Ethno's vs mdma

[Chiral]

It's all about the receptors man...synthed stuff has the benefit of being able to target certain receptors, amphetamine rings being the most well known and workable, euphoria, stimulation, apathy and increased sex drive etc..

Seems nature is not interested in narcissistic feelings, rather it's attitude is more one of .."WAKE THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNTS CAN'T YOU SEE WHATS REALLY GOING HERE" ...you can't...? well here you go have some visuals to let us show you...as we all know it's easier to read a book with pictures innit.

no pain no gain when it comes to ethno's...it's all just fun and games lots of smiles with most synthed stuff, the nature of their design to get you happy and high.

[Atlas]

the mdma experience is soooooo much deeper than just the euphoria and pleasurable tactile sensations. if thats all you are looking for sceletium can produce a similar combo of euphoria, energy, tingliness, and wanting to melt into the couch...but mdma is so much more. emotional and psychological healing, like a therapist. in the same vein as psychedelics it can open your eyes to countless new possibilities and help you reorient yourself. ive seen quite a few of these lists trying to find a plant that is close to mdma and afaik there just isnt one. every list is a list of plants that cause euphoria or increased tactile sensation, and thats about it, none of the plants listed, with the exception of mescaline/trichocereus, can even come close to producing the full, rich, and meaningful experiences that mdma provides.

 

should be noted, "If you can get reasonably pure stuff"

So many fakes and fillers around

[Atlas]

and mild to uncontrolable shitting and vomiting, seen "lets go to prison"?

 

hahahah nice

[mutant]

Narcissistic feelings? What do you mean by that? Of course nature needs us to take care of ourself, our image and ego.

What about coke leaves, opioids and khat that are pleasant and ego pampering all along for every taker?

Generalisations like this don't really serve some goal other than giving former synth-abusers an alibi to abuse natural drugs or to advertise the silly notion it's ok to take natural drugs but it's wrong to do synths.

as we all know it's easier to read a book with pictures innit.

yep, but usually the pictures in a book are in accordance with the books theme

[Chiral]

Narcissistic feelings? What do you mean by that? Of course nature needs us to take care of ourself, our image and ego.

Well people generally take synths to feel good... take on the hedonistic lifestyle of narcissism and nihilism...to be selfish and make yourself feel good and say fuck it I wanna feel like and god and I don't care.

What about coke leaves, opioids and khat that are pleasant and ego pampering all along for every taker?

coke leaves are foremost as a stimulant to overcome fatigue, hunger, and thirst. It is considered particularly effective against altitude sickness. It also is used as an anesthetic to alleviate the pain of headache, rheumatism, wounds and sores, etc. I don't see how they can be used to get wasted and talk shit with the opposite sex while slurping on apple martini's hoping to get laid.

opiods...only dried pods are natural and they can be used to feel good but addiction is no laughing matter...other opiods are obviously synthed up in labs.

Khat....I hardly think khat is ego pampering or pleasant to be honest, and you need to quid up a shit load during the day to actually get a little tiny buzz happening, even then the high is slightly yuk...so hedonistic use there really, good for toiling in the fields perhaps or walking 123 miles to look for food or water.

Generalisations like this don't really serve some goal other than giving former synth-abusers an alibi to abuse natural drugs or to advertise the silly notion it's ok to take natural drugs but it's wrong to do synths.

No matter how many times I read this I don't think I get it sorry...this thread is about..are there any ethno's that can make you feel like mdma does..? soooo along my lines of thought and I think you misinterpreted me again....my point is that nature has it's natural compounds that are active if they activate certain receptors, generally these are not huge endorphin or serotonin releasing molecules, rather they act and work on more fundamental and intrinsic levels. Synths have the benefit of looking and maping our brains and using clever chem to stimulate and active receptors that give us fake pleasure...usually at a high cost.

yep, but usually the pictures in a book are in accordance with the books theme

 

So you are saying the visuals from psychedelics are not in accordance with the drug it's self...I have to wholeheartedly disagree here...how many mecaline trips involve beautiful imagery of nature and plants, cactus themselves are a predominate aspect of the mescaline trip, so is adoring nature, from where the drug came from, so it is relevant.

Same with mushrooms...DMT is in a bit of a league of it's own, though imagery does have a general theme in the DMT space, just haven't worked out what it's relevance to an alkaloid found in random plants in random parts of the world...maybe that's it...it's random imagery is based around it's randomness...

[mutant]

it's cool when you not being a dick and smartass when you reply!

I will get back. Leaving work now, have a nice shroomy weekend, here it's dry as fuck

[t st tantra]

i mentioned the kiss method/theory in the ozaya thread.

this can be used to drop out non mesc alkaloids from cactus brew.i assume that cactus powder sold at hhh was something like this.these are fairly mild but apparently fairly empathogenic.

atlas,plant in q has not been mentioned yet.....

t s t .

