20 min "Tropo-Yopo", 5-AcO-Yopo and Rue Resin

[Alchemica]

"Tropo-Yopo"

10gr of seeds (reported to be predominately 5-OH-DMT by someone who knows way more about plants than me, left whole) were gently roasted in a fry pan until ~70% popped open (like pop-corn) and the heat source removed. The seeds were then finely powdered in coffee-grinder to form a fine dust-like powder. 2.5gr of lime-paste was added to the seeds and the mixture ground in a mortar and pestle until homogenous, causing a slight amine (fishy) odour to be liberated. After 5min, the seed-paste was returned to the fry-pan and covered in 250ml of mineral soda water (carbonated water) and the suspension reduced to a goey-paste. The paste was then dried at 11O deg. C until dry and finely powdered to a snuff grade powder.

Active by bioassay.

5-AcO-Yopo

Edit: improvements to the procedure may involve treating a cold, basified (NaOH) bufotenine (as the Na salt) extract solution w. Ac2O.

A batch of the same "Tropo-Yopo" was prepared and covered in glacial acetic acid (AcOH). The excess AcOH was removed at 120 deg. C and 20ml of acet*ic an*hydride (Ac2O) was added. The paste was heated at 60 deg. C for 2hrs and the excess Ac2O removed at 1atm. The seed mass was extracted with 150ml of boiling methanol (twice), filtered and the methanolic solution evaporated to leave a resin.

Initial bioassay (smoking) has been positive.

Rue-Resin

Peganum harmala seeds (25g, whole) were heated to reflux in methanol (150ml) containing glacial acetic acid (25ml) for 2 hours. The seeds were removed by filtration and the red methanolic extract evaporated to a dry resin.

Edited January 22, 2009 by The Alchemist

[Torsten]

Can we please but a disclaimer on any so called yopo seeds assuming that they are in fact NOT peregrina at all. In the last 10 years or so not a single commercial supplieer has actually had properly identified peregrina seeds. All of the seeds are colubrina seeds that are harvested in southern brazil and certified by the brazilian ag department as peregrina even though they are not [it is impossible to tell them from the seed alone].

Anyway, peregrina would contain mostly dmt and 5meo-dmt, neither of which would undergo much of a reaction with acetic acid.

[Chiral]

"Tropo-Yopo"

10gr of Anadenanthera peregrina seeds (whole) were gently roasted in a fry pan until ~70% popped open (like pop-corn) and the heat source removed. The seeds were then finely powdered in coffee-grinder to form a fine dust-like powder. 2.5gr of lime-paste was added to the seeds and the mixture ground in a mortar and pestle until homogenous, causing a slight amine (fishy) odour to be liberated. After 5min, the seed-paste was returned to the fry-pan and covered in 250ml of mineral soda water (carbonated water) and the suspension reduced to a goey-paste. The paste was then dried at 11O deg. C until dry and finely powdered to a snuff grade powder.

Active by bioassay.

5-AcO-Yopo

A batch of the same "Tropo-Yopo" was prepared and covered in glacial acetic acid (AcOH). The excess AcOH was removed at 120 deg. C and 20ml of Ac2O was added. The paste was heated at 60 deg. C for 2hrs and the excess Ac2O removed at 1atm. The seed mass was extracted with 150ml of boiling methanol (twice), filtered and the methanolic solution evaporated to leave a resin.

Initial bioassay (smoking) has been positive.

Rue-Resin

Peganum harmala seeds (25g, whole) were heated to reflux in methanol (150ml) containing glacial acetic acid (25ml) for 2 hours. The seeds were removed by filtration and the red methanolic extract evaporated to a dry resin.

Interesting..but why the 250ml of carbonated water..? the simple addition of lime paste and a calcium source..snail shells or egg shells left the mixture in a paste like state ready for drying.

Bioassay..extremely potent when insuffilated and when smoked. CEV's extremely fluid and liquid like as opposed to grid like and symmetrical of DMT.

slight nausea for first 20 mins followed by an uneasiness solid ground becomes ocean like and moves around like ocean swell, and loss of balance. Laying down brought on CEV's and an apparent out of body trancendance. The initial CEV's where a red flowing blood like orb bouncing around continuously very intense and unique. Noted very very similar DMT layering of objects with symmetrical grid on open eyes. Out of body experience was of feeling like being amongst the clouds and when the clouds parted was confronted by humans and interacted with them...very very clear and concise imagery of these people even though I don't know who they are. After interacting with them the cloud banks form again and and some mild frustration creeps into the thoughts until the clouds clear. At some point sleep was had and have no knowledge of end of excursion...time was noted upon waking and total time 50mins till back to baseline.

