Painkillers killing me...

[Chiral]

Haven't really wanted to say anything about this as its a deep personal struggle that I have had to deal with for the longest time. I have found it impossible over the last 5-6 yrs to give up painkillers and I can feel that they are killing me slowly..Because they are so cheap and readily available its so tempting to have a box on hand constantly. When you consider that 12.8mg of codeine is in each Nurofen plus, its an easy way to get pain free and fluffy all day. The thing is I don't just take a few, I hammer them hard and get very numb so as i can function practically everyday..I kinda take breaks when I'm entertaining some Entheogens, but soon turn back to them the following few days..cant use Trich tea every day as pain relief obviously. I really wanna get off these insidious pills and turn my back on them forever..I seem to have quite an addictive personality and have struggled hard core with Meth in the past and still crave that shit daily. Thing is I don't really have to much pain ..although my headaches and migraines are real bad sometimes..if I stop taking them I get numb legs at night and can't sleep and its the worst feeling ever. Its a kinda cold turkey I think. I'd love to find an alternative to opiates and be able to use it instead..something like a smoke mix I can use instead to take my mind of Opiates and painkillers. I really don't know how it started and am sick with myself for having this pitiful addiction.

Can anyone here recommend something that's relatively simple and plentiful that I can grow and smoke or grind up and prepare for a daily dose to stop me taking pharms..I'm willing to listen to any cures or any stories that anyone has to offer me cause I'm desperate to quit. I've been thinking Ibogaine seriously lately and have been doing a hell of a lot of research on it..I'm really thinking I need something that brutal to curb this as it's killing me quickly the way I'm abusing them. Don't advise me to do meditation or yoga yet as I already take time to do those techniques and find they are more beneficial once I have the addiction under control, like I did once before but then fell off the wagon so to speak.

H.

[Undergrounder]

Is it killing you slowly because of its impact on your lifestyle, or is it the ibuprofen that you're worried is killing your liver? Maybe extracting the codeine from codeine/paracetamol would be safer? i don't know.

[mu!]

weeeeeeeeed

[Undergrounder]

Only thing i can think of is reducing the amount over time (year right as if that works LOL). Actually you know what, keep a tab of anti-anxiety pills and sleeping pills by the bedside if you do try to go cold turkey would help, relieve the fidgetiness in your legs and help you get to sleep too. If you can reduce somehow i suggest you do, doing it on holiday where you don't see the pharmacy everyday (and you don't know WHERE the pharmacy is as well) would be easier.

[faustus]

hunab, sent you a PM

Can anyone here recommend something that's relatively simple and plentiful that I can grow and smoke or grind up and prepare for a daily dose to stop me taking pharms.

i think this is a maladaptive perspective to take. essentially you're looking to replace your drug dependency from a pharmaceutical to a botanical compound.

[PD.]

exactly, TE, you cant replace one crutch with another if your true desire is to stop. Like i have mentioned HK to you personally, the only thing that can make you stop is you, searching for something else to replace the problem will do only that, replace the problem......with another problem.

Like you say, IYO you have an addictive personality so looking for something else to replace it will only make the next substitute the problem and so on and so on. I think you need to look within yourself and be honest with yourself about these problems, therein lies the answer my friend.

[immanuel]

I was once addicted to codeine pretty badly, I went cold turkey and suffered days of torturing physical withdrawals. Codeine is a very addictive drug! If you are getting physical withdrawals when you stop, weed is very effective in taking the edge of, so is getting drunk. Some benzo's are good for sleep, but once you get through withdrawals the hardest part is staying clean. There's no easy way around it, you've just got to be strong and keep yourself off it, it's too easy to fall back in again.

Edited November 14, 2008 by mardybum

[PD.]

so is getting drunk

There is no other terror on earth like WDs and a hangover, NO OTHER!!!

There is a sweet spot with beer and WDs, once you feel that slight numbness, like 3 or 4 beers you HAVE to stop or face the consequences

[immanuel]

I found that getting drunk, and staying drunk, took the edge off for me.

