Huasca experiences, Santo Daime in Aus

[Chrissy Star]

Seeing as possessing or making Huasca or Ayahuasca is illegal in Australia, you might not get many people willing to incriminate themselves by answering your question.

I'm sure there are initiated members of Santo Daime in Australia. But the fact that the sacrament itself is highly illegal makes it something that can't be discussed in an open forum.

 

Don't be silly!!! Alot of people are free and without fear! Maybe you should self-check yourself before you make wild claims !!! I myself will tell you anyting you ask if I feel it is right. And I have sourced so much info from this site and found no barriers. Try Errowid, that is another great source of info. I wish the fearful would free themselves and not spread their dis-ease !!!!

[Chrissy Star]

Just wondering about some people's huasca experiences, and if there is a santo daime in Australia.

 

I am also seeking one...I have tracked down some people and am talking with them about it. I think if you started to talking to people in your local area, they will open up as mine did in my area. Through friends, like minded people on the street, in shops (pick the right ones obviously, I'm not talking about in coles). etc etc.

[Chrissy Star]

If a person were to follow their intuition and learn much from their surrounding environment, it could be possible to become a self taught shaman. This information was sourced from the beloved wiki.

Chakapas are percussion instruments used by Shamans. The sound of the chakapa is said to comfort patients in an ayahuasca ceremony and "cleans" the energy surrounding the client. Shaman have a large variety of shakapa movements that create different sounds and energy waves, these movements match the coinciding icaro and healing that is being done at the time.

Icaros are medicine songs, used as part of the toolkit of Shamans. The doctor spirits teach the shamans their icaros. Icaros are expressed in the form of song and are a major system of delivery of the shamans’ spiritual energy. They are used to bring on mareación (the visionary effects of the Ayahuasca), take mareación away, call in different plant spirits, call in the spirits of others or the deceased, take away dark spirits and dark energies, and manage the ceremony.

Common admixtures with their associated ceremonial values and spirits:

• Ayahuma^[13] bark: Dead Head Tree. Provides protection and is used in healing susto (soul loss from spiritual fright or trauma). Head spirit is a headless giant.
• Capirona^[13] bark: Provides cleansing and protection. It is noted for its smooth bark, white flowers, and hard wood. Head spirits look Caucasian.
  
• Chullachaki Caspi^[13] bark: Provides cleansing to the physical body. Used to transcend physical body ailments. Head spirits look Caucasian.
  
• Lopuna Blanca bark: Provides protection. Head spirits take the form of giants.
  
• Punga Amarilla bark: Yellow Punga. Provides protection. Used to pull or draw out negative spirits or energies. Head spirit is the yellow anaconda.
  
• Remo Caspi^[13] bark: Oar Tree. Used to move dense or dark energies. Head spirit is a native warrior.
  
• Wyra (huaira) Caspi^[13] bark: Air Tree. Used to create purging, transcend gastro/intestinal ailments, calm the mind, and bring tranquility. Head spirit looks African.
  
• Shiwawaku bark: Brings purple medicine to the ceremony. Provides healing and protection.
  
• Camu camu Gigante: Head spirit comes in the form of a large dark skinned giant. He provides medicine and protection in the form of warding off dark and demonic spirits.
  
• Tamamuri: Head spirit looks like an old Asian warrior with a long white wispy beard. He carries a staff and manages thousands of spirits to protect the ceremony and send away energies that are purged from the participants.
  
• Uchu Sanango: Head of the sanango plants. Provides power, strength, and protection. Head doctor spirit is a grandfather with a long, gray-white beard.
  
• Huacapurana: Giant tree of the Amazon with very hard bark. Its head spirits come in the form of Amazonian giants and provide a strong grounding presence in the ceremony
  

 

[3lliot]

I am also seeking one...

 

I am aware of one, & have contact details... happy to exchange with contact details for a non-Santo Daime group...

-E

[Chrissy Star]

Here are 2 lovely things to watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4RkOsLxoT4&feature=related

Old school documentary on Ecuador Ayahuasca

Pasha Dume - shaman song of the Amazon

 

Paintings by a shaman who is also an artist:

Search on images - Pablo Amaringo

[phyllode]

floias wrote:

I find the indigenous people to be often very casual when they give you ayahuasca, and they are more inclined to see that it is all in the cup. even santo daime people I have drunk with say that, that it is all in the medicine and not in what they do.

