breeds to exist without the crossing of any breeds. Your comments are damageing because you are trying to compare a dog that is effected by Specific breed legislation with a dog that is not. By spreading awareness of facts that are untrue you are making it easier for people to support the banning of such dogs. AMSTAFF is a ANKC registered breed and has been for a long time.

American Pitbull Terrier, Staffordshire Bullterrier and American Staffordshire Terrier are three separate breeds. I can say with 100% honesty that this is a fact. They are all from the same stock but they are separate breeds.

Its kind of like saying we are all the same race. If you go back far enough we all share the same ancestory but we have become sepperated by genetic differences over time.

If your AMSTAFF isn't registered with the ANKC then it may well be a pitbull. The bitch i have advertised is 100% American Staffordshire Terrier and nothing else. Her Parents were AMSTAFFS and their parents were AMSTAFFS all registered with ANKC.

So what you are trying to say mr b.caapi is that through your internet research, you know more about breeds then the Australian National Kennal Club. Are you trying to tell me that the ANKC is just fooling everyone and registering pitbulls as another breed? The papers from the vet mean nothing as far as breed conformation goes and the paperwork from the ANKC is the only true way to identify your dogs breed.

There is no way that a American Pitbull Terrier an American Staffordshire teriier and a Staffordshire Bull Terrier are the same breed. Feel free to discuss the dangerousness or the other breed traits, as u have said this is a free discussion. But please keep it to the facts as your comments are spreading information that is just not true.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Slybacon

[Slybacon]

Source : http://www.bulldoginformation.com/bull-and-terrier-breeds.html

 

Scroll down and you will see that you have contradicted your self with your own reference.

EDIT> This screen shot is taken from the reference you failed to read properly.

This why your comments got me frustrated. You post references about your research without even the care of reading them, and then post in 4 separate posts that they are the same breed. Your not doing us an favours.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Slybacon

[mr b.caapi]

I dunno why you keep mentioning the English Staffy, this was never a comparison. They are not the same dog.

The Amstaff and the Pitbull are the same dog. Breeders may have branched of and developed different builds etc. Just like they do in other breeds . I hear what your saying , the breed got branched of some where along the way but if you were to take DNA from both dogs they would be identical.

Edited December 8, 2010 by mr b.caapi

[Slybacon]

I dunno why you keep mentioning the English Staffy, this was never a comparison. They are not the same dog.

The Amstaff and the Pitbull are the same dog. Breeders may have branched of and developed different builds etc. Just like they do in other breeds . I hear what your saying , the breed got branched of some where along the way but if you were to take DNA from both dogs they would be identical.

 

I mention the SBT because it has the same history. They are in the same boat based on your logic. You would also find this is true the Staffordshire Bullterrier could be DNA proven to be a Pitbull, the DNA does not make up the BREED in the case of these dogs. So would you consider a SBT to be Pitbull? probably not, but it shares the same ancestory and has not been crossed with any other dog. In fact go back far enough and you would say they are short stocky pitties, again tho you have to be carefull as you dont want them to be affected by Breed Legislation

There is no such breed as an English Staffy. it is just Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

Staffordshire Bull Terrier (SBT), American Staffordshire Terrier (AST) and American Pitbull Terrier (APBT) are all the same DNA but they are 3 separate breeds.

By your logic the SBT ia a american Pitbull Terrier. This simply not true, just as an Amstaff is not a APBT.

So is there any reason you consider the Staffordshire Bull Terrier its own breed but an American Staffordshire Terrier a Pitbull? I dont understand why you have made the connection with staffies but not Amstaffs. Is it because they resemble the appearance of a pitbull more so then the Staffies or did you simply misread the history and jump the gun?

Edited December 8, 2010 by Slybacon

[mr b.caapi]

please leave the (English) Staffordshire bull terrier out of the discussion, they are not pitbulls.

Im out anyway.

Nice dog.

Edited December 8, 2010 by mr b.caapi

[Slybacon]

please leave the (English) Staffordshire bull terrier out of the discussion, they are not pitbulls.

