Where/how did your fascinations begin?

[Chullii]

Sort of had reservations about starting a thread, figured i should stop being a wimp, so..

I take it we all have some kind of deep-seeded interest in entheogens, yes? Especially if you've gone as far as to join a forum devoted to the discussion of such things

How did you all come about these interests?

What exactly was it that made you want to keep coming back to these things? Was it a particular experience with a particular substance?

Are we all just products of our 'rebellious' teenage years?

Tell mee.

(hope that wasn't worded too dodgily)

[faustus]

hah. this thread has evoked a long forgotten memory.

when i was in year 5 i recall having an encyclopaedia book at home, but only one, which happened to be "L" ... i read with great fascination about this drug called LSD, and there was this extremely creepy painting, something out of hellraiser, that an artist had allegedly drawn under the influence of acid. around that time happy healthy harold and his little indoctrination van were doing the rounds, and so i was anti drugs and always had the perception of acid as a drug that produced nightmares. regardless of this, it still fascinated me. i even wrote a creative story with this really bizarre nightmare vibe, the punchline being that right at the end we're told that it was all just an acid trip (my teacher was so impressed that he even showed it to the principal!)

but as to why, i guess my brain was always wired that way. fascination from any early age with religion, the concept of death, the mind, the brain, the paranormal.

[PhoenixSon]

peter staffords encyclopedia of psychedelics!!

plus enviroment plus curiosity plus a search for something more.

a super dupa plus of eating some fungi at the age of 14 and never being the same

also some major anxiety attacks that i have found have been enlightening in a way.

[nabraxas]

most people i've seen who take LSD or shrooms for the first time---including myself, seem to spend a fair portion ov the trip laughing.

IF every laugh is recognition ov a moment ov enlightenment then there would seem to be alot ov potential for illuminating revelation in these drugs....that's what brought me back.

[JDanger]

Step 1 - Strict religious upbringing (age 0-13)

Step 2 - Become disillusioned with the religious order (and by proxy, most of mainstream societal life). Maintain an openness to and search for 'something more' (age 13-15)

Step 3 - Google 'magic mushrooms' and discover the notion of a drug-induced spiritual/religious/mystical experience. My God, I'm finally interested in something. (age 15)

Step 4 - Continue reading about drugs until you find some. Seriously, I did little except go to school and browse Erowid for a couple of years (age 15-17)

Step 5 - Cough syrup is fun, but not quite magic (16)

Step 6 - LSD. There is a God (and I am He) -- 'Dude, if only everyone could experience this...' (17)

Step 7 - More LSD (and psychoactive friends). Turns out drugs aren't quite the magic bullet, but they sure can help. Slowly work my way back down to earth; everything is much more interesting when you have the benefit of new perspectives. Positively engage with the people and world around you--life has new meaning (18-19).

That's it in a nutshell. I'm still way young, but I'm glad I've realised the trip for what it is. I spend much less time high now than I used to, due partially to the fact that I'm generally interested in the world in my normal state anyway. That, and my desire to have a more structured approach to my inner voyages, now that I've had the sledgehammer experiences.

Onwards and upwards.

[Chiral]

LOL at ^^^ J Danger thats piss funny..love it.

Man Twix's account is quite similar to mine. Its amazing to read these path's we take to get here.

I'm sure I was born with an interest...I was in so much trouble when I was young that my father permanently grounded me till further notice at the age of 13. When not eating or having to go to school I was locked in our reading room/office. The only thing I could do to occupy myself was to read through the Funk and Wagnals encyclopaedia set we had in there. I had allready read Go Ask Alice and was obsessed on find out more..I went to every single reference in those books for LSD and any other type of drug I could find. I read all about Claviceps Purpurea a million times and was fascinated by such things. There was a wealth of information in those books even though they where quite old. I don't know why but I was obsessed by psychedelics at such a young age...but had not done any and wouldn't until I was 18. MJ took front seat from then on and we got very good a growing em in pots in our back yards...hidden of course..my neighbors brother had a small forest of em hidden behind some citrus trees and he gave us the seeds. I grew a massive passion fruit vine in our back yard and that took over the whole back fence and I was so proud of it. My first experience of smoking something was of gum leaves rolled in a page out of my school book..that smoked up big and stunk like hell. Ahh the good old years...stealing ciggys, nurturing seedlings and smoking the leaves lol...stealing Dads meds and necking them to see what happened...DUMB...but ever since I read Go Ask Alice and those reference books I have never looked back...feels like I was destined to allways lead this life..I particulary enjoy the Christmas dinner arguments about my life's choices but am proud of what I have done and would't trade it for anything.