I'm sure the guys in the above video could tell you about strict ceremony.(Thanks Chrissy Star for vid)

the diet is a more mestizo thing, as the diet (in terms of the food element) is largely taking out of a lot of western element (sugar, salt, alcohol etc)

I disagree. Ever found a mono-lingual Amazonian tribe? (no, there aren't many left, and they don't seek out the tourist ayahuasca dollar like many curanderos). Or read any real studies of intact south american shamanism, such as

Portals of power:

Shamanism in South America

http://bks5.books.go...6ehVEbYLJHrQ1_w

E. Jean Matteson Langdon, Gerhard Baer

folias wrote:

Some would be aware there is a species in Australia, called the Pious Armchair Gumnut (PAG), which is unfortunately rather common. such types are surprisingly homogenous, exceedingly precious, judgemental, egotistically and humourously political and petty, tending to be cagey, and at once gossipy and normally out of touch with reality, its variables and nature because of an overt theoretical and impractical nature.

Is this a description of yourself?

Edited July 12, 2012 by phyllode

[phyllode]

I'll go as far as to say that i think people who try to avoid or underemphasize the Diet (including the Santo Diame) are avoiding a full understanding of and immersion in the Tradition that is Ayahuasca.

'Vine of the Soul'?

Not such a casual name.

[folias]

I'll go as far as to say that i think people who try to avoid or underemphasize the Diet (including the Santo Diame) are avoiding a full understanding of and immersion in the Tradition that is Ayahuasca.

*tries to force splutter*

Ayahuasca is a vine that grows in Amazonia and the rest of the world. It is not a tradition. It is what you want it to be.

Seems to me, even most people who are working with it, miss the point altogether. Many years ago I met one of the elders who brought Ayahuasca to the west and he said to me, that unfortunately, the Ayahuasca scene is full of wankers! And I tend to agree with him!

Julian.

[Chrissy Star]

Seems to me, even most people who are working with it, miss the point altogether. Many years ago I met one of the elders who brought Ayahuasca to the west and he said to me, that unfortunately, the Ayahuasca scene is full of wankers! And I tend to agree with him!

 

Maybe a little experiment could go on for the ones who honour the "traditions"...one time follow the traditional methods etc...the next time don't follow the traditional methods, then see how different the experience is. I personally am more interested in whether the experience is different due to the dmt source - will it be different if it comes from say acacia compared to the vine (even with purification etc)...is there an inherent energy in the molecule due to it's origins???

Edited July 12, 2012 by Chrissy Star

[rahli]

i tend to agree with julian. There is no denying your own traditions and beliefs in the face of the vine. She is a thing of evolution and growth, not restriction. She will have your own leasons in store. ↲

I guess there will always be this debate between neoshamans and psychonauts. Personally i'd only drink with real shamans and psychonauts as there is less risk of them unloading their ideolistic baggage onto you. And i wouldn't want to interfere with their magic space. Remember folks, its a long fall from all the way down there!

[phyllode]

*tries to force splutter*

Ayahuasca is a vine that grows in Amazonia and the rest of the world. It is not a tradition. It is what you want it to be.

Seems to me, even most people who are working with it, miss the point altogether. Many years ago I met one of the elders who brought Ayahuasca to the west and he said to me, that unfortunately, the Ayahuasca scene is full of wankers! And I tend to agree with him!

Julian.

 

I honestly feel sorry for you. Stay in your little-brother western headset if you like. Just about anyone who has done a 2 week dieta with a 'traditional' curandero understands the difference diet (& attitude make). I'm trying to be helpful. I agree the Ayahuasca scene is full of wankers. But I think you're just spilling your jism all over the place.

[folias]

Again I say the traditions are bollocks, culture is not your friend. Listen to the plants foremost, make contact with them and not the cultural baggage of dudes with juju!

>will it be different if it comes from say acacia compared to the vine (even with purification etc)...is there an inherent energy in the molecule due to it's origins???

in a word: yes.

>Just about anyone who has done a 2 week dieta with a 'traditional' curandero understands the difference diet (& attitude make).

