Yet another new W.A. street drug

[SunChaser]

Mindexpansion, if you want to check out the government funded study done by the mhca called Where there's smokeyou can see how they try as hard as they can to prove cannabis causes mental illness with there opinions and antidotal evidence, but they clearly admit that there is no casual link, which Scientifically kind of makes you naïve for taking it as fact. Considering cannabis is the second most used drug in the world and has been used for thousands of years there would be a clear casual link.

Also the study states that more people with a mental illness and a history of alcohol abuse seek help than people with a history of cannabis use, also 90% of cannabis users who seek help are poly drug users the other drug they use is usually alcohol.

I know people who try to blame cannabis for all their problems while they down half a slab a day, fuck wits!

Why don’t you go thank Johnny for trying to show us naïve people how evil the most useful plant on this earth actually is?

Fair enough braz, thats your personal opinion, Im just pointing out that the true science doesnt agree with ya.

[SunChaser]

also, ever since they have taken record of it 1% of the population anywhere in the world has schizohrenia, since the sixties cannabis use has risen but yet the rate of schizophrenia has always remand at 1%.

[Siggor]

Jabez, you can keep yourself in naievity for as long as you want, stuyding mental illness is ridiculously difficult particularly trying to find a causal link between mental illness and ANYTHING. Fact of the matter is that I'm sure most people here know someone who has been beaten around by the greens. For those who don't want to believe it, there will never be a study good enough. For those who do, there may well never be a study good enough either.

To my mind, it is undeniable that the use of psychoactives can lead to mental health issues, and certainly cannabis can do this too. That is just my opinion.

right on ME, in my experience i have walked on a fine line of psychosis when hitting the green in my teenage years, living in between worlds.

i guess people choose what they only want to see especially when its close to them.

[MindExpansion]

Fair enough braz, thats your personal opinion, Im just pointing out that the true science doesnt agree with ya.

And I'm just pointing out that it doesn't really agree with you either, everything you have said so far is telling me that you are looking at the issue far to simplistically and not considering the issues a true scientist needs to consider when they approach an issue that needs some study. Also:

i guess people choose what they only want to see especially when its close to them.

Bang on spudamore.

Peace

[AndyAmine.]

Actually it tends to be the opposite, there is a very high occurrence of self medication using cannabis (and other drugs such as whizz and coke) among those with schizophrenia and similar types of psychosis.

I believe this has a lot to do with the quick boost of dopamine it gives which these people are unfortunately lacking.

Also, around 80% of the people I know who started smoking pot around the same age as me (12 +/- a couple of yrs) have either quit because of or are dealing with psychological issues due to their smoking, however I must admit all these people have been or still are heavy daily users.

I think heavy use during the teenage years is a major factor for problems in the following years

Unfortunately I believe this has a LOT to do with strain/clone selection and excessive amounts of unflushed fertiliser/additives/pesticides, if people were allowed to choose the right strains for them and allowed to grow it with care and diligence then I doubt it would be as big of an issue.

Lastly, IMHO, to say that pot doesn't cause psychological problems is being naive, just because it hasn't happened to you and there are so many people not wishing to admit it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[Chiral]

I still think that cannabis has a role to play in helping people with eating disorders..there is something in it that gives you those food cravings and relaxes you..I'm sure the chemical that does this could be isolated and could be dosed at the right level..the paranoia may come with the mix of all the alks together when the user smokes said herb. there is a lot of great properties in Cannabis personally I can't go near it but it does have its place in the medical world..OF THAT I"M SURE.

H.

[SunChaser]

Lastly, IMHO, to say that pot doesn't cause psychological problems is being naive, just because it hasn't happened to you and there are so many people not wishing to admit it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

It has happend to me. I've been smoking heavily since I was 13 and I get severe depression. Thing is looking back reading my primary school reports, I was clearly a depressed kid.

Why would a already happy kid feel like they wanted to get stoned all day everyday, I think depressed people are drawn to it as teenagers. Also as I said in my other post the life style of abusing ALL drugs can lead to mental illness.

But the idea that using cannabis is a one way ticket to the psyche ward for any one that is not perfect is bull shit, in my opinion!

Also when I quit for long periods I go from being depressed to wanting to put a bullet in my head, fuck that, I'll stick with my erb.

Edited January 13, 2009 by jabez

[Bush Turkey]

It has happend to me. I've been smoking heavily since I was 13 and I get severe depression. Thing is looking back reading my primary school reports, I was clearly a depressed kid.

Why would a already happy kid feel like they wanted to get stoned all day everyday, I think depressed people are drawn to it as teenagers. Also as I said in my other post the life style of abusing ALL drugs can lead to mental illness.

But the idea that using cannabis is a one way ticket to the psyche ward for any one that is not perfect is bull shit, in my opinion!

Also when I quit for long periods I go from being depressed to wanting to put a bullet in my head, fuck that, I'll stick with my erb.

im in the same boat as you jabez... i suffer from deppersion and O.C.D thats how i found ethnos, reading about the treatment of OCD with psilocybin! The 2 years i quit were the worst 2 years of my life!