[Amulte]

ive had a life long battle with codeine. been on it since a young child, doc prescribing panadine forte for bad headaches.

cold turkey is the best way, ive done it several times, only a few days of them and your better for going through it, it reminds you to be more careful with codeine. cold turkey is no fun but really its the only and most effective way ive found. ween yourself a little then just stop all together and ride it out. gabaergic's can take the edge off, like a cup of kava, a beer or 3, but stay away from benzos so you dont replace one addiction with another.

personally i dont think codeine warrants iboga, and ive battled several opiate addictions (H, oxy, HB, CW, O, C and a little M to name a few) and in my experience codeine is a cake walk (altho that may be only by contrast). Id love to get this opiate monkey off my back one day, but i believe there are others more in need of ibogaine and not quite enough to go round. go for the hard run detox yourself.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Amulte

[Evil Genius]

If you wouldnt live in OZ i´d say Kratom! But as its not available there, i´d say that weed will be easier to get! It´s also illegal but better than the downward spiral! Its possible to live a normal life AND to smoke MJ! With painkillers, its another story! Believe me, i know! It took me months to undo the damage painkillers did to my body and after one year, i still havent gotten my normal sleep rythm back! I dont smoke, but if i would, MJ would be my very first herbal way to deal with pain! bye Eg

edit: oh by the way....getting clean is another nice option! Its possible! It just takes a few very shitty months filled with craving, depressions and anxieties but then your free and everything will go back to normal again! Think about it! Its such a great feeling to not need drugs in order to feel good!

Edited November 15, 2008 by Evil Genius

[devance]

Join a health club for the steam and sauna baths which will relax you.

Or make one.

Wish I had one.

Its just a alcohol and nicotine problem for me but only because nothing else affects me [just as well I think].

[baphomet]

codeine is a cake walk, i believe there are others more in need of ibogaine and not quite enough to go round. go for the hard run detox yourself.

Amen,

IMO your best bet would be to get some tramal and catapress and dry out, then don't ever use it again (if you do really want to quit that is ).

[Psylocke]

Go to:

www.thekratomforum.com

Ask for help there. There is a way out.

[DreamingNagual]

I agree with Baph & PD, You really do have to make that commitment to urself to not use again.

Codiene withdrawals, depending on what your daily dosage is will last about 4/5 days at most for the Cramps, Cravings, Night Sweats, Shitting thru the eye of a needle etc.

If you cant handle cold turkey Start by Weaning your codiene dose down,

then when you are ready to go cold, Tramal will help ease the body pains, and Catapress will help the restless legs. Seroquell will help you sleep thru the nights, Along with a bit of weed for the anxiety.

Dont use benzos or anyother similar addictive subtances or you will have another problem on your hands.

Get plenty of Water and good food, Including lots of fresh Fruit/Veg, Salmon, meats Etc.

Goin for walks thru the day will help take your mind of things & also help sleep at night & sauna is good idea to help Relax & sweat some of the toxins out of your system!

Opiate addiction is an evil bitch if she Grabs you by the balls, and after the physical withdrawals have ended You will then have to battle your own demons with the Mental side of the addiction, which in most cases can feel quite as severe as the physical side of things.

It has gotten the best of us at one time or another, But with good Friends and someone to talk about how your feeling makes it all so much easier.

Good Luck Hanub & I hope you can break thru this addiction and kick that monkey back into the trees where it belongs

EDIT, GOT THE NAMES MIXED UP

Edited November 15, 2008 by DreamingNagual

[Chiral]

I'm not quite sure that finding something else to smoke or eat in replacement of codeine is replacing one addiction for another..I mean opiates are hard core physically addictive and harmful to your body and character..to have a non physically addictive replacement doesn't seem so bad..its the mind altering that attracts me..I think I have a problem with feeling normal...its totally boring and I feel like nothing and don't want to do anything ever. Thats not to say my addiction is due to that but it does have something to do with it.

I have done cold turkey and stopped once for about a year but its been 5 years since then..I feel its making me sick inside and affecting my health..i can see it in my face..I think I need to go fishing or get away and stop thinking about it..when my mind is fully occupied with excitement I tend to not think of such things as pain or medication. there has been some very nice thoughts here and seems I'm not alone with this addiction. Makes me really angry at Pharm company's it really does.

H.

