Seedling propagation under lights

[IceCube]

Hi there,

I recently purchased a plant propagator unit so that I could use it, on top of my dorm room's heater to propagate plants that wouldn't normally stand a chance in the freezing Canberra winter. I sowed a row of coleus and only had probably 3 or 4 of the 10 or so seed germinate, and then never get past the "baby leaf" stage where they have those 2 really small leaves. I attributed this to there not being enough light getting into the propagation unit, and I cannot leave the jiffy pellets beside the window because it is too cold. I've also read that a lot of species I want to grow (coleus, tobacco, etc) need light to ensure a good germination rate.

So now, I've got a 100W tungsten bulb with a reflector which I picked up for something around 10 bucks from an ex-government store sitting approximately 15cm from the lid of the unit.

Basically my questions:

1. Is the light of sufficient power to keep the seedlings going until they are able to be moved somewhere which will have sufficient light?

2. Is it close enough?

Here is a picture to make things easier:

Cheers

[ref1ect1ons]

Some seniour memebers will have something to say, I'll just describe what I like and what has worked for me, though I am still an amatuer.

It is difficult to tell from the photo angle. I think the distance is a bit much, I use over 20 cm, a good 25 cm, depending on the plant size etc. I think a it needs tad closer. I dont know, there is something about it which someone else will pick-up on.

Otherwise the greenhouse doesnt look very 'misty', I like to exhale or water to get a nice warm mist going. Im sure others will say this is stupid, it probably is. But I still feel that the volume of your greenhouse is too great. Maybe increasing the volume of the soil would help.

I wish I could help more.

Edited August 31, 2010 by ref1ect1ons

[mr me]

I have found a lot of useful information about lighting from what people have written when it comes to growing marijuana even though I do not grow it myself. People put a lot of time, effort and money into their grows, so they do a fair amount experimentation and trial and error. This information can be somewhat transferred to what you are trying to do. The tungsten bulb will provide warmth but it is going to be too far away and your seedlings will stretch due to lack of light. Put it too close and there might be too much heat and they will burn. I myself grow a variety of vegetables and I use fluorescent grow-lux tubes sitting close to the top of the seedlings and na incandescent bulb to help provide the extra heat. I have my seedlings growing in a propagator with a thermometer/ hygrometer to monitor the conditions. Your seedlings won't need much light when they first pop out of the soil, but if your want them to grow healthy then your setup will need to be tweaked. You may want to consider investing in a heating mat as well; this will help keep soil warm.

[Rabelais]

I am thinking the tungsten light will be extremely un-economical in the long run.

Fluorescent lights will be the best bet for you. Try for a couple of 24" tubes @ 18watts. You live in Canberra so there should be a good supply of hydroponic stores? I feel a little seedy going into those places sometimes, but there is no where else really for specialty growing supplies.

Look for 'Gro-lux' fluorescent tubes...they are made for what you are doing and are not expensive. I use them for cactus growing and seed germination. You can really get the light up close without concern for burning.

Yeah, heat mat as mentioned. But they can be a bit pricey for their foot print sometimes...depends on the model I guess.

[hutch]

What has worked for me when trying to germinate in cold conditions under lights was an inch or so of water in the bottom of an aquarium and a small fish tank heater. A bit of cling wrap over the top and you have a good humidity crib.

You may get a bit out of this http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=130800

I swear I'm going to give that system a go in the future...maybe a bit costly to run but I think the end harvest would make up for it....

Hutch

[btotl]

What would these be like for grow lighting?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/225-LED-GROW-LIGHT-PANEL-RED-BLUE-HYDROPONIC-15W-GSTINC-/280555621930?pt=AU_Seed_Starting_Hydroponics#ht_2485wt_1137

I am guessing not that great?

[hutch]

What would these be like for grow lighting?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/225-LED-GROW-LIGHT-PANEL-RED-BLUE-HYDROPONIC-15W-GSTINC-/280555621930?pt=AU_Seed_Starting_Hydroponics#ht_2485wt_1137

I am guessing not that great?

 

OK for Mary Jane but not sure for anything else

[PD.]

130w cfl 6400k and a heat mat, cant go wrong. Find them on ebay.

[ref1ect1ons]

I just found out that cfl are considered to produce 'dirty' light. Has anyone else heard this as I was thinking of changing to traditional fluros because of this.

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVIlpWxMYcc&feature=player_embedded

Edited September 1, 2010 by ref1ect1ons

[Rabelais]

^^^

I think the CFL's PD is talking about are the specialty ones which use the corrects spectrum.

Not sure about generic. When using generic CFL, it is probably best to use a combination of temperatures (kelvin)

[ref1ect1ons]

where do people get the gro-cfl's as I dont think normal hardware stores like bunnings has them.

[mr me]

where do people get the gro-cfl's as I dont think normal hardware stores like bunnings has them.

 

No they don't have them at any Bunnings I've been to. Just go a hydro store, they are a bit pricey but they don't cost a fortune. Ask the people behind the counter for help as there are tubes that might be better suited for flowering or growing.

[hutch]

where do people get the gro-cfl's as I dont think normal hardware stores like bunnings has them.

 

Ebay is full of em...

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/200W-E40-Hydroponic-Energy-Saving-Fluoro-Light-Bulb-CFL-/370371770108?pt=AU_Seed_Starting_Hydroponics#ht_2049wt_708

I have one of these that works fairly well on a plant that requires at least 18 hours light at the moment...I find if I place the plant in the sun all day and put it in a cupboard under light at night works well...cheap to run as well.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/225-LED-GROW-LIGHT-PANEL-RED-BLUE-HYDROPONIC-15W-GSTINC-/260646773159?pt=AU_Seed_Starting_Hydroponics#ht_2533wt_934

[PD.]