[paradox]

I still think that cannabis has a role to play in helping people with eating disorders..there is something in it that gives you those food cravings and relaxes you..I'm sure the chemical that does this could be isolated and could be dosed at the right level..the paranoia may come with the mix of all the alks together when the user smokes said herb. there is a lot of great properties in Cannabis personally I can't go near it but it does have its place in the medical world..OF THAT I"M SURE.

H.

i don't think many people here would disagree that cannabis has many & varied medicinal uses. but people with eating disorders don't just need to stimulate their appetite the way, say a cancer patient undergoing chaemotherapy (who is suffering extreme nausea) does. Conditions such as anorexia nervosa are severe psychological disorders & have little/nothing to do with the appetite. for instance, a person suffering from bulimia with the munchies would simply eat more food & subsequently feel worse & believe they were even fatter & throw up even more.

[Chiral]

My sister suffered from anorexia for 15 years..it was appalling and I couldn't stand to see her like that..she got married to a typical layabout pot smoking tiler...and she started sharing his habit of smoking some weed in the evening with him...

Story is she has never been happier and has regained her normal weight. Now she doesn't smoke anymore cause she says it makes her paranoid but she hasn't gone back to being anorexic either. Maybe she is just one case whereby it worked for her but may not for many others. It's an interesting area of the medicinal use of ganja.

Yeah wouldn't work for bulimia...be a real disaster I'd say.

H.

[MindExpansion]

But the idea that using cannabis is a one way ticket to the psyche ward for any one that is not perfect is bull shit, in my opinion!

No one said that. In fact I specifically said that some people were probably more susceptible to the psychological effects in question than others.

Also when I quit for long periods I go from being depressed to wanting to put a bullet in my head, fuck that, I'll stick with my erb.

Couldn't just be bad withdrawals? Or the fact that the hazy mindset smoking may cause can mask the true extent of the depression (in your case) that you would otherwise be suffering from? I mean, how long is a 'long period'?

Hunab while I'm not tryin to invalidate what your saying because I don't doubt that this was your experience:

My sister suffered from anorexia for 15 years..it was appalling and I couldn't stand to see her like that..she got married to a typical layabout pot smoking tiler...and she started sharing his habit of smoking some weed in the evening with him...

I have to say that the life change getting married would bring about also gives rise to many other new experiences that might result in the regression of the disorder. So while the smoking may have been part of it, there may have been more to it. I think paradox put it well.

Peace

[SunChaser]

No one said that. In fact I specifically said that some people were probably more susceptible to the psychological effects in question than others.

Couldn't just be bad withdrawals? Or the fact that the hazy mindset smoking may cause can mask the true extent of the depression (in your case) that you would otherwise be suffering from? I mean, how long is a 'long period'?

Once i hit the 6 month mark i fall a part like clock work so dont think its withdrawals and I've quit for that amount of time 3 times.

For the first couple of days when I quit, it's a real battle then I start feeling better for the first couple of months and then start going down hill.

What I think is people who smoke and have a mental illness are being told it's the weed, so they quit which creates a new life style (like going on holidays) which can make life seem fresh brighter, which would make most people think that it was quiting that made them come good when it really might have just been the change in life style, who knows.

All I know is cannabis for me is far more effective than any legal antidepressant.

Edited January 13, 2009 by jabez

[Neoshaman]

I was just reading over the little debate that has ensued here regarding Mary. I haven't had a chancee to read the particular study in question of course there is a substanial level of dependence existing in some cannabis users , the fact that cannabis is probably the most widely used drug apart from alcohol and tobacco and its effects are qyuite moderate increases the risk of people become regular users and to some degree become dependant on it . Having been involved in this scence for around 13 years now. I have seen both side of the coin , people who have had extremely adverse reactions and those that have basically nill negative side effects.

The risk of using anything that doesn't cure a disorder but treats the side effects trains the body to bbecome dependant on that substance for that action to even take disorders out of the equation say i smoked pot to calm myself down whenever II got really angry , how then will my body and mind be able to deal with the same situation when cannabis is no longer present , sleeping disorders , eating disorders all it does is actively reduce the side effects there is a lot more then eliminating the issue especially without becoming a habitual/ dependant user.

I find the vast majority of cannabis reserach unennticing be the reports positive ornegativeI'm sure for any pro or con we can come up with regarding the plant one can loacte a minimum of 10 ''scientific'" articles 5 of whicchh support your arguement and five that don't my main issues with all resaerch reagrding cannabis is.