H.

[JDanger]

I particulary enjoy the Christmas dinner arguments about my life's choices but am proud of what I have done and would't trade it for anything.

H.

Hah! You should see what happens when I go back to my mum's bible study group.

[Chullii]

Step 1 - Strict religious upbringing (age 0-13)

Step 2 - Become disillusioned with the religious order (and by proxy, most of mainstream societal life). Maintain an openness to and search for 'something more' (age 13-15)

Step 3 - Google 'magic mushrooms' and discover the notion of a drug-induced spiritual/religious/mystical experience. My God, I'm finally interested in something. (age 15)

Step 4 - Continue reading about drugs until you find some. Seriously, I did little except go to school and browse Erowid for a couple of years (age 15-17)

Step 5 - Cough syrup is fun, but not quite magic (16)

Hey man, i can really relate to that. Almost down to the exact age too.

Were you also shunned by your religious sect?

[Alchemica]

My biggest turning point was when I lost faith in mainstream pharmaceuticals (even though I'd devoted my highschool years and uni time to studying Molecular and Drug Design/pharmacology). Once I realised that there was indeed more to life than my chemical-minded brain had ever considered, thanks to the use of enthogens and other "supplements", things changed for the better. The highlight (to date, anyway) was my experience with "The Devil" and finding out that my life had basically followed "The Game of Life". After that, I was a convert. I'll admit that I'm slowly working my way through being diagnosed with every DSM-IV in the book by my team of shrinks, so think what you wish of my words.

The elixir for releasing a man's "inner devil"

...and continuing on with "The Game of Life"!

Special thanks go to Mr Griffin...

Note: to prevent anyone replicating this procedure, turning into The Devil and then being unable to rectify the situation, I have kept the Secret Potion Ingredients to myself (have to chase down my Toxicology Screening, or ask me in person)

Above: Me after the events...

(Picture credit goes to Little-Nicky, used under Terms of Fair Use Policy)

Don't diss extreme psychosis 'til you get to try it... for me it was like living in a cartoon with Gumby, Sponge-Bob and Aliens... quite entertaining!

--------------------------------------------------------------

(I suggest you listen to Dj Zany - Science Religion or Qlimax - The Prophecy while you read this, just to make it even harder to get a grip on what I'm trying to say)

The words of a "Certified Insane Chemist", stated to the best of his knowledge, who lived in the Sound of Silence a few months ago:

"A 20 year old male, taking 80mg/day of paroxetine experienced manic-type symptoms under the influence of the medication, forcing a taper down to 40mg/day. Sleep was disturbed extensively for approximately two weeks and symptoms of agitation and anxiety increased. The patient, while manic, began inhalation of the volatile solvent, diethyl ether, for the period of approximately three days. Ether was highly sought by the individual because of the anxiolytic and sedative effects; reducing the manic-type symptoms he experienced.

After the use of ether for three days, myoclonus in a rather un-normal fashion was noted by the man, causing contraction of the ring/index fingers towards the palms and winking of one eye in sets of two winks/cycle. The patient began to recite "The Devil" persistently and made continual requests for more ether. Eventually, totally out of character, he began writing on the door with a white-board marker, listing all the "bad things" he had done in his life (nothing too bad, just chemistry related things, mind you). Freaked out by the events, he consumed 1000ug of "you know what" which caused a rapid reversal of "devil twitches" back into a manic phase where he experienced "psychotic like states of artificial intelligence and felt a need to use music to work out "WTF?!?". After a day or so, 10mg olanzapine, oral, was administered causing a rapid decline in mood and some suicidal idealation.

The patient was admitted to the RAH and rapid detoxification from paroxetine, 40mg - 0mg overnight, commenced. Lorazepam was also utilised for anxiety, muscle cramping and insomnia. Care was continued in a Loony Ward for a week.

