Yeti101 Posted January 21, 2016 I'd still recommend using Bitcoin as one of the hedge bets you place. For now, it's best used mostly as a store of value rather than an everyday spending tool... Unless you're doing the whole remittance thing which it'll cut down a bit of the overhead for. I outlined in the thread a few years back ( and it's still true) that Bitcoin is still wayyy under it's potential market cap -- Being cheaper to use and faster to send value worldwide than institutions like western union and paypal (but perhaps not as ubiquitous) , without the possibility of the middle men freezing your account arbitrarily. It is however subject to more risk through price volatility ( with it behaving much like a stock -- Though it most certainly is not - - Really being more akin to gold and other natural resources that don't have a CEO or board of directors that have the final say what happens to its creation. Not an all your eggs in this basket kind of deal but certainty something to consider for your high risk high gain portfolio. I'd read this https://medium.com/@octskyward/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7#.4qflkijw4 before sinking too much cash into bitcoin - I mean I take most thing on the internet with a grain of salt - especially where money is concerned - but some of this does sound pretty bad. To get back OT, WTF is happening and what to do about it? Hard questions to answer. There is some seriousness unwinding of bad debt in China and elsewhere to be dealt with (debt fuels growth, which is required to service the previous round of debt). In some ways it would be better to get this over with so this de-leveraging doesn't coincide with the increasing unemployment caused by automation - the so-called 4th industrial revolution. And while I'd love to see land become more affordable, mass negative equity could fuck the banks sideways. Nor is having all my savings in cash stuffed in a mattress appealing - I wouldn't want people to know I had money in my home - especially if the economy has gone belly-up. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qwertyuiop Posted January 22, 2016 I'd take Hearn's exit writeup with a few barrels of salt tbh. His vision of what bitcoin should be is quite adverse to the rest of the community. Hypocritically stating the centralization of mining power in china being worrisome while championing centralization in much more rigid and unchangeable ways. Put tersly, he's a sell out, who's following the money with only self interest involved. Previous to his exit piece he's joined a financial conglomerate named R3 (A consortium of some 40+ banks and other financial institutions aiming to bastardize Bitcoin by using blockchain technology in a manner which the nodes are ONLY the financial institutions ( much the same as our current fiat systems are structured ) ) -- It's now in his (and his employers) interest to undermine Bitcoin ( cue his FUD spreading medium log). http://bravenewcoin.com/news/30-top-banks-and-mike-hearn-have-now-joined-r3-global-consortium/ 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted January 22, 2016 You might well be right - I don't know either way and am happy to defer to someone with more experience with bitcoin. Spreading your financial risk so that it take more than the collapse of one currency, or crypto-currency, is still probably a prudent move though. (Note, I don't want to turn this into a conversation just about bitcoin, just thought I'd mention something I'd read recently). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted January 22, 2016 I (still) wanna get physical, physical (precious metals) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2XB Posted January 22, 2016 I have a mate who has a safe full of silver, lol I thought it was all bought on paper, but he actually takes his ute to pick up silver And loads it into a safe.. .. I have been toying with the idea of a self managed super fund and buying precious metals, as commodities are obviously more valuable than money if currency collapses... too bad there are so many fees involved in doing this.. ... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strontium Dawg Posted January 22, 2016 Where's my cash at? I invested mine in glass. A glass jar to be more precise. I reckon if I emptied it out there might be $12 or so in there. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) I have a mate who has a safe full of silver, lol I thought it was all bought on paper, but he actually takes his ute to pick up silver And loads it into a safe.. .. I have been toying with the idea of a self managed super fund and buying precious metals, as commodities are obviously more valuable than money if currency collapses... too bad there are so many fees involved in doing this.. ... if you can't touch it you don't own it. another saying they have is that my lead takes your gold (or something like that, maybe snappier, but the implication being that your unprotected gold quickly becomes the property of someone else. .. as for paper gold, i've read that paper gold exceeds the total mass of gold that has ever been mined and