Not for everyone and certainly should be respected...mind space needs to be correct and health should be good.

Smoking and insufilation at same time brings on a very heavy toxic like body feeling.

H.

[Alchemica]

Thanks for the correction Torsten. We chemists huffed too much ether and all that back in the day...

Hunab, The carbonated water was used to assist in converting the unreacted calcium hydroxide ("crap, my nasal cavities are dissolving") in the mix into the calcium carbonate (inert chalk). Probably not needed but anything to lessen the burn is good in the opinion of the South American guy.

Will get some TLC results off the guy one day.

Edited January 4, 2009 by The Alchemist

[FancyPants]

Anyway, peregrina would contain mostly dmt and 5meo-dmt, neither of which would undergo much of a reaction with acetic acid.

I keep reading different things about A peregrina that while it does contain both n,n dmt and 5-meo-dmt, a lot of sources on the internet have said that those chemicals are simply not in enough quantities compared to the 5-ho-dmt so that it's really the bufotenine giving the effects in true Yopo from A peregrina.

Has anyone here actually bioassayed both or does anyone know a definitive answer? Here in SAB I remember reading that a couple of members have tried Yopo (as far as they believe to be Yopo) in South America but I can't for the life of me find the threads.

I even read somewhere that it's the bufotenine that's the actual drawcard for Yopo (in effects rather than chemical content) and that since A colubrina seeds contain more 5-ho-dmt per weight than any other plant (not sure about the B alvarius and B marinus toads), Colubrina should be the more wanted seeds. I wish I could remember where I read that too. Of course if one wants the Meo and n,n,dmt they would rather the Peregrina but there's far more quantitive sources for those I guess.

[t st tantra]

part of the problem is there are at least 4 forms of anadenanthera.

perigrina v perigrina

perigrna v flacata

colubrina v colubrina

and

colubrina v cebil

my opinions are only opinions though based on experience [and assumptions].

1 no exp

2 mainly 5meo

3 the strongest, 5oh mainly

4 mixed alkaloids prob mainly 5oh

t s t .

[Chiral]

The seeds bioassayed where from SAB..so they are Colubrina.

Notes taken from SAB store..

Anadenanthera colubrina: Due to the confusing taxonomy of this genus and related species some of the research is bound to be inaccurate, but it is generally agreed, that the main constituent of Anadenanthera colubrina is bufotenine (5-OH- DMT) at approximately 2-5% of dry weight. Some tests claim to have found other tryptamines, including DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, their respective oxides and serotonin, but these relate most;y to Anadenanthera macrocarpa (syn Anadenanthera colubrina var. cebil). This plant is one of the highest yielding tryptamine sources there is. Alkaloid content of older seed tested very low and it appears that the tryptamines are decomposed over time. Bufotenine causes strong hallucinations and some toxic effects. The hallucinations are mostly non-geometric and flowing in form, intense in nature and draining on the body. Consumption of bufotenine by any route may also be dangerous for people with bloodpressure problems or weak hearts. Another source of bufotenine includes the toxin in toads of the Bufo genus and deaths have occurred from it's consumption (however most of these are attributed to other compounds in the venom).

This gives me the impression that Bufotenine is indeed the major player here..the toxic feeling and uneasiness is more than likely from the Bufotenine..its definately has some DMT qualities but instead of symetrical grid like patterns it is very very fliud and ..wobbly.

So until the true Peregrina is identified and Bioassayed..then Colubrina is the only one to take notes from. Judging by what Torsten said recently..will be a long long time before either are seen again in these parts.

Other things to note..that it is not for the faint hearted..it was found to be quite overwhelming ..more so than DMT. The pain on insuffilation is indeed an excersise in pain control..imagine being tattoo'ed up the nose and having salt rubbed in there at same time..once the initial pain comes your eyes will water like all crazy..and once the pain subsides somewhat..the dripping onto the back of the tongue takes you back for more pain and some nausea. I assume its orally active on its own at large doses..not sure but gives the impression it is. I'm sure a MAOI would potentiate it quite well...not sure if one would want to go there though..perhaps one day just for the ride and some serious healing but you really would have to be in the correct head space and be of good health.