Unusual and religious-type experiences w/ the ability to tune into wireless-internet electromagnetic fields, see the future? (or past) on TV, communicate with satellites/aliens and change radio stations remotely (I attempted to reality check all of them, except for the aliens -eg. extremely atypical psychosis) persisted for 4 weeks, after which the man regained semi-normal functioning. All these were totally out-of-character for the man, who normally thought all Spiritual "dimensions" were "lies" before the experience.

Residual myoclonus was resolved with clonazepam and piracetam, antipsychotics ceased (against all "professional" medical advice)"

Anyway, no one will believe a word that comes out of my mouth... but whatever - I though it was weird and interesting to say the least. In retrospect, it was both an educational experience and something funny to laugh at.

[JDanger]

RE: Chullii

I wasn't shunned until I left. I never really felt like part of the group 'cause my dad left the sect when I was like, 6 (got kicked out because he raised a biblical point that went against the church's grain), but I was still an accepted member of the church. Once I started spending more time with my dad and less time at church though, it kinda went down hill. They were eager to remind me of God's plan for me and all that shit, but once I started listening to worldly music and wearing eyeliner I started coming less, and their reminders subsequently dropped in frequency (interesting--they don't try to convert you unless they have their brethren to back them up).

I was happy to not have any contact with them, but since I found my slice of enlightenment (and integrated it, somewhat) I've been happy to visit occasionally and keep in touch with the childhood friends. They're not hostile, but the smiles look a bit cardboard.

I did have a scare a few months back when I returned for the first time in ages. They really put the pressure on and for a while I thought my chosen path was wrong. Gave me some psychological turmoil for a week. It ended in me going to a bible study group and de-railing their study in favour of a theological debate, which as you can probably imagine ended up with a dozen or so fundamentalists I grew up with (including my mother) semi-guilt tripping me into repentence. It was even worse 'cause there were a few guys who'd had plenty of drug experience (trips included) before Jesus 'freed them from their sin'. Anyway, despite the blatant irrationality of their arguments, I was totally about to cave in. Thankfully I managed to hold out til I got home without saying their 'sinners prayer'. I couldn't sleep--I had Jesus on the brain and ended up praying (I told Jesus I'd roll with him if he spoke to me himself, not through some douchey third party, as if The Almighty didn't have a mouth). That calmed me down a bit, but after sneaking out for a joint, I was graced with a brief but intense experience in which God (or whatever) told me to chillax cause I was onto something good (paraphrased, obviously). It shook me for a while, but since then I've been able to accept the 'conviction' I felt as nothing more than intense socio-psychological pressure, as opposed to 'Jesus knocking on the door of my heart'.

I'm also much more sympathetic to the religious stance (despite the commonly attached ignorance)--it's just not for me.

Glad I got that bug out of my system, but overall I think the religious influence as a kid has done me well. Here's hoping no latent mental issues emerge.

[edit] Sorry for the hijack, spelling.

Edited December 24, 2008 by JDanger

[Chullii]

Oh i agree, i'm glad i've been exposed to at least one intense religious point of view. I feel as if i've covered that base now, and i can delve a bit further into different parts of this huge world (because i've only just discovered that there's a heckload of alternative avenues to take a walk down, despite their objections) and perhaps return to what i learnt with my time spent there.

Actually, i felt pretty gypped when i took the first steps to leave the place. There i was being fed someone else's interperetation of the holy book, and my family was actively preventing me from forming any other kind of opinion on anything in my life. Everything revolved around this church's idea of 'justness' and 'rightness' and the Over-seers of the church, via my parents, were suppressing even the smallest argument against their ideologies.

Something that really spun me out was that this was just one of a bunch of denominations (let alone religions) that were all jumping up and down, claiming to be the right one.

That said though, i have no right to complain. That's just how churches work, yeah? Just seems a bit lofty of them to snob those who decide to work things out for themselves.

I have a question that's been nagging at me for a while now. Is there anything specifically mentioned in the bible about the use of substances being evil? Or is it all hearsay that's been assumed through other controversial scriptures that might've, maybe somehow indirectly been talking about those things?