Sure, there is making the commitment to the plant and I'm not saying that is not ineffective. I encounter so many people so much of the time holding onto ideologies for no other reason than they cannot face their own cultural insecurities and go into the space nakedly. Western people are so in their heads - any kind of thought or structure just encourages them to maintain their systems of control and mental dominion. When the most essential healing often comes from fully letting go and into their own integrated intelligence. I work with a lot of people who have been so caught up in these systems and ideas of someone else being the guider, that they don't know how to find their own way through the states, as they are, and are therefore often kept immature and disempowered as little cash paying kiddies by these "shamans"

Julian.

[planthelper]

the Ayahuasca scene is full of wankers! And I tend to agree with him!

Julian.

 

I agree the Ayahuasca scene is full of wankers.

 

i though, there was a 3rd reference to aya wankers, anyway, i nailed down 2 of them.

[Seldom]

kind of disheartening to follow this thread. my impression from comments here is that Ayahuasca 'circles are as susceptible as all people to problems that come with competing orientations claiming to have a privileged way of getting 'truth or authenticity.

In Greek times truth was achieved by adherence to principals (temperance etc) which were thought to be conducive to its realisation. the goal was the execution of a set of practices which placed people in a space in which they were apt to realise certain truths. the rigour with which behaviour was regulated by these guiding principals was thought to be related to the magnitude of truth realised. the privations of these procedures is behind the Greek idea that we 'suffer our way to wisdom .. So where Terrence says ritual is for those who don't know, the Greeks would say knowing is exclusively for those willing to submit to procedures of principled action.

In different 'circles', worshippers of Bacchus advocated dissolution of identity through drunken violent orgies, a method based on the idea that the coordinates of everyday meaning are an obstacle to perception of the chaotic primordial unity at reality's core, so allowing meaning to structure activity is akin to letting a degenerate form of reality govern your perception

i don't have an answer, i'm posting this only to note this is a debate which has gone on for thousands of years

Edited July 14, 2012 by bulls on parade

[cosmosuperball]

Seeing as possessing or making Huasca or Ayahuasca is illegal in Australia, you might not get many people willing to incriminate themselves by answering your question.

I'm sure there are initiated members of Santo Daime in Australia. But the fact that the sacrament itself is highly illegal makes it something that can't be discussed in an open forum. Other aspects such as what members of this church believe and what their religious practices are, are both topics that people here might be happy to discuss at length.

Why your particular interest in Santo Daime? I was initially attracted by the use of Ayahuasca. But I was also put off by their Christian and Catholic influences.

 

My particualr interest was their Christian beleifes combined with their use of daime, I find their interest in catholic paintings and the symbolism like halo's has alot of validity as alot of people that experience near deat go to a sun like light like their halo's and this may be an indication of self induced nde's by saints. Having self induced 2 nde's myself and experiencing the light and it powers and their depictions giving it validity as a spiritual experience to be combined with daime struck me as intriuging and relevant to my personal experience. Also i come from a christian background as small country baptist church which would talk about people involved in the occult and paganism/wicca and through my research from people like Chris Everard these people are following the same religous practices invoking spirits and such in a circle or pentagram as the Illuminati, and from plain common sense and research into the best mediums in Australia that have been brought to light by shows like sensing murder, it is obvious that you dont need to draw a pentrgram in a circle to engage in the spirit world and it is supersticious psychosis really, as top mediums like Deb Webber that have been tested do not use this practice. I feel their intentions are pure and they have a heritage of the use of Daime as opposed to first or 2nd generation hippy kids who dont really respect the plant and chemically extract and such. I have an aversions to wicca and paganism, I lived with a wiccan with both pentagrams tattooed on him and he told me that he heard a voice the last time he took dmt and it told him not to ever take it again and this made me question his intentions and validity of his expereince. Long before I came into the psychedelic community I was purchasing dream time from a well know herb shop for months every fortnight or as much as my measly centrelink could afford. When I came into doof parties because I wasnt recognised as a "tripper" even though my first psychedelic experience was dreamtime 2 cones in succession( which im sure alot of you would agree is a strong induction into psychedelics). So alot of the people unbeknowst to them were playing psycholigical games with someone that was already inducted into the world at home. I have a distate for most of the wishy washy religous view that get around at parties where the drug is available since the shop was closed down, this church is solid with good morales and a heritage of daime use and knowledge aswell they recognise the validity of nde's in the representation of halo's on their saints aswell as an intermeshing of plant and human spirit which was my experience on dream time. I want solid good people to take this with and you cant argue with christian morales for the most part, the activity of making up your own religion or following ancient egyptian symbols like the illuminati or stealing bhuddist beleifes with out actually following bhuddism is arrogant and offensive to true followers of the religion. In conclusion they provide solid religous beleifes combined with psychedlic use, its not made from bits of this and bits of that which is how freemasonry rosicrucianism and baphomet worship started.