1. Impossibility of true control groups

2. Poly-drug use

3. Mixing with Tobacco

4. Alcohol use throughout the population.

5. Scientific Bias

6. Funding Bias

7.Varied methods of smoking

8. Various material used in smoking products such as water pipes and pipes

9.Adultration of products

Of course I'm not going to just disregard any scientific paper on the subject but what i am saying is it is very hard to rely on them for arguement eitther way , You need to take personal experience into account and be open about it . I can ssee the produuctive ways in which cannabis can be used and i have seen people use it constuctively , however I have also seen people experience extremely negative side effects .

now if i told you I knew a drug addict that flew into violent rages , has alienated many if not all of his friends , his gf will no longer sleep with him as he has beat her so many times in his fits of rage from not getting his fix , house is constantly damaged from him smmashing walls what drug do you think he is using ./addicted to ..............very sad to say itts cannabis

[Chiral]

now if i told you I knew a drug addict that flew into violent rages , has alienated many if not all of his friends , his gf will no longer sleep with him as he has beat her so many times in his fits of rage from not getting his fix , house is constantly damaged from him smashing walls what drug do you think he is using ./addicted to ..............very sad to say its cannabis

Sounds very much like my old best mate up on the coast ....he fits this description to a tee...I never understood the full on addiction to mull and its apparent psychotic dependency.

H.

[SunChaser]

now if i told you I knew a drug addict that flew into violent rages , has alienated many if not all of his friends , his gf will no longer sleep with him as he has beat her so many times in his fits of rage from not getting his fix , house is constantly damaged from him smmashing walls what drug do you think he is using ./addicted to ..............very sad to say itts cannabis

You had a few interesting things to say there, but I don't see what point your trying to make by saying you know a toker that beats up there woman, I mean there's woman bashers all over the place. They are low life little men and I don't think you can blame cannabis, alcohol or anything else for that.

Anyway I'm kind of over the whole debate, I know weed helps me and I'll smoke till the day I die, that's my right. Fuck the government, police or anyone else who tries to take my freedom of expression.

If it fucks with your head, then it's basicially your own fualt if you keep using it. Alcohol messes with my head but I don't go around saying that anyone who's not 100% shouldn't touch it.

[Neoshaman]

You had a few interesting things to say there, but I don't see what point your trying to make by saying you know a toker that beats up there woman, I mean there's woman bashers all over the place. They are low life little men and I don't think you can blame cannabis, alcohol or anything else for that.

Anyway I'm kind of over the whole debate, I know weed helps me and I'll smoke till the day I die, that's my right. Fuck the government, police or anyone else who tries to take my freedom of expression.

If it fucks with your head, then it's basicially your own fualt if you keep using it. Alcohol messes with my head but I don't go around saying that anyone who's not 100% shouldn't touch it.

My point was he beats his women only when he can't get pot if he's got some he's perfectly fine . yes its good for you , no it doesn't have negative effects on me but its certainly not beneficial to everyone . Cannabis is a each to their own type the amounts it takes to affect you negatively or become habitual , the original debate was regarding khat which due to a graph changed to a discussion regarding pros and cons of cannabis since it something i have been experienced with for over 13 years , researched for over 10 and even had the pleasure of discussing my theories with cliff schaffer I thought I would contribute some personal insight to the topic. I also get sick of seeing people argue about various disputed facts around cannabis , all the research just seems inconclusive to me very few if any study results are ever replicated .

[AndyAmine.]

Just to clarify, I wasn't saying that anyone who isn't 100% shouldn't smoke, or that pot effects everyone in a negative way, just that the issue of pot causing psychological problems and cognitive deficits is very real for a lot of people and that a major contributing factor is over use in developmental years and a lack of selection in regards to strain and growing technique.

If it works for you then I think thats wonderful, more power to you.

[Alchemica]

I don't want to deviate from the main topic too much but as someone who has been in a "psychotic" state, I think it is vital to remember that any foreign (or endogenous) chemical in the brain has the potential to cause problems.

There is an extensive history of mental health problems in my family and all through my high school years I knew there was something not quite right. A few of us did indulge in pre-physics cannabis use (very weak stuff) and found that it was always beneficial (the way to get the end of year subject prize, actually) but when we were first exposed to high potency indica type strains via bong delivery systems, it was big trouble. I doubt there were any lasting neurological problems from the infrequent use but who knows.

My biggest issue arose after years on SSRIs and finally moving to paroxetine. After about 6 weeks on 80mg of paroxetine, the most extreme mania I could imagine - coupled with a fortnight of insomnia - threw me right into the most interesting and strange psychotic situation (thankfully I have never been one for violence, otherwise things could have got nasty)... The psychosis slowly tapered down after a couple of months (yet any attempt to utilise antipsychotics made it worse) but even now, I'm struggling to get my mind together. Probably the most harmful thing that happened during that period was constant changes in set and setting (home-hospital-shrinks-doctors-no social life-alienation etc.) after a mum called in Government Health Workers (only making the situation worse). I think the most important thing to remember is that any drug, legal or not, has the potential to do things to the mind and we need to sort out what our brains can handle, or abstain from living if we don't want to risk being thrown into those "strange, unusual and different" worlds the mind can sometimes be taken to...

Chose your poison (at a sensible dosage) and hope it's a remedy, basically.

Edited January 14, 2009 by The Alchemist

[~shameless~]

The risk of using anything that doesn't cure a disorder but treats the side effects trains the body to bbecome dependant on

Sounds like Ritalin or Panadine forte or Psuedofed, hahaha name your med - pot dealers are no worse than careless doctors, the only thing is doctors dont get put in jail for carelessly writting scripts man!!