[herbologist]

Genesis 1:12 (King James Version)

And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:29

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed

So I guess Sally is not allowed by God

But on that note it also says somewhere something about 'obeying the law of the land'

Moses was on drugs

Edited December 24, 2008 by salem13

[ajna]

hehe good thread, got me thinking...

i think mine started with a general interest in altered states of consciousness and spirituality. as a youngen i had quite a few spontaneous out of body experiences which really freaked me out within my christian context of understanding, i needed to know what was happening to me and the church had no answers. i couldnt swallow my family's faith yet still had huge amounts of christian guilt, there was some point where i went "well fuck it, if i'm going to hell i may as well make friends with the devil" lol. after some years of just plain rebellion, i started reading about eastern mysticism, magic and occult type subjects at some point, which i had no idea would lead me back to god again.

also in there somewhere was a phase in primary school where our playtime was spent passing out - we'd bend down and hyperventilate, then stand up against a wall and have a friend push suddenly on your chest and out go the lights - did this once on the church wall, came to looking up at the cross with the sun shining behind it, feeling like i'd been touched by god. i think that helped me to be less angry at my parents and church goers, but i always wondered if any of them had actually had that type of experience or were just being sheep. but it made me curious to want to repeatedly examine this type of experience and i looked for other techniques

i was also always in to music, and it just so happened all the bands i really liked were trippers (led zep, pink floyd, etc), and i became fascinated by the whole 60s lsd story. i smoked pot and played guitar a lot, got a taste of what was to about come. when i got acid, i think i was 16, it was the epitome of everything i had been looking for, and that was the beginning of this love affair. mushrooms came almost 2 years after that and took it to a whole new level, mother nature got a strong hold of my balls and the Gardener was born

ahhhh memories....

[Chullii]

But on that note it also says somewhere something about 'obeying the law of the land'

It's almost like holding candy just out of arms reach of some kid. God gives man plants. God lets man rule the land. Man screws man over.

i think mine started with a general interest in altered states of consciousness and spirituality. as a youngen i had quite a few spontaneous out of body experiences which really freaked me out within my christian context of understanding, i needed to know what was happening to me and the church had no answers. i couldnt swallow my family's faith yet still had huge amounts of christian guilt, there was some point where i went "well fuck it, if i'm going to hell i may as well make friends with the devil" lol.

is that referring to the times you spent hyperventilating in primary school?

Edited December 24, 2008 by Chullii

[compost]

Back in school a friend is obsessing over a copy of 'Food of the Gods'. He dissapeared up north for a while, then came back with a glint in his eye, crashed at mine for a couple of nights while in town, convinced me easily to go mushroom hunting. But first we should grind up this bark stuff, wrap it up in tally-ho's and eat it then when we get out to the paddocks we smoke some fat joints of some more bark, Acacia or something.. Haha I'm a bit apprehensive but I trust this guy. So we go hunting. Get yelled at by some neighbours wondering who we are. All finds turn out to be no good. We fast learn the good ones don't grow in cow shit down here.. No noticable effect from the bark, but from here on begins an obsession..

Keep coming back because I love the mystery.

[FancyPants]

Was a fairly good girl in high school, with just some MJ and alcy use. Had a friend who was extremely irresponsible with illegal substances, so I developed a very wary aversion to such things. Matured a bit, got a new crowd of friends who for the most part were pretty (or at least comparatively) responsible with the illicits. I felt comfortable enough to trust them (and myself at that point) to expand my horizons. The third illicit I ever used was 'cid, only 2 months after first disco biscuit. That was only just over two years ago. Fell in love with hallucinogens. Had an AMAZING Trip earlier in the year and feel like I've never travelled or thought of more than I ever have that one night while barely leaving a mattress on a friend's balcony those 8 hours. Discovered DMT when reading up various substances. Got obsessed with it, only ever got to sample the once. Obsession turned to other entheogens and more "natural" things to brighten up daily life. Obsession still kicking on strong. I'm extremely curious by nature and I want to try everything I can even if it's just the once. Just to see and know. I also have a pretty healthy respect for such substances.