[Atlas]

i mentioned the kiss method/theory in the ozaya thread.

this can be used to drop out non mesc alkaloids from cactus brew.i assume that cactus powder sold at hhh was something like this.these are fairly mild but apparently fairly empathogenic.

atlas,plant in q has not been mentioned yet.....

t s t .

 

Any hints?

[mutant]

Tst can't seem to find the thread you suggested

offtopic

{{{{{{{We finally have rain after 2-3 months!!!! Hope some last morels show up till the end of may!!!!>>>>

Chiral>>>

I think you got a point if your taking it to the 'whole plant' VS extracted / isolated compound/group of conpounds point . This is also true for a range of botanical drugs, so I think there's a more holistic effect range in whole plants, compared to more focused action when using isolated compounds. I am also definately leaning pro holistic approach...

Plus, another view of this, is that using natural drugs as the 'good stuff' can be used by people with druggie/addictive minds as pseudo-alibis to abuse them, after quitting the synthetics. I have met such people. They know they have to quit drugs, but they convinvce themselves it's OK to do them as long as they're 'natural'

But on the other hand I regard all psychoactive substances that have euphoric action, and this is also true for classic psychedelics as potentially hedonistic. Chasing 'hedone' [from the greek ηδονή = pleasure ] is something pretty normal. I am just saying this hedonistic, euphoric, self pleasuring thing is present in the whole range of stimulant plants and drugs, maybe a dopamine thing?

Some drugs are more hedonic thus potentially hedonistic than others, sure, mdma, speed and coke are all starring on top of the list. I think coke is the less psychedelic of all, coke seems to do almost everyone

So you are saying the visuals from psychedelics are not in accordance with the drug it's self...I have to wholeheartedly disagree here...how many mecaline trips involve beautiful imagery of nature and plants, cactus themselves are a predominate aspect of the mescaline trip, so is adoring nature, from where the drug came from, so it is relevant.

I am not saying exactly this, but the facts you give about mescaline reports really say nothing man if we don't know what kind of guy is he who reports, don't you think?

That's why I think real-life narrated trip reports are by far superior and enlightening our aspect of the psychedelic exeperience, than just speaking abvout it in a forum, or writting a trip report. Also, most people don't even include very important info [about the set, the person itself] in the report, so most trip reports are not so useful for serious work, IMO.

Edited May 17, 2010 by mutant

[hutch]

I confirm

mescaline molecule does bare some resemblances with the MD complex, no?

 

I must agree...on the back end of the trip..or so I was told...

[Atlas]

Well T st Tantra, I believe my thread has run its course and I have not turned over what I was pursuing, perhaps I may be enlightened me now...

[woof woof woof]

I have had a reasonably close experiance from chocamine, it doesnt seen to happen very often but it does happen every now and then. Some of my friends also have had the same experiances..

Im sure it must be in combo with something else that we have had through the day (maybe Taurine in energy drinks)But i think it realy is worth more research.

 

I have had mdma euphoria like moments on various stimmulants, combined with some other herb, but like you said, it does not always happen. Could be due to a number of factors. From

# 1 how well rested you are,

# 2 the amount of nuerotransmittors that can be made available. So iow.. how well nourished your body is at that time.

# 3 your metabolism

# 4 how much you move

# 5 the overall vibe of where you are.

# 6 music (thumping pumping repetitive beat kind reccomended)

# 7 dancing (Endorphins from dancing or excersize)

# 8 WILLING YOURSELF TO HIGHER HIGHS. < this one is really important I think. Its like just feeling your entire body and willing every cell of your body to produce the desired coctail of feelgood transmittors. I actually think you can train yourself to feel euphoria at will trough meditation/self hypnosis.

smoking brugmansia leaves, combined with ERB..... the tropanes give a slight flying feeling due to attachment to chloregenic receptors that are plentiful in the skeletal muscles.... you get the same 'whoaa' feeling through your entire body like you get when you are about to lift a bucket or box which you tink is full of things but turns out to be empty.

just some ideas

[woof woof woof]

wot about some l-dopa and 5htp at the same time. anyone tried that? maybe combined with a hit of xanthines.

safrole, geranamine, ephedrine, xanthines...... just a list of things which i'm guessing cannot ever replicate x

 

thunderI!... yeh,... l-dopa & 5htp... for sure. Velvet bean.. has both if I remember correctly.

Some of the bodybuilding products out there are pretty good too. Hydroxycut (plenty of other brands have interesting combinations too) with some erb... avoid alcohol.