Im out anyway.

Nice dog.

 

I dont understand your logic, you must be seriously confused. SBT, AST and APBT are the only THREE SEPPERATE BREEDS to be recognised with out the addition or cross breeding of any breeds. So by your logic they are all pitbulls. But you are wrong. So unless you have anything correct to add to the discussion it is probably best that you are out. Thanks

[Slybacon]

please leave the (English) Staffordshire bull terrier out of the discussion, they are not pitbulls.

 

SURELY THESE DOGS DESERVE DEATH!

When they came for the pit bulls,

I remained silent;

Surely these dogs deserved death!

When they banned the rottweilers,

I remained silent;

Who needs these dogs?

When they came for the guardian breeds,

I did not speak out;

My dog was not one of these.

When they came for the large dogs,

I remained silent;

My dog was small.

When they came for all dogs,

there was no one left to fight with me.

Matrix adapted from Niemöller -

AMSTAFF - Heavier set with lower rear and more emphasis on the front legs

Pitbull - More athletic with more drive in the rear. Also different structure

Edited December 8, 2010 by Slybacon

[AndyAmine.]

Well debated Sly..

Also just to confuse the discussion more all 3 are 'pitbulls', it is a general term not a specific one. lol

One tip to tell apart APBT's in australia is that they will generaly have a red nose, this is quite a dominant trait and usualy carries over into first and second generation litters.

The red nose APBTs made up a lot of the first types in Australia and as a result they make up a lot of the population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull

Edited December 8, 2010 by AndyAmine.

[Slybacon]

Also just to confuse the discussion more all 3 are 'pitbulls', it is a general term not a specific one. lol

 

Yes that does confuse the situation, all three BREEDS are known as "pitbulls" this is a little known fact. Plus alot of other mastiff , terrier , bull dog breeds.

Staffordshire Bull Terrier

American Staffordshire Terrier

American Pit Bull Terrier

Cane Corso

and many others

In this thread tho I was refering to the American Pitbull Terrier not being the same "breed" as the American Staffordshire Terrier. But I'm pretty sure you knew that ;)

Edited December 8, 2010 by Slybacon

[chilli]

Just wanted to say thanks Slybacon for clearing up an issue (the differences between AST and APBT) that I hadn't quite understood until now.. your careful explanation made perfect sense to me, so I guess I must be a child murderer. ;)

Edited March 23, 2012 by chilli

[AndyAmine.]

Personally I would be more worried about people keeping backyard bred Bull Arabs, Bandogs and those neo Mastiff X's than a club registered AMSTAFF or SBT and Ive seen those 3 regularly advertised in the local rag from dodgy BYBs.

[dworx]

Perhaps my security work as a guard dog handler and all the conferences and discussions about dog breeds was all a farce.

Maybe the Silky terrier that was attacked several weeks ago by a Staffordshire in my street brought it upon itself when it's owner dared walk it along the footpath on the opposite side of the road from the Staffy.

In your infinite wisdom you entirely missed the point of my post, the point I was making, which was it is the irresponsible owners that are the problem not the dog. The more potential for harm the more precautions the owner needs to take.

By the way I've owned a Pitbull and Staffy so I do have some idea of what I'm talking about.

 

Maybe what you have commented with has been comprehended and maybe as you have said above you are correct on each point - maybe?

[Slybacon]

Amstaff Standard

[LikeAshesWeFade]

Long story short.. the AMSTAFF is NOT an APBT, never has been never will be! What shits me though is that the general public(sheep) are looking at the AMSTAFF as a Pitbull coz they know F' ALL, and I personally think in the next 5 years, with enough USELESS owners not caring for their AMSTAFF and SBT.. they will be regulated as the Pitty is.

I agree with you Sally, being a bigger dog (with lock jaw) that does have much more power than a shitszu they need a firmer pack leader(owner) and NEED to be given attention and socialised with other dogs ALOT! It just so happens that from my exp smaller dogs are MUCH more vicious, especially towards kids. It's just that they are piss weak so will do next to no harm.. My daughter is laying out the back as we speak playing "cuppa teas" with my AMSTAFF.

