Mystery extract

[Salvi]

hydro-ethanolic extract sounds like an extract using a water/alcohol solution to me??

[Guest electro]

friendly - excellent work .. or as us aussie blokes should be saying "bloody rippa mate !"

re hydro-ethanolic = technical name for vodka ?

[friendly]

Hydro-ethanolic is a fancy of way of saying 95% ethanol which contains 5% water after distillation; it's almost impossible to get that 5% water out without going to extremes.

As many of you know, I am no stranger to chronic pain and have used many substances both benign and harmful in an effort to make my life more endurable.

My comments about the efficacy of L.l. extract when compared to cannabis took this into account, although I did not specifically mention analgesia. This was a lapse on my part.

There is considerable analgesia and muscle relaxation experienced after ingestion of the extract by pyrolization, noticable 15-20 minutes after ingestion, providing the extract ingested was of sufficient quantity and strength.

Oral ingestion effects take somewhat longer to manifest, appearing around 30 minutes after ingestion and continuing to increase for some time after; I did not time this experience due to distractions.

I found .5g of the extract to be noticable and .45 more additionally so, but not as much more noticable as one would expect.

This may be due to my having used a large enough dose initially (which was still coming on when I ingested the 2nd dose), there being a 'ceiling' to the effects, or perhaps the influence of set and setting as I taught a class during this particular experience and this may have kept me from focussing as much on the effects as I would have had I been alone.

Needless to say, there is a lot of work still to be done here. Have fun. Be careful. Respect the web of life.

Omtao.

So many herbs; so little time.

[ 12. February 2005, 02:29: Message edited by: friendly ]

[apothecary]

friendly, your work is something you should be very proud of, and I hope that when it counts, that in itself will relieve some of your pain.

[Agamemnon]

Well done friendly. found this site which sells 10x

http://www.iamshaman.com/eshop/10Browse.asp but couldnt find any 25x. Does anybody know whos stocks it and is it legal to import into Oz?

[friendly]

I will be stocking a supply of the 25x shortly and will notify everyone when it arrives and at what price it will be sold.

Iamshaman gets his 10x from my supplier, if I am not mistaken.

It's a resin extract, similar in appearance and smell to cannabis and other resin extracts.

I do not know what hoops one might have to jump through to bring it into oz, though.

[Torsten]

There should be no restrictions for australia - neither customs nor state laws.

I am actually using a L.leonurus flower resin in a new product that should be available in a week or two.

[psycho0]

so could u use high proof vodka for the hydro ethanol xtraction?

thanx

and fantastic work friendly! keep it up mate :D

[apothecary]

friendly, I'm sure myself and others would appreciate it very much if you could outline the extraction method.

Are we just talking about the same method used to make hashish (e.g. settle in alcohol for few days, scrape/decant/evaporate off resulting resin) or is it more complex than that?

Would someone be so kind as to enlighten me to the difference in procedure between say a 5x extract, 10x extract and a 25x extract?

[Skulking Lurker]

Would a butane extraction work, as it does in the production of honey oil from cannabis?

[Torsten]

wet ethanol extraction uses non-anhydrous ethanol. ie, ethanol that has not had its azeotropic water removed. basically all commercial metho in oz qualifies for this criteria. So this extract can be made using plain metho.

Vodka will probably not do because it contains too much water. It is certainly MUCH more polar.

Butane is non-polar. It may work or it may not. There is no way of knowing without trying. The polarity of the resin you are extracting determines what will work. wet ethanol is kinda inbetween butane and water, but we don't know which way it leans. However, if vodka works then butane probably won't - and vice versa.

[Torsten]

strength is determined by comparing the amount of initial starting material with the final weight. ie if you start with 500g and end up with 5g then you have a 100X. if you end up with 50g then you have 10X. if you end up with 20g then you have 25X.

To get started you extract the weighed material into the solvent and then evaporate the solvent. ie 500g of flowers in 2L ethanol, filter, evaporate solvent. Scrape up the resin and weigh it. say you get 5g of resin then this resin is 100X. So to make 25X you would need to dilute this down by a factor of 4 (ie 1 part resin and 3 parts herb..... 5g of resin + 15g of herb).

Simply dissolve the resin in minimum amount of solvent to dissolve all of it. Then add the dilutant (ie the 15g of herb) and evaporate all solvent.

The end result should be exactly (or at least roughly) 20g.

The formula is 500 : 25 = 20

[apothecary]

Torsten, will you marry me? :D

[Torsten]

LOL, sorry, I'm taken

[friendly]

When using any alcohol (methanol, ethanol, isopropyl)do not use any that is less than 75.5% alcohol (151 proof) as a lesser strength will not remove all the extractables.

Loos like all the other questions have been answered.

Good job, Torsten.

[Thelema]

LEONOTIS LEONORUS 25X

US17 per gram at

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:_Zismra...ONOTIS+25&hl=en

US14 per gram at

http://www.mazatecgarden.com/products/smok...king_blends.htm

not THAT hard to find, took me less than 2 minutes. Are you going to beat US14 per gram of 25X friendly?

[ 15. February 2005, 00:46: Message edited by: Thelema ]

[friendly]

I had no idea it was even available.

I must be getting old.

I will see if I can beat those prices, though.

Selling it by the individual gram would be a real pain in the ass; the stuff is like honey.

I suppose if you froze it it would be easier to work with, but still, what an enormous amount of effort for an old, lazy herbalist.

I probably wouldn't sell anything smaller than 3.5g.

And, thinking about it, I could probably sell it for $10.00 a gram in small quantities and for less in bulk.

I will let you know.

[apothecary]

US14 a gram means more than AU20 a gram, which is how much pretty much everyone in Australia pays for their weed.

You're gonna have a hard time convincing people to give it a go if it costs more than the good shit :/

[psycho0]

where do u get pure ethanol, isopropyl? a chem supplier

like science supply australia? thats where i got ether from

cheers

obviously high proof vodka isn't strong enough?

[apothecary]

Try fronine. www.fronine.com.au ...they have everything!

[John_Barleycorn]

friendly:

Also, I believe the extract I have to be newly made; it may lose potency in a short time for all I know.

The other perennial issue is whether it is OK to extract dried plant material or not.

[John_Barleycorn]

Torsten:

wet ethanol extraction uses non-anhydrous ethanol. ie, ethanol that has not had its azeotropic water removed. basically all commercial metho in oz qualifies for this criteria. So this extract can be made using plain metho.

I'm not so sure that all commercial metho is derived from fermentation, and even if it is, there is nothing to stop the manufacturers from drying it. Some of the bitter residue could in fact be remnants of some sort of drying salt, as much as a denaturant. Digger's MSDS certainly doesn't suggest that there is any water in there.

[Torsten]

John, anhydrous ethanol is considerably more expensive than wet ethanol.

[friendly]

As soon as you open a container of anhydrous alcohol it begins to absorb water vapor from the atmosphere, thereby losing it's anhydrous nature in a fairly short time.

[gerbil]

Thanks very much for the muscle relaxation/analgesic addition friendly. This is sounding more interesting by the minute, now to save $ for an omchi purchase have been meaning to check out your ginseng too. Ah so many choices yay.