Empathogenesis?

[Alchemica]

It's easy enough to recognise oneness with the cosmos; that we are all a part of the whole yet have differences that make each individual unique and able to offer their own speciality but do entheogens allow for awakening not just the divine, but for "empathogenesis"? Sure, there has to be a lifestyle change and willingness to work towards it, but are humans of today designed to love all and feel enriched with empathy without forcing some false way of life?

Empathogenesis is a feeling of emotional closeness to others (and also to one's self) coupled with a breakdown of personal communication barriers. It also denotes a feeling of general well being and hopefulness about the present & the future, and the ability to appreciate others the increased emotional closeness makes personal contact quite rewarding.

(paraphrased from both text contained in "the book of E" by Push & Mirielle Silcott. OMNIBUS PRESS, 2000; and personal experience/journey)

As the world becomes more and more segregated religiously, politically, morally etc it seems to be that empathy/beneficial emotions continues to be lost, too. I'm apparently "wired" wrong for empathy but I also see more and more the world heading into "fight-or-flight" or empathy/emotion only for a small group, not a whole.

To look at it from the Hed-Web way (not saying I'm in agreement with any of it):

"...our genetically-enriched descendants are likely to view us as little better than psychopaths. For the role of key receptor sub-types of the 'civilising neurotransmitter' serotonin, the 'hormone of love' oxytocin, and the 'chocolate amphetamine' phenylethylamine, needs to be radically enhanced. When naturally loved-up and blissed-out on a richer cocktail of biochemicals than today, our post-human successors will be able, not just to love everyone, but to be perpetually in love with everyone as well.

It's been said that when we're in love, we find it astonishing that it's possible to love someone else so much - because normally we love each other so little. This indifference, or at best diffuse benevolence, to the rest of the world's population is easily taken for granted in a competitive consumerist society - or on the plains of the harsh African savannah. Quasi-psychopathic callousness forms part of 'normal' archaic mental health. Yet our deficiencies in love are only another grim manifestation of selfish DNA. If humans had collectively shared the greater degree of genetic relatedness common to many of the social insects (haplodiploidy), then we might already 'naturally' be able to love each other with greater enthusiasm. Sociobiologists would then explain why we all loved each other so deeply, not so little."

Once one recognises the oneness of everything, surely genetic differences are nothing.

Are todays living conditions and ways of life merely causing "mutant less-empathetic" life forms and expression of the wrong genes, proteins and emotions?

Plants certainly do bring people and the whole web of existance together but do we have empathogen/entactogen plants?

Besides the lifestyle one can implement which integrates a close relationship with the natural world, people, work, spirituality/religion, what else what brings forward natural empathogenesis?

Edit - An Experiential Typology of Sacred Plants : http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2009/01/...-sacred-plants/

Edited September 1, 2009 by Alchemica

[ThunderIdeal]

that genetic enrichment mentioned in the quote; most urgently needed technology ever?

i think you're asking a difficult question and i've chosen not to post several replies. i had gone into how the natural selection chopping block cares not for it's timing, or what kind of future genetic pathways it negates permanently with every tightening of the bio noose.

our emotional/mental baggage blocks out that empathic state i think, same as when you are in that empathic state it blocks out our baggage. the two do not see eye to eye, well they both have very different views so the middle ground i think is when an empathogen starts dwindling away, and baggage starts voicing his opinion but empathy is still felt in each moment.

rather bluntly i'm going to ask, is there an empathogen that's reasonably cheap and safe to use reasonably regularly.... at doses which cause noticeable empathy? i bet there isn't, but it's a shame mdma isn't cheaper and more wide spread.

[Alchemica]

Thanks for the input , agree it was a bit of a strange question, just making the most of my gloomy, over-intellectualising and darker opinions as they consume me lately.

Personally, I see the genetic enrichment as potentially hazardous:

"And it seems to me perfectly in the cards that there will be within the next generation or so a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing...a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda, brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods."

Aldous Huxley, 1959

With the fairly recent development of nonpeptide oxytocin agonists ("Drugs of the Future"), Huxley might not be far off...

Probably right with the emotional/mental baggage disagreement being the blockage and our own will not to be liberated from them leading to the negative emotions.

As for better, safer entactogen/empathogens, plenty of dreamers dream about it. Not enough researchers get funding for it. Everyone seems to have differing opinions on "substitutes".

The Conversation Between Soul and Spirit seems like an interesting approach to look at the whole empathy/emotion/heart thing, http://integral-options.blogspot.com/2007/...and-spirit.html

just freeing up my mind to get it happening in action rather than words is the quest, it seems.