It is DEFINITELY the owners responsibility to train their dog properly and socialise it, but I also think that because the poor APBT has been bred for fighting, for such a long time! Any Pitbull you buy today, no matter how trained it is, may have the potential to "snap". As it's still in their genes because they have not been bred long enough for companionship which means that their parents or grandfather was probably a vicious fighting dog. The AMSTAFF may still be used underground for all we know.. but they would not be ANKC dogs, so like Sly is saying unless you buy an ANKC registered AMSTAFF.. you may be getting a BYB AMSTAFF which somewhere down the line was probably crossed with Pitty's.

Edited December 9, 2010 by LikeAshesWeFade

[Slybacon]

I also think that because the poor APBT has been bred for fighting, for such a long time! Any Pitbull you buy today, no matter how trained it is, may have the potential to "snap".

 

There are good points to fighting dog breeds that have come from the pit. Originally pit fighting was much like boxing and done on a point score basis. The dogs were not fighting to the death. Pit dog owners would arrive at the pit and swap dogs with their competitors. They would have to raise their dog to have a respect for humans. Each owner would wash the other owners dog as a test of temperament, if this failed the dog would not compete. They entered the pit under the control of their competitors handler with only enough chain to extend as far as the shoulders of the other dog. As soon as a dog fell or turned the round was over and the points allocated. Fighting dogs were extremely loyal to humans, and this is the reason they can make lousy guard dogs quite often licking an intruder on the way through his yard.

Pit breed dogs have extremely high pain tolerance and this is the reason they can make excellent pets for older children. Staffordshire terriers are known as nanny dogs. When a kid jumps on a smaller breed dog it can be hurt and lash out at the kid. Most pit breed dogs can take anything a kid can deal out.

One of the main problems with pit dogs and one of the main reasons they get them self in trouble with the media is their lack of body language. Pit dogs were bred to fight without reading the signs of the other dog. It was a situation where they did what they were told and just went straight for the neck or anckles with out to much reading into a situation. This has led to a breed that looks as tho it snaped out of the blue when really if it was another breed you would of seen alot of body language leading up to the snap. It also means they are not as good at reading other dogs language and as such can react in ways that are unexpected. Ie think another dog is a threat when it isn't. This is why it is important that they learn to play with other breeds as early on as possible. My boy plays rough as with other pit dogs but is scared at puppy school of all the other breeds. He has no idea how to take them. By week 3 he is getting the hang of it

Here is another snap of the bitch for sale. She has very good structure and would make an incredible show dog.

EDIT> Also to clear up one point.

LOCKJAW- It is a common myth that pit dogs have "lock Jaw" this is simply not true as an exact statement. Pit dogs have an extremely powerful Jaw, there is NO locking mechanism or action they are just strong as hell. If they WANT to let go they can.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Slybacon

[Slybacon]

AMSTAFF HISTORICAL DOGS-

These are some of the dogs that make up the original bloodlines. This is 10 years after they became their own breed and the where the current lines take their shape.

You gotta love owning a dog with a deep history. I cant stand some of the designer dogs of today. I like a good all purpose dog with a rich history.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Slybacon

[Slybacon]

[Slybacon]

The American Staffordshire Terrier was officially recognised in Australia on 1st January 1987.

The first Amstaff was imported from Hawaii in November 1985 by Mr and Mrs Murdoch of Red Cliffs Victoria. They were to become the first breeders/exhibitors of the breed, their kennel prefix being "Amstaff". The basis of their future breeding programme was to start with this import, "Rockislands O’Omua O Hawaii". Bob and Ruths next import was the lovely brindle dog Ka Hanahou’s Lei O' Makana. He was to become the first Australian Champion, and with the earlier imported bitch was to produce the first Australian bred litter.