Once I get intrigued about a particular subject I will read up anything and everything I can on it. I still haven't gotten around to going out and "identifying" acacias of certain species, but that's only because I'm too lazy to wander around by myself.

[JDanger]

I have a question that's been nagging at me for a while now. Is there anything specifically mentioned in the bible about the use of substances being evil? Or is it all hearsay that's been assumed through other controversial scriptures that might've, maybe somehow indirectly been talking about those things?

Alcohol is a subtance. Jesus made wine. He was also accused of being an alcoholic when he was partying with whores.

The standard response I got to this objection ran: "In the original Greek, there were 7 different words used for wine, only 2 of which contained alcohol".

And you should spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the Lord and rejoice, you and your household (Deuteronomy 14:1 King James Version)

Another version read "wine or strong drink", which I could (admitedly at a stretch) equate with some kind of non-alcoholic brew.

Genesis 1:12 (King James Version)

And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:29

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed

So I guess Sally is not allowed by God

But on that note it also says somewhere something about 'obeying the law of the land'

Moses was on drugs

Awesome--I am so noting these.

In my afore mentioned 'debate' I asked, "If drugs are inherently evil, why did God create cannabis?"

Response: "The Devil made it."

I shit you not.

hehe good thread, got me thinking...

i think mine started with a general interest in altered states of consciousness and spirituality. as a youngen i had quite a few spontaneous out of body experiences which really freaked me out within my christian context of understanding, i needed to know what was happening to me and the church had no answers. i couldnt swallow my family's faith yet still had huge amounts of christian guilt, there was some point where i went "well fuck it, if i'm going to hell i may as well make friends with the devil" lol. after some years of just plain rebellion, i started reading about eastern mysticism, magic and occult type subjects at some point, which i had no idea would lead me back to god again.

I also went through a period of being interested in magic/the occult. Then I googled shrooms, and also found my way back to God.

Yes, this thread is dope.

[ajna]

is that referring to the times you spent hyperventilating in primary school?

nah more referring to obe/astral travel type experiences i had regularly when trying to fall asleep and other similarly related things, i'd float around the house or down the street, usually unable to willingly get back into my body which was the scariest part. "it's just a bad dream, dont think about it so much" never seemed to satisfy!

Then I googled shrooms, and also found my way back to God

*makes an offering to Arch Angel Google*

heheh

i do wonder what it would've been like without the likes of erowid and such, life savers

[Chullii]

nah more referring to obe/astral travel type experiences i had regularly when trying to fall asleep and other similarly related things, i'd float around the house or down the street, usually unable to willingly get back into my body which was the scariest part. "it's just a bad dream, dont think about it so much" never seemed to satisfy!

Jeebus, do you know what triggered them?

[ajna]

well what they call sleep paralysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis) is fairly common and just happens to some people more than others, i think it's all related phenomena. the paralysis and body buzz people get with sleep paralysis was like the first stage of obe for me. later when i found books on these things i read the buzz sensations being explained as "the astral body separating from the physical body"

not sure what or if there is a trigger, but it did coincide with erratic sleeping patterns which i apparently had since very young

[mutant]

Swims reasons for ethno fascination huh???

Epiphanies, obvious or more esoterical/sentiental which took place even with early cannabis experiences. First blotter experience some 10 years ago. Philosophy, liking for knowledge, liking for more points of view that psych experiences caused.

Not even a tiny metaphysical bit, but these last years, I have come to understand metaphysical too. Not for me or Swim, but for the majority of people. Swim is still a hardline atheist. Psychedelics can help someone to understand himself and the world and nature of reality better - they CAN do this, doesn't mean they WILL ;)

Another thing Swim was alwasy fascinated by was 'madness'.. There is an obvious link between freedom , drugs and 'madness'

Abraxas reply also is worth underlining, very significant comment

most people i've seen who take LSD or shrooms for the first time---including myself, seem to spend a fair portion ov the trip laughing.

IF every laugh is recognition ov a moment ov enlightenment then there would seem to be alot ov potential for illuminating revelation in these drugs....that's what brought me back.