[ThunderIdeal]

wonder if the same two things are being discussed in the above link and this merkaba-based bit of text

"For various reasons I cannot go into detailed metaphysical explanations as to the underlying philosophy of this shadowy Sephirah, though students who desire more infor mation about it will discover the elaboration of this theme in my Garden of Pornegranates and My Rosicrucian Adventure. Suffice to say here that it arises from a consideration of the process of evolution on the one hand, and the two pillars previously referred to, on the other. The ancient philosophers who developed this system believed that as man evolved, that is to say as he developed sufficient control over his emotions as to be able to remain poised in a detachment from the dual pull of the opposites, so there developed within him a new faculty of discrimination and spiritual discern ment. Psychologically this idea has been verified. For it has been said that as the over activity of the superficial mind, the flitting from one thing to another, prevents creativeness, so equally does inertia, dullness and the unwillingness to move. If fact, any of the two extremes or opposite modes of behavior or thinking are characteris tic of the unevolved man. As was said by one magician "The Secret of Wisdom can be discerned only from the place of balanced power" (2) - that is from between the two temple pillars. Poise at a third point, which neutralizes to some extent the violence of the swing of the psychic pendulum from one extreme to the other, is the result of cultivating equanimity representing an equal capacity to be either at rest or active, interested or withdrawn at will, and not from emotional compulsion.

This central point between the two symbolic pillars of the opposites, the place of balanced power from which the working of the opposites may correctly be viewed, is the implication of Daath, which is the name of this shadowy Sephirah. Rightly it is shadowy and the word is used advisedly for in the majority of us who have not culti vated the difficult art of avoiding the opposites, the development of this new principle has proceeded with the utmost slowness. It is a new factor of adaptation or equilibrium, especially between the two broad divisions of consciousness - the ego on the one hand with its desire for adjustment to modem life with its refined and non-natural conditions, and on the other hand with the superficial levels of the instinctual life, concerned with primitive things, of self-assertion and the unbridled gratification of its every whim and caprice. It is this new factor of adjustment which comprises the principal impetus to what has been variously called in the east the Golden Flower, and in mediaeval Europe the growth of the Red Rose upon the Cross of Gold. (3) It is the Stone of the Philosophers, the medicine of metals. (4)"

anyway, your spirit/soul link finishes up talking about heart and that's probably where i'd look, come to think of it. make soul and spirit endeavours (author's definitions) both from the heart. i find spending time on the chakra system very rewarding.

rather bluntly i'm going to ask, is there an empathogen that's reasonably cheap and safe to use reasonably regularly.... at doses which cause noticeable empathy? i bet there isn't, but it's a shame mdma isn't cheaper and more wide spread.

by the way it shouldn't make you vomit and trip.

Edited September 3, 2009 by ThunderIdeal

[t st tantra]

had a thought regarding cathedrals recently and yesterday walking past the masonic hall i noticed that it also had 3 front doors.these i think represent the 3 pillars....3 ways to heaven?

[as an aside i noted side doors,assume a rear door and there was a prominent underground entry through the underneath of the main entry foyer....]

are the l and r pillars analogous to the l and r sides of the brain?

logic is often associated with the l side of the brain and emotions with the r..

is this where the issue lies.....with r brain functioning or l/r communication....does the 3rd/central pillar represent l/r communication?

http://www.webofqabalah.com/id35.html

The Three Pillars on the Tree of Life

The Three Pillars of Qabalah - Severity, Mercy and Balance

In addition to being divisable into the four worlds the Tree of Life can also be divided into three vertical pillars. All of the spheres belong to one of these three pillars and share particular characteristics with the other pillars which belong to that Pillar. The three pillars are called: The Pillar of Severity, The Pillar of Mercy and The Pillar of Balance.

The Pillar of Mercy

Is found on the right hand side of diagrams of the Tree of Life, and is associated with the left hand side of the body and right-brain functions. It is composed of the following spheres

Chokmah

Chesed

Netzache

The top sphere - Chokmah - is the sphere of Yang, the highest sphere of the masculine, whereas the lower spheres are generally considered to have feminine characteristics. This is Yang at the centre of Yin, as shown in the famous Taoist symbol.

The Pillar of Severity

The Pillar of severity lies on the left hand side of the Tree of life as you look at it as a diagram drawn on a piece of paper, but on the right hand side of the body. It is associated with 'left brain' functions. It is composed of the following sephira:

Binah

Geburah

Hod

Binah, the Great Sea, is the sphere of Yin, the highest aspects of the feminine principles, whereas the lower spheres, representing war and science, are generally considered to be masculine. This is the Yin at the centre of Yang

The Pillar of Balance

This is the 'middle pillar' which runs up the centre of the Tree. It is associated with balance, holism and integration. It is composed of the following spheres:

Kether

Tipareth

Yesod

Malkuth

lightning or a thunderbolt is a symbol associated with mekaba level theory in many cultures.

vajra etc in tantra and as a zigzag moving left and right from top to bottom of the tree of life.

t s t .

depending on which way you are looking from, the pillars may apparently be reversed.

Edited September 3, 2009 by t st tantra

[coin]

see caduceus

ida, pingala, sushumna nadis

swara yoga

[t st tantra]

can we have no emotions?.....feeling nothing,or a lack is still feeing[emotion]?

gloomy or depressed are emotional states not states of no emotion?

can you feel depressed if you dont experience emotions?

t s t .

the idea came to ask these q's,dont know if they will lead anywhere.....earlier i was thinking of the science concept of heat....and that there is no cold only the absence of heat....hmm,the absence of emotions....its a sliding scale...absolute zero exists?i dont know.....sometime i just feel the urge to throw some concept into a thread!