In 1989, in Queensland, Dr Glucina of the "Araganu" prefix began to import Amstaffs into Australia. Over a period of time he imported the American Champion dog "Steeltowns Diamond Boy", another dog "Ka Hanahou’s Seamist", a bitch "Cock N Bulls Poppycock" and another bitch Haw N Blue Knight Mist. All having cropped ears, so unfortunately were unable to be shown in Australia. From these imports Dr Glucina was to start his breeding program and produced his first litter in 1990.

CLIPPINGS OF DR. GLUCINA'S EARLY IMPORT'S INTO AUSTRALIA.

The Murdoch's next import was another male "Ka Hanahou’s Rojo’s Sam", a red dog. He was 8 ½ months old when released from quarantine on February 14th 1991.

In October 1990 Mark and Wendy Evans, of Evastaff Kennels in Tasmania, were to purchase a brindle bitch from Hawaii. This was "Kalokos Lea", just 13 months old at time of purchase. She arrived in quarantine December 1990 and was released 12th April 1991. This bitch started her show career in August the same year and went through to her Australian title. Kalokos Lea was the first bitch to produce a litter with both parents being Australian Champions.

Evastaff imported their second Amstaff in December 1992, released from quarantine May 1993. This was the striking black brindle dog "Hot Lava Indian at Evastaff". Jasper, as he is known, was to quickly gain his Australian title also.

In the following years imported semen produced some worthy Amstaff litters. Lee Jenkins, of Bluesteel Kennel in Victoria, imported semen from two dogs. International Ch Willynwood Redneck and American Ch Rowdytowns Hardrock Café. In Queensland Greg Gordon imported frozen semen from Am Ch Pacific's Distant Thunder. And later, in partnership with Lynda Craw (Lyntiki), the lovely blue dog "Am Ch Pacific's Hot Pursuit", who was co-owned by Greg and Lynda.

Lynda Craw also imported two Amstaffs from New Zealand in 1998, (originally imported from Hawaii into NZ). The dog, "Aust/NZ Ch Kupa’a Tama of Triskara" and the bitch "Triskara Mea Kau Ake (AI USA)". The bitch arrived in whelp. Other breeders are investigating importing worthy dogs and bitches as well as further importation of frozen semen from good American bred dogs.

More dogs and frozen Semen have been imported into Australia since then making their mark on the Australian Amstaff.

Interest in the Amstaff within Australia is steadily on the increase. This versatile breed can be utilised as a family companion, a show dog and as an obedience dog and are now seen in all fields of canine performance and therapy. The breed is continually creating interest in and out of the show ring, and this, combined with a responsible breeding program will ensure a steady development of the America Staffordshire Terrier in Australia.

Written and compiled by Wendy Evens - Evastaff Kennels

 

[LikeAshesWeFade]

Bloody oath they take alot of crap from kids because they're so robust and placid. My boy is the same.. great with other big AMSTAFFS but when we take him to the dog park, you see his anxiety rise quickly because its all new to him. We let him into the play yard with about 30 other dogs and atleast 10-15 of them came sprinting over (greyhounds n all) to see our boy, he absolutely SHAT his pants and just submitted with paws up on the floor, let them all sniff him and then off they went!

Other dogs there did not like to be mounted, causing a bit of a snarl match! As our boy is only 6mths he has to get his instinct under control haha, he had no idea! The only dog there that seemed to bond instantly with him was a gorgeous 3mth old red-nose pitty. The shear courage of the amstaff is unbelievable! If a labrador got snapped at he would just ignore it and keep walking.. but the pure courage of the Amstaff, one dog has a go at him and thats it, he's in for the long haul!

Bloody amazing dogs!! If I lived where you are sly I would be taking that gorgeous girl home today!

GAH! I cannot stop looking at her!

Edited December 9, 2010 by LikeAshesWeFade

[Slybacon]

This is my noy on his first day with us at 10 weeks.

He is 16 weeks now and we dont have any new photos. He was 11kg last time I weighted him.

[dworx]

My boy and one of my girls, SBT! Top breeds