H.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Hunab Ku

[Torsten]

I have tried real yopo [peregrina] and colubrina and there are simply no similarities. Colubrina has none of the depth and sparkle that real yopo has.

15 years ago people weren't that confused about this issue as there were distinct sources of both seeds. But the wholesale price of real peregrina seeds is about 10 times that of colubrine seeds, so there is a great motivation for scammers [or simply people who don't know better] to sell colubrina as peregrina, thus pushing the real peregrina out of the picture due to the high wholesale price.

The main source of the problem is seed harvested in southern brazil, where colubrina is used as a street tree and has spread into the wild. Seed harvested here is often classified by the harvesters and even the ag department as peregrina even though there is no peregrina in that area. This seed is now widely sold as peregrina in ethno shops, which means there is a whole generation of ethno enthusiasts growing up with the notion they have tried peregrina even though they have only consumed colubrina.

tantra, I used to sell both var cebil and var colubrina and there did not appear to be any obvious pharmacological difference in the seed.

[shruman]

I would'nt totaly write Yopo off from commercial sources T but U probly have to be bloody lucky.

"FOUND REAL YOPO HIGH IN DMT! FIRST TIME EVER!

SWIM has stated time and time again that he’s used Yopo/Vilca many, many times and never found any that was high in DMT or 5-MeO-DMT and that the effects were nearly always from bufotenine.

Well, SWIM just found Yopo that is HIGH IN DMT and has almost no bufotenine at all. SWIM was very surprised by this. This is the FIRST TIME he came across such seeds. The alkaloid content was 1.2% DMT (and some DMT N-Oxide) and SWIM could not detect any bufotenine in it at all.

These seeds were called “Anadenanthera sp. - seeds (5) var. A. peregrina”.

SWIM was doing a typical A/B extraction on them using DCM as the non-polar solvent and noticed the results looked very different than it usually does. It was all sticky brownish amber instead of brittle crystalline amber. It also smelled and tasted very different. There was a strong hint of DMT in the smell and the taste. It didn’t have that typical bufotenine smell or taste at all.

SWIM vaporized 10 mg of it. It produced only mild DMT effects and the vapor tasted exactly like DMT mixed with a little bitter peanut like taste. The effects were unmistakably from only DMT. Nothing else was felt from it.

After that SWIM tested the vaporization temperature of the extract at different levels of heat. Nearly all of it vaporized at about 70 C. That portion smelled exactly like DMT. Above that a peanut like smell vaporized which was not bufotenine. At 310-330 C, where bufotenine would vaporize, nothing vaporized at all. So it was completely void of bufotenine!

SWIM is amazed to finally find Yopo with substantial amounts of DMT in it. This must be true Anadenanthera peregrina. SWIM has often heard that most vendors sell Anadenanthera colubrina as Anadenanthera peregrina. SWIM now believes that all of his past experiences with A. peregrina were all actually A. colubrina being falsely sold as A. peregrina.

SWIM is both amazed and a little disappointed. SWIM already has lots of DMT from mimosa, chacruna, and chaliponga, and was hoping to get more bufotenine. He likes bufotenine more than DMT."

http://www.dmt-nexus.com/forum/default.asp...osts&t=1909

One of the good things of the Nexus they like posting results.

The author of that thread also has a few threads on isolating just the bufo along with a slew of other alks from colubrina seed & reckons the pure bufo is much less nauseating & more enjoyable.

Why is'nt more being done with nasty old cane toads?, c'mon northener's do us all a favour.

Thanks for that tantra, I've seen flacata mentioned before but I think subconciosly wrote it off as an old synonym. Shall investigate further now

Edited January 5, 2009 by shruman

[Chiral]

I thought it was the Bufo that made you nausea's...Colubrina then definately has a mixture of the 2 alks..can distinctly tell when open eyed the DMT content is less but is definitely there. That symetrical overlaying of objects to give them that carnival atmosphere look is definitely there. There is a strong peanut smell when preparing the Colubrina seed which carries through to the smoke and finished powder.

Wish one could sample both side by side to get a clearer understanding of the two.

H.

[shruman]

"The author of that thread also has a few threads on isolating just the bufo along with a slew of other alks from colubrina seed & reckons the pure bufo is much less nauseating & more enjoyable."