[Alchemica]

Cheers for the input t st, gave me something to think about... seems apathy and the sense of being unable to express (out of fearing or misunderstanding) emotions is probably just as much an issue, rather than the problem being "no emotion".

Found a few papers that look potentially interesting (haven't had a chance to read properly yet), will share them incase anyone else is interested:

Transpersonal Psychology in Heart-Centered Therapies

Diane Zimberoff, M.A. and David Hartman, MSW*

Abstract: We look at areas of potential conflict in spiritual involvement in psychotherapy:

the degree of the therapist’s personal openness, dogmatic rigidity or unresolved spiritual

conflicts that may influence the client through countertransference. We review areas of

intersection between spiritual realms and Heart-Centered therapies, particularly ways of

directly accessing the client’s soul or, conversely, healing loss of soul through soul retrieval.

One of the traditions that provides the needed “technology of consciousness” is the

shamanistic healing approach. We note similarities between the shamanic state of

consciousness (SSC) and that of clients in Heart-Centered therapeutic states, as well as the

experience of young children (“Except ye become as little children, ye shall not enter into

the kingdom of heaven”). Other traditions that provide “technologies of consciousness” for

incorporating spiritual with psychological growth include Jungian psychology and

Kundalini meditation.

Primary topics

1. Spiritual realms – the soul

2. Shamanic healing approach

3. Chakras and Kundalini meditation

http://www.heartcenteredtherapies.org/go/d...20Therapies.pdf

The Existential Approach in Heart-Centered Therapies

Abstract: The amalgam of Heart-Centered therapies is highly eclectic, yet uniquely and

specifically organized. Heart-Centered therapies are located within the traditions of deep

experiential psychotherapy, and existential-humanistic psychology. The existential approach

in psychotherapy is organized around life on earth itself and the social, cultural and spiritual

ramifications of it, that is, the “human condition.” People’s existential issues are related to

their mortality and impermanence, their experience of freedom of choice (or lack of it), their

sense of worthiness, and their sense of separation/ connection with others. We review the

contributions of Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Heidegger, Sartre, Bugental, Binswanger, Fromm,

Laing, Sullivan, May, Frankl, and Yalom. We identify five themes that pervade

existentialism: (1) meaning in life is found in the living of each moment; (2) passionate

commitment to a way of life, to one’s purpose and one’s relationships, is the highest form of

expression of one’s humanity; (3) all human beings have freedom of choice and

responsibility for our choices; (4) openness to experience allows for the greatest possible

expansion of personal expression; and (5) in the ever-present face of death itself, we find the

deepest commitment to life itself.

We also address the relationship between experiential psychotherapy, the existential

approach, and Heart-Centered therapies. We summarize the historical roots of the

experiential approach with Whitaker, and discuss the three basic principles that define it.

http://www.heartcenteredtherapies.org/go/d...%20Approach.pdf

Not sure if it's wise to tackle all this alone... my past adventures have been a bit abnormal and probably reinforced my insanity status. Doubt using the internet as a "100% non-judgemental friend" to restore confidence and try and work out who you are and all your flaws is the best way to go, in retrospect.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Alchemica

[t st tantra]

i'm glad my challenge was useful and well received!

you have a forum for discussion here,and i'm sure there are members quite happy to chat by pm.

and your always welcome at my place!

you may be a bit moody at times but your judgement seems quite sound to me.......

t s t .

[Alchemica]

A few different ways of looking at emotions/problems and what might be blocking them for anyone open to chakras and the likes, thought it was worth posting.

Emotions: A Means of Studying Human Consciousness

Abstract: Emotions affect people's perceptions of reality, with the emotions that we experience on a daily basis appearing to be in response to external stimulus such as a stressor of some kind resulting in responses which ultimately result in some emotion being expressed, be it anger, fear, love, hate, disgust, pleasure, and so on. Therefore, Meyer's (1933) contention that emotions are whales amongst fishes can be construed as cognitive dissonance.

Understanding that thoughts and emotion are energy that not only have physical external manifestations and internal effect mental/physical effects, but also a component which radiates out from an individual's electromagnetic field. This latter component is often denied or misunderstood but plays a crucial to understanding the interplay of emotions.

This is a topic that needs to be researched, but criteria need to be devised for the creation of a device, and the interpretation of its human body electromagnetic field measurements. Once such a device has been created and tested then studies may be started utilizing it in a structured and scientific manner.

Keywords: emotions, consciousness, sympathetic nervous system, nerve, neurology.

http://www.journaloftheoretics.com/Articles/2-5/Smith.htm

Another interesting page is Towards a Science of Consciousness III: http://www.scribd.com/doc/4787606/Toward-a...scon-Conference

[Maurice]

stabilzing in Oneness, with Self generating bliss, And integration with the beggar & king alike, is the work beyond "the experience" of Oneness. I use Gd to describe such (being Jewish) , this community uses "entheogenesis"

which reminds me of the first experience I ever had with Sceletium tortuosum (channa).

It took me back to myself in my primary school playground, all those feelings, seen from here (50yoa body)

and the empathy (cf sympathy) for my emotional body back then in those circumstances! Great herb!!