pure insanity

[Mt.B]

The friend that comes with me most of the time when I go out to the bush to take photos of mushrooms has finally found some space in their life to try some of them. They pick them, I'm just happy to take pictures of them. They're new to taking them and is doing it to try and do inter work not for recreational. Here's their most recent Experience.

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01.08.2010

4 grams for dried Subs (collected late April 2010) in lemon tea extraction 1st thing (after a few glasses of water) in the morning after 9hrs of OK sleep.

I went into the preparation and Experience wanting to explore some personal things that I'd like to change. This was done by talking about it out aloud to myself, basically just acknowledging it.

I used music (Bonobo - Dial 'M' For Monkey) while waiting for it to kick in and help smooth the transition. After the music had finished it was time to see what would happen. I was in a house in a small rural town with no one else present. This made for a comfortable setting. This was my 3rd dose around the 3-4 dried gram mark. Before this it has just been a few smaller doses to test the waters. Out of all of these there has only been one Experience with hallucinations, with all the others effecting my mind/thoughts. This was a mind/thought Experience mostly. It's hard to explain but it is like a thought will come into my mind and it will loop over and over again getting faster and faster until I snap out of it. Then another thought will come along and the looping of that thought will happen. The thoughts are not complex or deep, just basic 'doing thoughts'. I feel very disorientated as it like I'm trying to remember how to do the simplest of tasks and the looping could be my way of not letting go of the martial world. An example of a loop; Looking at my phone to try and figure out how much time has elapsed. I keep going back to my phone and each time I go to it, the less I can comprehend it, to the point were it's just numbers and they don't make any sense. I find it frustrating and it happened with such ferocity that this time I felt like I was experiencing pure insanity. It felt incessant even though I'd told myself during my preparation that whatever I would experience would only be temporary. I remember slumping over the table feeling like I was a vegetable as my mind felt like it had turned to mush and that I would not return from this state. But I did. And as I felt the warm reflective part of the Experience begin to peep through I moved to the floor and laid on my back and welcomed a feeling of purity. It felt like I'd been mentally striped right back and now I had the opportunity to put myself back the the way I wished to. So I did. Time will tell if it will hold.

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Since my friend is new to this, they would like to know if upping the dose might have the potential of breaking through the mind fuck or is it maybe just the need to let go more.

[Rabaelthazar]

Hey Mt B,

I'd suggest that your friend could even try a lower dose of around a gram just a few times. Sounds like your friend's chosen a good place to indulge. I've found that low doses can be very pleasant and only last an hour or so. Lie back on the couch and just sort of meditate.

It's a bit like dating a beautiful woman. First of all you do something low key that you can both enjoy and just sort of get to know each other a little better. On the next few dates, you might accidentally brush hands which might lead to a kiss goodnight. When the time is right, you can throw abandon to the wind and get to know each other intimately. As your friend gets to know the shrooms, a relationship will develop and it can bloom from there.

I personally wouldn't be upping the dose yet. Hope your friend finds true love.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Rabaelthazar

[mutant]

Hey mate, cheers, thanks for sharing

You said that person delved into it wanting to explore personal things, yet you said there was indeed activity and results in that realm with the lower doses. You didn't mention what doses these were, but I sense your friend was being a bit hasty, maybe expecting stuff to work out faster than they can normally do?

Doing these kind of stuff in small periods of time never felt good to me, I alwasy liked to let time pass in between, from a couple of months to a couple of years.

IME psych experiences, even low end / normal doses take time to grow in you.

Here're some drafts of mine concerning psych use for personal growth and insight:

As far as personal issues and change, maybe the first step is analysis, realising what things should be changed, what's best for a person. LSA seeds are good for that too IMO, if you're not too much of a hardhead and you're compatible with the material. Then after the first experience-analysis, wait, let grow, work sober.

Then, after some time, maybe repeat & try to, along with making new assumptions and correcting current consensus, maybe work out and make past realisations more aware, stabilise the 'right' ones, those that have been 'confirmed' by positive vibes in the psych experiences and verified and pointed out by common sense and every day interactions in normal life.

People say big doses are essential to connect with the other, not particularly the self, right?

So I am very inclined to say that for conscious working with the self, low-end, normal, medium doses maybe more succesful in general , or at least that's sure for some explorers - unless the person is trying to break something very hard or has persnal reasons he needs to go to deep unexplored regions of the self, but I wouldn't know what these reason would be.

====

Now as for as this loop is concerned, I know what you mean, I have felt it, and I remember reading {in tripzine i think] that a method to break the loop and let the experience go on, is -re-dose a very small portion of the original dose you took so as to be able to break the endless session of loops. It makes sense to me, but haven't ever tried it. It would take effect in an instant it seems. This loopy thing is reminiscent of what sometimes happens on ac id, which is not irrelevant I reckon with the longer duration of ac id, which might not be unpleasant or particularly annoying, but it ends up somewhat tiring at the end. I suspect that with big doses of shrooms, when duration is extended to 8h+, maybe more, there might be some similar effect. How long did the 4gr experience last?

All in all I find 4-6 hours of effects [lsa, shrooms] more approapriate for self-insight, rather than loger lasting trips.

Also, IME, time to think about personal issues is maybe better after the peak and the 'wows' of the first part of the experience.

But that's just me, thinking aloud.

I would love to see more opinions!

Edited August 2, 2010 by mutant

[t st tantra]

try 1.5gms with vit c !

would be interesting to hear if that is better....

t s t .

[Mt.B]

Thanks to you all for taking the time in responding.

It's sounds like low dosing might be worth revisiting. They experienced 4 x 1-2grams sessions before moving onto 3-4grams. These lower dose sessions were more used in a recreational sense, relax, enjoy the internal light show and get a feel for the material type setting.