C'mon Hunab, its all right there, he claims several alkaloids are in colubrina, with DMT being a very minor or non existent part. He thinks what causes the nausea is the other alks in a crude extract/snuff.

Theres more tidbits of juicyness I'm sure you'd be interested in if u just took the time to use their search engine (although its probly the only one any worse than here ;).

[Chiral]

mmmm I'm gettin a bit suss about hanging around those forums anymore...thanks for posting that though..I'm now wondering what pure Bufo is like then..and also wondering about the nausea.

Anyways I'll have to keep wondering I guess...although this lil tid bit is interesting..Vilca/cebil seeds (no matter whether they are large or small) have an interesting identifying mark: it has a "U" shaped etching on the seedcoat on just one side, whereas peregrina seedcoats are uniformly smooth and have no such etching of any kind on either side of the seed.

I did look at this link with the yopo debate in full swing... http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=11544

fuck its too hot to think today...

H.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Hunab Ku

[mauve]

Vilca/cebil seeds (no matter whether they are large or small) have an interesting identifying mark: it has a "U" shaped etching on the seedcoat on just one side, whereas peregrina seedcoats are uniformly smooth and have no such etching of any kind on either side of the seed.

H.

I never saw any proof about this.

As for the nausea and bad effects, it seems to depend from the batch of seeds you are (hypotheticallly of course) using: i experimented (where legal) different batches of Colubrina and some seeds caused marked pain and headaches, some seeds caused only bliss. And it didn't looked like DMT at all. Some trees have a very desirable alkaloidal profile and there is a seasonal variability too: some trees producing dmt only seeds were found to produce only Bufotenine and 5-meo dmt some years later. I would not rely on the alkaloidal profile for botanical identification !

The potency is doubled when one consume a little bit of B.Caapi before (even just munching on a twig), it becomes more visual, deep and more guidance.

Caapi is used in the preparation of Yopo by some indigenous tribes.

Torsten, the Yopo you had was it already prepared or was it just the seeds ?

[shruman]

"I never saw any proof about this."

I thought it was BS too and both have the U.

"Some trees have a very desirable alkaloidal profile and there is a seasonal variability too"

So it would seem.

"some trees producing dmt only seeds were found to produce only Bufotenine and 5-meo dmt some years later"

I've read this, was it Ott?, have you got the ref?

"I would not rely on the alkaloidal profile for botanical identification !"

Agreed, though we realy do'nt have jack to go on without plants, then its still dicey. Woulda been bloody nice to grow out those beans though.

Alchemist, interesting little experiment, so your foaf were trying to make 5-Aco-DMT?, I'm no chemhead, genuine Q?

"Anyway, peregrina would contain mostly dmt and 5meo-dmt, neither of which would undergo much of a reaction with acetic acid."

Just curious as to why the OH would but the Meo/DMT would'nt?

"5-AcO-DMT weighs 20 % more than 5-HO-DMT, so a 20% larger dose should be needed. It should convert to 5-HO-DMT in the brain, just like 4-AcO-DMT converts to 4-HO-DMT (psilocin) in the brain. And it should have much less side effects because it should enter the brain more easily than 5-HO-DMT does. 5-HO-DMT causes side effects; instead of it all going into the brain, because it's very water soluble, a lot stays in the body and causes bodily effects. But 5-AcO-DMT wouldn’t have that problem because it’s much less water soluble."

http://www.dmt-nexus.com/forum/default.asp...osts&t=2523

So is that what you'd expect?, bufo with less side effects?

[Torsten]

Torsten, the Yopo you had was it already prepared or was it just the seeds ?

both. however, I base my comparison on the unprepared materials.

[planthelper]

Why is'nt more being done with nasty old cane toads?, c'mon northener's do us all a favour.

we have discussed bufo marinus at the old ea, the consent in a nutshell was that, this toad's sercretion contais some toxins aswell with the bufo.

i have experimented with it twice only, once straight from the toad, and once after extracting it via a straight to B methode,

the idea being that this prozess would leave the nasties behind.

[Alchemica]

Shruman,

The 5-AcO-DMT product is very clean, pleasant and doesn't seem to cause any nausea nor body load. It has only been taken to "antidepressant" levels (mood lift with a slight "dream-like" quality to it). The standard yopo caused strong nausea after a dose (750mg, that was after a solid feed, so if it was taken on an empty stomach, it might be better). The guy in South America will get some more opinions for us from more experienced bioassayers.