Yeh they on ebay like hutch mentioned as did i in my first reply lol. No ballast required even with tha 250w cfl, just plug them directly into power. Dunno bout the LED setups as yet as i havent tried them but from what i have seen and been told they got a ways to go before they are taken seriously.

[Moses]

you could also pick up grow fluorescents from large pet stores if you cant find them anywhere else close.

[IceCube]

Ok thanks for all the suggestions guys :D I ended up transferring my coleus seeds from the jiffy pellets into some potting mix and rigged up some al foil until I can afford a nice big CFL (few weeks). I am concerned about the light burning the plants at this height and will probably move them down.

When I head home in a couple of weeks, I'm going to make a seedling raising box from an old fish tank and heater as hutch suggested. I will just replace the fluro light with a more powerful one. Should be a good place to raise the 1000 or so cacti I want to plant :D

Edited September 14, 2010 by IceCube

[J Smith]

G'day mate,

You might want to look into some panda film rather than foil in the long run. Apparently foil can cause burns.

Cheerio

[Ethos]

yes as madhouse said foil does cause burns and creates hot spots in your grow box/chamber, panda film or flatt white paint are about the only good thing for reflecting besides mylar which is hell expensive not to mention hard to find (besides hydro shops). but there are emergency blankets which are made from mylar might not be cheaper but much better then foil and easier to find then panda film or actual mylar

[IceCube]

yes as madhouse said foil does cause burns and creates hot spots in your grow box/chamber, panda film or flatt white paint are about the only good thing for reflecting besides mylar which is hell expensive not to mention hard to find (besides hydro shops). but there are emergency blankets which are made from mylar might not be cheaper but much better then foil and easier to find then panda film or actual mylar

 

Indeed! The coleus are all toast. I've conceded defeat until I get the fish tank going. On another note though, the peres is LOVING the light. Check out the difference in 2 days:

I also burnt the tip of a pedro cutting, hopefully it'll go back to the nice green it was before.

[Ethos]

oh no!

ah well, your pedro should recover. and i also advise the fish tank and fluoro idea.

I'm currently running a two CFL setup, 24 watts each, 2700k warm white, Philips tornado's found at any grocery or hardware stores, you just have to be up to scratch with your wiring skills as to not create a major fire hazard.

note. also i am not running a heat mat, overnight i just sit my takeaway container on my laptop PSU for a bit of heat and so far no troubles.

also give that peres a drink

[IceCube]

oh no!

ah well, your pedro should recover. and i also advise the fish tank and fluoro idea.

I'm currently running a two CFL setup, 24 watts each, 2700k warm white, Philips tornado's found at any grocery or hardware stores, you just have to be up to scratch with your wiring skills as to not create a major fire hazard.

note. also i am not running a heat mat, overnight i just sit my takeaway container on my laptop PSU for a bit of heat and so far no troubles.

also give that peres a drink

 

Cool. I will keep that in mind. I have a few lamp holders that take those bulbs so I wouldn't even have to wire them up!

[mescalito]

Bottom heat is what you're after for germing, flouros are great!

Don't pay marked up prices,just go to an electrical wholesaler...for best results if ya got a friend in the trade borrow their shirt or see if ya can get them to buy for ya.

Use gro-lux too excellent

[IceCube]

Bottom heat is what you're after for germing, flouros are great!

Don't pay marked up prices,just go to an electrical wholesaler...for best results if ya got a friend in the trade borrow their shirt or see if ya can get them to buy for ya.

Use gro-lux too excellent

 

Exactly what I am going to do - dad has an account with a local Rexel supplier

Here is my new setup, with the following strains (left to right, top to bottom) I estimate there are 500+ seeds in there. The photo is from exactly a week after sowing:

Pachanoi x Rosei #1, pach x psych0, ICARO, Fields pach x Peruvianus, Peruvianus x pach, knuthianus

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The temperature at the top of the tank is around 27C whilst the soil temp is 23-24C with no heating.

The fluoro at the moment is the stock 8W one for the fish tank, just have to head to the supplier tomorrow. What sort of wattage am I chasing? Am thinking 30-40 if I can get If I'm not happy with what they have, I might just grab some LED lights off eBay. Thanks for all the useful advice guys, will post photos of the grow once they're bigger!

[mescalito]

Exactly what I am going to do - dad has an account with a local Rexel supplier

The temperature at the top of the tank is around 27C whilst the soil temp is 23-24C with no heating.

The fluoro at the moment is the stock 8W one for the fish tank, just have to head to the supplier tomorrow. What sort of wattage am I chasing? Am thinking 30-40 if I can get If I'm not happy with what they have, I might just grab some LED lights off eBay. Thanks for all the useful advice guys, will post photos of the grow once they're bigger!

 

Go-Lo has Tri-phosphour 2 footers for $0.76 each

Had no probs with raising and hardening off with this setup.

1 Metal cabinet painted black with swing door(was a trade-toolbox now upright,also my brews sit on top),3 shelf positions with double flouro holder on one,one just flat for bottom heat and one I cut an inch in all way round,discarded the board,stapled shadecloth to and a small computer style fan.

All shelves can be re-arranged/removed to suit the particular application,sometimes I can have jars at the top, drying chilli's next one down and light shelf on the bottom with enough room to germ,grow and harden off.