[Amulte]

its the mind altering that attracts me..I think I have a problem with feeling normal...its totally boring and I feel like nothing and don't want to do anything ever. Thats not to say my addiction is due to that but it does have something to do with it.

forgive me for being blunt but "no shit". i mean, obviously, your here arent you. one would be hard struck to find a member who doesnt feel the same way you do or hasnt at some point in their career. youve done cold turkey before, you can do it again. you know how easy it is. you can do it hunab. we can all offer advice from our experiences but you are the one who can do it for yourself, you know you can, and you know what you need to do it. you know yourself better than anyone, get your comforts together, you wanna go fishin to detox then i suggest do it. sounds like a great idea actually, camping for detox. to avoid addiction and hardcore habituation i have to detox atleast 3 times a year, once every 2-4 months. opi's and i have a love hate relationship.

you say its affecting your health to the point where you can see it in your face? how do you mean? you looking like a simpson all yellow?? or got the eyes happening?

[Conan Troutman]

forgive me for being blunt but "no shit". i mean, obviously, your here arent you. one would be hard struck to find a member who doesnt feel the same way you do or hasnt at some point in their career. youve done cold turkey before, you can do it again. you know how easy it is. you can do it hunab. we can all offer advice from our experiences but you are the one who can do it for yourself, you know you can, and you know what you need to do it. you know yourself better than anyone, get your comforts together, you wanna go fishin to detox then i suggest do it. sounds like a great idea actually, camping for detox. to avoid addiction and hardcore habituation i have to detox atleast 3 times a year, once every 2-4 months. opi's and i have a love hate relationship.

you say its affecting your health to the point where you can see it in your face? how do you mean? you looking like a simpson all yellow?? or got the eyes happening?

and when all else fails talk to you G.P...

[AndyAmine.]

IME opiates are a fair bit less damaging to the body and mind than MJ..

Hunab, if your feeling sick and that your physically going down hill you may want to look at what your taking along with the codeine, ibuprofen is REALLY bad for the stomach and liver! so is excessive use of paracetamol.

I would suggest going to the Dr and getting a WD pack, usually something like some diazepam, doloxene or pandeine forte (maybe not this one but it would at least be better to ween your self on than excess nurofen+) and if your lucky some catapress.

Plus some multi vitamins, some magnesium and maybe some Valerian/passion flower, plus some typrtophan and gabba probably couldn't hurt.

If that doesn't work maybe look into a 2 week subutex reduction program, I know it seems pretty full on but it is a good treatment.

In answer to one of your main questions, some blue lilly extract is very good but can be psychologically addictive in its self, anything can be for someone with an addictive personality.

In all honesty anything that can prevent you from taking any more ibuprofen is a very, very good thing, however only for the short term (if at all), because detox and rehab are where the next step lies and only you can do it, no one else and not for anyone else.

It really isn't a good idea to pass the buck and swap to something else, like people have said its really just prolonging the inevitable.. you have to admit you have an issue with drugs, seek treatment and counselling and change your life.

Its not something that stops a few months after your detox either, its a new way of life.. you become a 'dry drunk' (for lack of a better term) you aren't taking the substance/s but you are still an addict.

The most important thing here is to PLEASE stop taking large amounts of ibuprofen and or paracetamol, I cant tell you enough how bad it is for you, when I was in detox one time there was a guy in there who had a similar issue to yourself, he was addicted to panadeine and had serious liver damage for this, as a result he had really bad jaundice (yellow skin and eyes)

Unfortunately the next time I got into detox around 3 months later I found out he had died as a result.

This guy was reasonably normal otherwise, just a guy that started taking them for a toothache and then it got out of control, didn't realise how toxic too much ibu can be and ended up dying from liver failure because of it.

Its common for people who over use/abuse ibuprofen to get stomach ulcers and the stomach can effect how you feel in many ways as can the liver. In fact I believe in heavy use (like yours Hunab) it can perforate the entire GI tract!

There is an Australian nurofen+ support forum somewhere, I tried to find it for you but couldn't, however I did find this one.

http://www.codeinefree.com/

I hope it helps and your always more than welcome to send me a PM if you want talk privately about it all, its nice to be able to talk to someone that kind of understands what your going through.

EDIT:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/overcount/index.htm

http://www.codeinefree.me.uk/ (seems better than the US one)

Edited November 16, 2008 by AndyAmine.