I guess,.. all herbs (so likely a combination of them) that stimmulate or mimic dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin & endorphins (all the feelgood NT's) should give a reasonable euphoria experience.

but like in the previous post..... your body needs to be in good condition (so excersize regularly you fukko's out there! hahaha..... it helps!)

I must add,... meditation helps. calming your mind helps! cant add enough attention on this point. meditation & excersize lift your self esteem, condfidence... In other words,.. you have more feelgood NT's in your system.

hope this helps!

[Atlas]

Cool, sounds pretty reasonable

[snaps]

deleted

Edited May 27, 2010 by snaps

[shruman]

"which with the correct MDMA synth tek will produce PMA."

You would need anethole which is not in camphor laurel or camphor oil to make PMA.

"Khat is similar to MDMA basically because of the ephedrine component, you get a mild euphoria/speedy disposition which is attributed to the precursor to MDMA : pseudoephedrine"

What the hell does this mean?, I dont want to be rude but do you have any chemistry knowledge?. Pseudo is'nt a precursor to MDMA, MA maybe. Khat does not contain ephedrine.

Do you have a source on camphor oils neurotoxicity?

[snaps]

"which with the correct MDMA synth tek will produce PMA."

You would need anethole which is not in camphor laurel or camphor oil to make PMA.

"Khat is similar to MDMA basically because of the ephedrine component, you get a mild euphoria/speedy disposition which is attributed to the precursor to MDMA : pseudoephedrine"

What the hell does this mean?, I dont want to be rude but do you have any chemistry knowledge?. Pseudo is'nt a precursor to MDMA, MA maybe. Khat does not contain ephedrine.

Do you have a source on camphor oils neurotoxicity?

 

sorry i was thinking of meth instead of mdma and anise oil instead of camphor oil. ill find an extract of the source. --> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/410566

Edited May 27, 2010 by snaps

[t st tantra]

recently recalled an old post by a prominent and very experienced member of the oz ethno community but took a bit to locate this thread again.

approx report was....

5 doses of fly brewed with 5 doses of cactus produced 20[!]doses described as being mdma like.

maybe inquire at ae and see if anyone pops up with more info....

i dont recall any further investigations of this....

t s t .

[mud]

Some of the herbal mixes do come close

those containing chocamine are the closest to mdma that i've tried.

But as mentioned, the vibe and music and dancing all affect the effects greatly.

[fydesvindico]

i've had similar effects after consuming a strong ginkgo, ephedra and guarana tea before heading out and then sucking on a kola nut for the remainder of the night... a bit of an effort but it's worth it if you have the herbs handy.

[Atlas]

recently recalled an old post by a prominent and very experienced member of the oz ethno community but took a bit to locate this thread again.

approx report was....

5 doses of fly brewed with 5 doses of cactus produced 20[!]doses described as being mdma like.

maybe inquire at ae and see if anyone pops up with more info....

i dont recall any further investigations of this....

t s t .

 

T st, you didnt list your elusive plant i've been after for so long did you???? is fly, fly agaric? or am i a little behind with a name for something else, im pretty bad with non spec names

[t st tantra]

no,yes.

t s t .

[Evening Glory]

The only herbal product I have found to be comparable to the euphoria and empathogenic effects of MDMA is mescaline cacti. Mescaline really have some of the same quality as MDMA. Shulgin actually resynthesized MDMA in search of a compound that could have the effect of mescaline without hallucinations.

Mescaline or full-spectrum alkaloid extract from cacti is especially wonderful when combined with caapi or an other source for harmala-alkaloids. Picture the wonderful feeling when coming up on MDMA lasting for hours. Truly wonderful! All the other herbal alternatives is to my mind poor substitutes. They all lack even similarities to the true MDMA feeling.

[mutant]

5 doses of fly brewed with 5 doses of cactus produced 20[!]doses described as being mdma like.

wow that's interesting, and kind of makes sense. Cactus come close to mdma empathy, but I also other stuff can do it given time, body and mind is 'right', I once had very empathic moments on A. pantherinas [~3gr dried] and little herb, never so much in other amanita experiences. I don't believe it was pantherina VS muscaria, it was just a very good setting for this. Night, at an island beach, awesome, very nice anamnesis

But what kind of doses of fly in proportion to cactus dose? would them be mid-high [10-15 dried grams] or more into breakthrough realm [18-25 gr] ??

This is pretty exciting. Someone will definately be trying that at some point

I have long thought about combos of amanitas with anything, but I only experiment along my own habits and not so into more novel paths...

thanks!!!

Edited August 9, 2010 by mutant

[hutch]

no,yes.

t s t .

 

Can you be brought?

Maybe a joint slush fund for such things... I'm flat out getting things right when I have the instruction book in front of me so I have no chance of sucking riddles out of millions of post's and putting them back together....

Edit - no for know...

Edited August 9, 2010 by hutch