[CβL]

or stealing bhuddist beleifes with out actually following bhuddism is arrogant and offensive to true followers of the religion.

Lol! In most cases, this is not true. Only superficial "worshippers" generally think that. Secondly, it seems you're implying that it's wrong to take parts from a religion?

There's just so. much. wrong. with that view that I don't even know where to begin. I can only offer some blanket advice "put yourself into other people's positions, and imagine what it feels like for someone else to judge you the way you judge them."

A little bit of knowledge is more dangerous than none.

[rahli]

I feel a little confused. You may be able to help me out here.

I feel their intentions are pure and they have a heritage of the use of Daime as opposed to first or 2nd generation hippy kids who dont really respect the plant and chemically extract and such.

Hippies extracting plants = disrespect to plants??

Long before I came into the psychedelic community I was purchasing dream time from a well know herb shop for months every fortnight or as much as my measly centrelink could afford.

You buying DMT with your dole $ from a shop = ??

I have a distate for most of the wishy washy religous view that get around at parties where the drug is available since the shop was closed down...

You hanging around a bunch of tool smokers so you can get DMT because you are no longer able to buy it from a shop = ??

I want solid good people to take this with and you cant argue with christian morales for the most part.

 

Mate take the plunge, disrespect the plants and never have to listen to another tool smoker or contribute another $ to the illicit drug market. And if you still feel bad just go and confess your sins and all will be okay again.

[folias]

kind of disheartening to follow this thread. my impression from comments here is that Ayahuasca 'circles are as susceptible as all people to problems that come with competing orientations claiming to have a privileged way of getting 'truth or authenticity.

 

Absolutely.

Ayahuasca drinking peoples all over the world always seem to be at odds with one another, especially in Amazonia where sorcery is widespread. But in the west, it is often a very political and quite petty arena. I myself feel relatively benign and non-political compared to the various chest beaters, gossipy and general negative propaganda and ideologies that the Santo Daime people call "The Bad News Post Office" It seems to me that many people are seeking a release from the ego from these medicines, so that many arch egotists are attracted to them. But, I'm not sure if Ayahuasca really does the trick, as it can tend to amplify the ego.

Probably 8 grams of dried mushrooms can do a better job, but because there is no obvious cultural tradition to anchor the work with mushrooms, so it is not given as much credibility. There are so very few people doing the work with large doses of mushrooms and a prevalence of "wankers" who want to be seen to be doing the cool thing.

Recently, however, I have met people who hold "free form" sessions with mushrooms - which are very effective. Thing is, it is so much easier to give importance to a structure or series of formulas and containers and feel better about that, as it often seems so more important and worthy to the ego, than transparency and direct living truth - which most seem scared of! Many are looking for this don juan character who has a whole roadmap of shamanic tradition all laid out, something very intellectual you can get your teeth into!

Thing is about these indigenous ways, is that in places like the Congo, (worlds 2nd largest rainforrest) there are native traditions intact and they have *insane* plants there, some of which I am taking. But for most part, in the west, it is a big unknown, there is no intellectual brew haha about it. It is raw and real, and indeterminable by the western mind.

And it is interesting you are talking about these greek traditions… I think people are scared what would happen if they did let go, that it would become some kind of violent orgy or the like. This is also a very freudian idea, that the ID or "lower" emotions would take us over. This is the idea that letting go into the emotional body itself is dangerous and destructive which maintains the repression, but for repressed white people, this is what they need to do in order to be liberated! (see the film "Mysteries of the Organism" for people going into Reichian therapy which engages this sort of let go and cathartic release)

Satanists indulge in maintaining control through ritual, yet enacting an unleashment of repression in a way that does not do the trick, only to maintain and validate the repression and the ego's grip. But actually, to go into intelligent consciousness, part of that is actually working through and releasing repression of all sorts and coming clean with yourself.