[DreamingNagual]

Very Good Advice Andy!

[Siggor]

the few probs i encountered was depression and tryinng to fill that void, which then i started to take a supplement which consisted of 5-htp and a few othe choice chemcals with vitamin b's (will get the brand soon as i find it again) which seemed to work really well, got rid of the mood swings, but still had a lost feeling, but soon as i ran out i got back on the +, and expensive

also tried a hypnosis session with richard bandler file called all the way down, to recreate your drug of choice state, which worked but subtle, and didn't keep up with the sessions.

and finally sleep, the worst thing was sleep, very light and legs couldn't get comfortable, felt like i had to run, i tried valerian which worked for a couple hours, the also restavit, which seemed to work for a couple of days.

the thing that i found that worked the best was the supplement, cus i lasted quite awhile on it and my mood felt heaps better than any other time,

positive attitude, watch for the things you say before you go through DT, all the other time my g/f said i was going to get DT's real bad, i told her i wasn't and its not going to happen to me, and it didn't. or it didn't hit me that bad.

but all in all still am on it, am ready to move and looking at going back off of them.

so if anybody could help me with the sleep thing would be awesome.

and migraine headaches

cheers guys

supplement mentioned

Proxan

Hydroxytryptopham Complex

Contents: 30 capsules

Storage: Store in a cool, dry place (below 30° C)

Proxan is a nutritional formula specifically designed to restore healthy, normal neurotransmitter balance within the central nervous system (CNS). Each ingredient has been carefully selected for its beneficial effects on moods and mood regulation. For example, 5-Hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) and S-Adenosyl Methionine (SAMe) have unique properties that assist with the management of anxiety, irritability and mood dysregulation. While the B group vitamins, minerals and dl-Phenylalanine further enhance the capacity of this unique formula to promote healthy neurological function and support normal, healthy biosynthesis of neurotransmitters.

[Chiral]

Today is the first day of fully being off Codeine, yesterday I dosed a small amount for a headache via some cough syrup. Last nights sleep was appalling and my legs and head hurt today beyond comprehension. I spent most of the morning from 7am..cause no sleep... out in the garden trying desperately to keep my mind off it. So far so good. I feel quite okay but really don't want to do anything more than try and sleep and kill this horrible pain in my legs..its diabolical it really is. So I'll eat some lunch and then try and do some more but really want to sleep my head hurts like a mother f#$@*r..! I don't have any meds what so ever around me and am afraid even if I did I would definitely neck them all in one go right now. I'm kinda preparing myself for a healing brew in a couple of days so I'm watching my diet..as I look at a cask of Red wine in the fridge and grimace and have to say no. anyone wanna swap legs for a couple of weeks can PM me.

H.

[Conan Troutman]

Today is the first day of fully being off Codeine, yesterday I dosed a small amount for a headache via some cough syrup. Last nights sleep was appalling and my legs and head hurt today beyond comprehension. I spent most of the morning from 7am..cause no sleep... out in the garden trying desperately to keep my mind off it. So far so good. I feel quite okay but really don't want to do anything more than try and sleep and kill this horrible pain in my legs..its diabolical it really is. So I'll eat some lunch and then try and do some more but really want to sleep my head hurts like a mother f#$@*r..! I don't have any meds what so ever around me and am afraid even if I did I would definitely neck them all in one go right now. I'm kinda preparing myself for a healing brew in a couple of days so I'm watching my diet..as I look at a cask of Red wine in the fridge and grimace and have to say no. anyone wanna swap legs for a couple of weeks can PM me.

H.

First day is the worse...well the first 3!

You are certainly can be thankful it isnt a stronger opiate you are wd'n from, you should be pretty right by day 4-5, if you dont use ANY opiates...

taking something to sleep such as an OTC sleep aid Restavit (a sedating antihistamine) isnt cheating. And also something to help relax during the day...you also mite find ibuprofen will help with some of the aches...

[Undergrounder]

Good luck man you're already getting past the worst of it, Make it past tonight and you've broken its back.. Make sure to get out of the house, avoid any unconscious associations that might creep up, find some new scenery, do something different, keep yourself distracted..

[Amulte]

a "here here" to what CT said.

i find that after day three its all smooth sailing from there on too so hang in there.