[Inyan]

For me, my mother was disillusioned by her religious back ground and sought out her own truth. She would invite people of every religious faith and or new idea over if it appealed to her and sometimes even if it didn't in an attempt to uncover some common grain of truth. This is what I grew up in. I saw and experienced many things/feelings, etc. that were beyond my comprehension. Many still are. I read books like many of you in pursuit of some grains of truth interspersed within the madness that is man. I looked for commonalities and still, I didn't comprehend or really understand much, but it did fascinate me. I read many of the Carlos Castenada books repeatedly and eventually became apprenticed to one medicine man and then started studying with another. I traveled and experienced many traditional ceremonies and discovered that what sounded like fiction wasn't really fiction at all. Yet, what was seemingly fictional still had its purpose and purpose or intent could be bent to the will and the ego of the person and as such I came to realize many things that I still don't comprehend in its entirety. What I can say is that for every question answered came more questions and more disillusionment along with a little light at the end of the tunnel so to speak. If you've ever watched the Emerald Forest you have a taste, albeit second hand, of what I am speaking of. There is no replacement for direct experience in my mind and we are all colored by the experiences we have opened ourselves up to, our culture, and our own perceptual biases. Entheogens are a tool, just as meditation, vision questing, sundancing, ceremony, etc. is a tool. What we get out of them as individuals is different each and every time. To me, they are keys to different doors. Just because you have a key doesn't mean you will find the same door each time or even the door you are looking for. They help to open you up to new ways of perceiving the world, yourself, and to see behind the reality that has been taught and allows a different perspective to be experienced. How much this alters you as a person or whether this is perceived as positive or negative depends on the person. Just because you have the keys to a race car doesn't mean you know how to drive or should enter yourself into a race. That's my two cents at any rate. I've left out much, but the feel for what I'm trying to extrapolate is there. Whether someone is an atheist, gnostic, or etc. These are all just titles to try to explain to others where you are at in your perception. What really matters is different to everyone and changes as we change. For me, a genuine unconditional love of oneself is first and foremost. A genuine unconditional love of nature or someone else... that's just icing on the top. Do we all have our faults? Do we fall prey to ego? I think that with absolute power comes absolute corruption. The more power one attains or thinks one has attained the easier it is to succumb to ones ego and the easier it is to have it grow out of proportion as it is feed by ones followers. I tend to ramble a bit and leave much unanswered, but in the end what does it matter if it isn't your truth or something you have felt as a personal truth? Freedom to change and to grow.... to realize when you've become trapped in a new way of thinking that while different is no more real than a previous way of thinking or perceiving. Time to turn one perception of reality back to the other and see like so many mirrors reflecting distorted images backwards and forwards till something of value is attained. To let go of such things when the time has come and to allow oneself to be open to that letting go. Form or formless, what matters? Perception? Intent? How you feel? How others feel? Be true to yourself. Love yourself. Realize that everyone is where they are and that what they believe or feel is just as real to them as what you believe and feel and just as important to them. Self perception, perception of others and the world.... these are the things we can change and how we react to them. We can not change how someone else reacts to us as we are only in control of ourselves at best.

[mutant]

Nice, nice, I liked especially the defending of the definate ego-structure of each individual as a way of mechanism and coping with.

[chilli]

mutant, are you referring to the stories on this thread, or something else?

Chullii, the Greek word pharmakeia is spoken of in a negative context in the New Testament, usually translated as sorcery or magic, eg. to Babylon in Revelation "by your pharmakeia the nations were deceived", but it relates to mixing of potions etc, so there are people who say this applies to drug users today, some would even go so far as to say pharmaceutical companies and doctors etc.

[mutant]

If you're talking about the metaphysical comment, no I was not referring to any particular posts here, but such phenomenons in general. Now that I think of it, it might have been brought out by some comments earlier in this thread, but like I said, my comment was about understanding both the link between religious spirituality and entheogens and the 'believe' status of large part of the so called community, but not for someone in particular.

Like I have said before, I regard the coroboree one of the forums with the best signal to noise ratio, so that says a lot. The fact that its based in oz [so it's not full of idiotic americans] is also a factor.

I like what you said about what jew and christian shit philosophies and ideologies did to ancient knowledge of drugs. They banned and chased it down as much as they could, even till the late middle ages.