[FancyPants]

I thought it was the Bufo that made you nausea's...Colubrina then definately has a mixture of the 2 alks..can distinctly tell when open eyed the DMT content is less but is definitely there. That symetrical overlaying of objects to give them that carnival atmosphere look is definitely there. There is a strong peanut smell when preparing the Colubrina seed which carries through to the smoke and finished powder.

Wish one could sample both side by side to get a clearer understanding of the two.

H.

This is exactly how SWIM's -admittedly extremely limited- experience of colubrina (twice) played out. Medium strength smoked, very ocean-like wavy lines, blissful. High strength shafted, very geometric and hard body load, OandCEVs pretty intense and demanding.

Sounds like the seeds just vary independantly from the above posts. Guess SWIM would also prefer real Yopo anyway.

[woof woof woof]

so close and yet sooo far away.............. I am a 50 min plane ride away from Papa Chaves's country........ time, but mainly $$........

I need serious sponsors..... then this whole peregrina matter will be settled once and for all! will pay half the trip myself. I think a week would suffice to source the seeds.

trip would probably cost around 750 Usd. flight to Caracas, then an inland flight...... unless it is managable by bus.... would most likely be a horibly long bus ride. and a place to stay of course.

just have to find out the season peregrina sets seed.

I am serious if you guys are!

[woof woof woof]

if I had more frequent internet access I bet i would be able to source it through someone online! So many islands and places where the peregrina seems to grow.

Caribbean: Dominica; Dominican Republic; Grenada; Haiti; Martinique; Puerto Rico; St. Vincent and Grenadines - St. Vincent; Trinidad and Tobago [Trinidad]

Northern South America: Guyana; Suriname; Venezuela

[Zaka]

if I had more frequent internet access I bet i would be able to source it through someone online! So many islands and places where the peregrina seems to grow.

Caribbean: Dominica; Dominican Republic; Grenada; Haiti; Martinique; Puerto Rico; St. Vincent and Grenadines - St. Vincent; Trinidad and Tobago [Trinidad]

Northern South America: Guyana; Suriname; Venezuela

Irie Woof,

I've looked all over my island and not found any anadenanthera of any type...., I'm in between St.Vincent & Martinque.

Where would you expect them to grow? Coastal-Rain Forrest????Any ideas?

Respect

Z

Edited June 15, 2009 by Zaka

[woof woof woof]

Zaka! I would think they would be more in a open area. Have you checked local botany books?

I found leonotis leonoris after years of looking for it......... it was in the local botany books! Maybe also check with archeological / history people of St Lucia.

Indeed Zaka brah........ irie limin coolin and stylin!

[mutant]

Hey, what about that thing that the active in the prepared snuff is Bufotenine-HCl and all that stuff??? I thought it was a myth that these seeds do contain known 'desirable' tryptamines or at least that they contain them in sufficient amounts, and that the whole 'trick' was to do the right tek to tranform the bufotenine rich seeds to an active bufo HCl snuff.... ??? Any comments??? I haven't read about these stuff for a long time, but this is what I rememeber...

[sandalwood]

I have seen a person take 1 gram of cebil seed prepared snuff, and consume it almost all at once.

they were drinking, and were told not to mix any drugs with this snuff, and they were also told the potency.

but they didnt listen, and they proceeded to consume it all in a few quick lines.

within minutes they were out cold.

people watching thought that he OD'd on heroin or something. but he never quit breathing.

he was out for over a half an hour.

from his experience, he thought that cops and ambulances came, and took him to the hospital...but he died on the way.

he was having a near death experience...that was all in his head.

he woke up after a half an hour in a state of epiphany..

what he thought was going to be just another drunken psychedelic splurge...turned into a faux near death experience that he claims woke him up to a greater reality.

this was all on 1 gram of regular cebil seed.

I know another older person that wont touch the stuff without coca leaf. he says that argentinian shamans chew coca and smoke cebil seed together.

he claims that some of the physical pain is taken away under the effects of coca. less nausea.

he also smokes the cebil seed over insuffilation.

another person I know in south america makes a simple water extract of the snuff. this water extract is concentrated, and allows for a larger amount of snuff to be absorbed with much less nasal pain.

[Chiral]

I've read that in South America a small line of coke is used just prior to Yopo snuff so as to numb the nasal cavities and help with the pain..

H.