From my perspective, the most healing comes from accepting and letting go into the insanity, outside of the mind - whereas most want to maintain the mind in some form. Therefore, they in particular, often have a problem when their mental structures, traditions or whatever you want to call them, are not given pole position. This is why traditions are baloney, because that pole position is often the manifest problem, which prevents apriori intelligence and the working through of what is really on the table in a direct and human way.

Julian.

[whitewind]

Mate take the plunge, disrespect the plants and never have to listen to another tool smoker or contribute another $ to the illicit drug market. And if you still feel bad just go and confess your sins and all will be okay again.

 

DO NOT DISRESPECT THE PLANTS.

Grow your own plants Cosmosuperball. There is plenty of legit seed available, wait a while and entry to hyperspace will be yours, with no disrespect to plants or people.

I want solid good people to take this with and you cant argue with christian morales

 

If you travel on your own, there will be no issues with having to deal with people whose morals are "questionable".

There is nothing wrong with the morals of many of the people here, so be careful how you judge please.

[whitewind]

Fantastic post, folias. However:

The way I see western ritual sessions like this is more like the childrens classrooms of the west; you get basic instruction on the current knowledge of say, science. The quality of the teacher is important, and the setting of the school; some groups may go further than others, and of course the number of sessions you have will make a huge difference. But just like studying physics at GCSE level doesn't mean you can work at CERN so having a couple of rituals in an ayahuasca circle doesn't make you a shaman. However, it might lead to greater understanding of shamanism and the mind, or at least lead to a tolerance and respect to those who do.

Most people aren't great explorers like you folias, there was only one Christopher Columbus and Vasco de Gama (I studied history at GCSE level too) - but many people followed in their footsteps; doesn't mean that travelling by ship is a bad thing, at least they realise traversing the oceans is possible and are willing to give it a try!

The question here is, where would the knowledge and tolerance of Ayahuasca and other psychedelics be without ayahuasca circles and rituals?

[Chrissy Star]

The way I see western ritual sessions like this is more like the childrens classrooms of the west; you get basic instruction on the current knowledge of say, science. The quality of the teacher is important, and the setting of the school; some groups may go further than others, and of course the number of sessions you have will make a huge difference. But just like studying physics at GCSE level doesn't mean you can work at CERN so having a couple of rituals in an ayahuasca circle doesn't make you a shaman. However, it might lead to greater understanding of shamanism and the mind, or at least lead to a tolerance and respect to those who do. Most people aren't great explorers...there was only one Christopher Columbus and Vasco de Gama (I studied history at GCSE level too) - but many people followed in their footsteps; doesn't mean that travelling by ship is a bad thing, at least they realise traversing the oceans is possible and are willing to give it a try!

The question here is, where would the knowledge and tolerance of Ayahuasca and other psychedelics be without ayahuasca circles and rituals?

 

Thank you so much Whitewind!!! You have put to words what was in my heart all along and what I many times tried to include in this post but ended up deleting for one reason or another (I've still got far to go in my communication skills). It was really upsetting me watching all the negativity unfold with regards to ceremony/no ceremony...glad you have leveled this.

I appreciate you.

[phyllode]

I'm disheartened you're disheartened bulls on parade. I come from a debating background, and don't intend to personally offend or belittle anyone. It's a public forum with a whole range of valid views.

Look folias, and people. I don't make money from ayahuasca. I don't write books, or derive any ego-benefit or similar from discussing it.

Personally the guidance of very experienced ceremony holders (indigenous and non-indigenous) has been of the greatest help and healing for me.

That's my experience in a nutshell. I've seen circles without such guidance become chaotic, or lead to quite negative consequences for a few.

But, I do agree with folias that true indigenous knowledge is increasingly difficult to access these days.

Lastly, the Maestros who first showed Terence McKenna Ayahuasca (and synaesthesia) were of the highly ceremonial, indigenous tradition, whatever he chose to do with it afterwards. But it's partly from McKenna's talks/writings that I first became interested in pre-Spanish traditions. We should remember that the Santo Diame was founded by an African descendant rubber worker who was TAUGHT BY HIGHLY CEREMONIAL INDIGENOUS TRIBESPEOPLE.

It all goes back to these 'traditions'.

[Ayahuasca137]

hello, new member here with ponderings & interests in this area. could someone brave please PM me?

post edited by mod.

 

Same here

Edited September 5, 2012 by Ayahuasca137