They have done a lot of personal work prior to using entheogens and feel that this is the next phase in their growth. Even though thus far the experiences using psilocybin at 3-4 grams could be seen by some as a 'bad trip', the lessons learned and brought back have all had positive effects in their consensus reality.

[Rabaelthazar]

Even though thus far the experiences using psilocybin at 3-4 grams could be seen by some as a 'bad trip', the lessons learned and brought back have all had positive effects in their consensus reality.

 

I think I know what you mean by this, although I don't really believe in bad trips when taken for the purpose of self exploration. Unless something actually goes wrong in your physical world (which can happen), the difficulties inside your mind are all a part of it. Sounds like your friend has integrated well, which is the important bit.

Large doses of psilocybin can be as profound as any other entheogen (IMO), but if you're mind is resisting you might find that you're not taken to those amazing places.

I remember a long time ago dosing on a bucketload of acid (after not having any for a while) with the idea of finding something amazing. I didn't prepare myself for the experience and ended up spending 7 hours walking around the botanical gardens with a huge black spot right in my vision. Everywhere I looked, every though I had, every thing was this black spot. No colours, no movement, no joy. Finally, after all that time of really not enjoying myself, I managed somehow to break through the loop and had a pleasant few hours before I came back to earth. That was a difficult trip and I put it down to taking much more than was really necessary. Having said that, I really learned a lot about myself that day.

Same goes for a lot of entheogens in my opinion. There's a lot to be said for slowly increasing the dose and, as Mutant said, spacing the doses out over time. Then again, there's a lot to be said for doing a massive dose and throwing yourself in the deep end. Your friend has tried a low dose, tried a large-ish dose. Perhaps a really big dose would be right for your friend. Only he can know for sure.

If he does it in a safe, responsible environment there's not really much that could go wrong. Just make sure there's someone your friend could call on if he needed it. Entheogen work is such a personal thing, the answers can really only come from within.

[Chiral]

might wanna read this thread... http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21506

and this one... http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21281

and yet another...pretty fucking crazy sub trips and a few attempts to understand and work them out... http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21061

[Amazonian]

This place is like a spiders web. Each link takes you somewhere else and then there's more, branching out, just like mycelium i suppose. I really do enjoy reading peoples experiences. Mt B, I am sure it WILL be better for your Friend next time.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Amazonian

[Mt.B]

Hey mate, cheers, thanks for sharing

As far as personal issues and change, maybe the first step is analysis, realising what things should be changed, what's best for a person. LSA seeds are good for that too IMO, if you're not too much of a hardhead and you're compatible with the material. Then after the first experience-analysis, wait, let grow, work sober.

A little more back ground on my friend would help; Non smoker/drinker, Started work with a Herbalist to overcome depression nearly 3 yrs ago, which also lead to a diet change (Vego without any dairy). They have gone for 2 1/2 yrs without an episode. They would have had one within a 6 month period if 20 yrs of history is to go by. One of the 'side effects' of the treatment the Herbalist said would be that you would start to 'think differently'. Within 6 months they had started Meditation, changed from being a 'sheeple' to falling into the rabbit hole. This lead them also to psychedelic thinking and the use of entheogens. Curiosity has got the better of them and they are now experimenting with Phylosybin. They like to think of it as an evolutionary movement through the healing plant kingdom

Then, after some time, maybe repeat & try to, along with making new assumptions and correcting current consensus, maybe work out and make past realisations more aware, stabilise the 'right' ones, those that have been 'confirmed' by positive vibes in the psych experiences and verified and pointed out by common sense and every day interactions in normal life.

People say big doses are essential to connect with the other, not particularly the self, right?

Cool, thanks for this. Lots of these things are raised in some martial they are currently working from that they have resonated with. It's a book called "Being Human: And Entheological Guide to God, Evolution, and the Fractal Energetic Nature of Reality"

Though with the exception on dose. Large is the prescribed method. Though they are still going to go back and revisit and refine low dose usage.

How long did the 4gr experience last?

It was just over the 4hr mark

Also, IME, time to think about personal issues is maybe better after the peak and the 'wows' of the first part of the experience.

They would agree with you here.

[Mt.B]

might wanna read this thread... http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21506

and this one... http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21281

and yet another...pretty fucking crazy sub trips and a few attempts to understand and work them out... http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21061

 

Thanks for digging up your posts. They will certainly take the time to read them.

Edited August 4, 2010 by Mt.B

[ThunderIdeal]

for the record, the threads chiral linked you to talk about exceptionally large doses. frankly going anywhere near that dose should not even be entering your mind until you're more experienced although i'd suggest even with experience very few people would go there. i just wanted to make that clear.

i reckon you need more experience before exceeding four, especially with the comment that you experienced what felt like 'pure insanity' and the fact that you suffer depression. it could just be that you're not comfortable enough with psychadelics yet. don't be afraid but forget about trying to 'punch through' or anything until you've had a few more goes, there's no big rush, most people take more doses and more time to work their way up to 4 g. i have to admit that FOAF has powerful urges to keep upping the dose but FOAF also took close to a decade to work up to the dose you have tried after just a few trips.

i don't know how to respond to the 'no hallucinations' thing, it boggles my mind. without rambling on too much, i just suggest you try tripping on your bed with your eyes shut. you don't want too much light or disturbing noises, music is good but no music is also good. forget that you have eyes, even though OEV can be great i basically feel that CEV is where most of the work gets done, also OEV goes much better with nature rather than indoors.

don't worry about looking at your phone to see how much time has passed, that information is almost entirely pointless, same as all of the other external shit you might distract yourself with. you might be right about needing to learn how to let go, it isn't something that comes naturally... it's an ability that grows as you try it day after day, thousands of times.

[mutant]

they sound like sensible guys. Tell them there's not hurry, the whole life in in front of them.