hoarded by a factor of ten. it's a way to expose yourself to the price of gold eg sell your paper gold when it is profitable to do so. unfortunately it's impossible that every ounce of paper gold could be redeemed for something of value in the kind of situation the world is headed towards. --------- during the great depression money was scarce but people still knew how to survive without money, that is no longer true. we semi-agrarian types probably have better adapted households, skills and coping mechanisms than most other city-dweller demographics to make up for our lack of erm robust portfolios. i'm curious if anybody is accelerating their plans for self-sufficiency, cutting back on luxury expenditure.... Edited January 22, 2016 by ThunderIdeal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sallubrious Posted January 22, 2016 I believe paper gold traded exceeds real gold value by several thousand to one. There's many types of paper gold, there's unallocated gold, ETF's, gold leasing, gold futures, gold options etc etc. Most of the time when you think you are buying gold you are becoming a creditor for a financial institution. In the event of a financial collapse if the institution you purchased your paper gold through goes broke there's no chance to get anything back, as you hinted at with the comment about not owning it if you can't touch it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted January 22, 2016 I've never been into luxury expenditure - not like some people I know. And I'm definitely accelerating my plan to make my lifestyle more self-sufficient, if not actually agrarian. Depending who you are listening to, there isn't a portfolio robust enough to completely insulate your standard of living from what is coming. I've heard several people in the past few days - including Satyajit Das on RN this morning and this guy from the OECD - talk about the level of global debt. Basically, there's too much to ever pay back. The debt of the past 30 years has predominately gone into inflating the value of assets. No one is a rich as they think they are. If you hold significant assets, then their value may well be over-inflated. Bit of a bummer, but not catastrophic in an of itself. But if you borrowed to finance these assets, then that debt, which is someone else's asset, isn't worth as much either. You can never pay your debt, and whoever you owe that debt to can never collect that money, and now their ability to borrow is now toast, as is their ability to lend. Times that by a really big number, and throw in a few excitingly re-packaged financial instruments (less common now post-gfc, but you never know). Sally's comments regarding gold are an illustration of what has potentially happened across a very broad range of assets and commodities. Eventually people will notice - then it's just a matter of how disorderly the 'adjustment' or debt jubilee is. One day you are rich - look at all of that 'gold' you bought online just now. The next day, bam, you are a creditor holding debt that is worse than worthless and your money has evaporated - largely because, in some ways, it never really existed in the first place. Debt is central to modern economies, I'm not sure what things would be like without it. Predictions range between a mild but protracted economic stagnation to a full-blown chaotic-as-bugfuck interregnum. If things turned bad, I would prefer to be on an acreage with a long driveway and a decent swarm of mechatronic helpers. Suburbia has a nasty undercurrent in places. Poverty and inequality never made anywhere any nicer, but I grew up poor (cash-poor at least) in the country and I know how to deal with that. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J Smith Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) www.silverstackers.com Edited January 22, 2016 by J Smith 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sallubrious Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) There are options Yeti, just look at what went down in Iceland. They wrote off all foreign owned debt and just started again under state control - they cut the Rothschilds out of the loop and arrested the bastards. They went through a brief correction period of negative growth but the economy bounced back in quick time and returned to growth. Admittedly our exposure here is different and doesn't have the speculative interest that Iceland does, so the correction period will be much longer, but we have to get off this merry go round before it sinks us. The world is under a spell where foreign nationals issue currency backed by the debt of other (largely insolvent) currency. It's systematic madness. Putin has delivered a golden cross, now we just need the rest of the world to follow through and put the ball into the net. The Rothschilds now control the central banking infrastructure for almost every country on Earth and have a controlling interest in international markets, if they were cut out of the loop things would recover in 5 years or less and the world could flourish again. Sorry for the idiot analysis but it does make a good point Edited January 22, 2016 by Sallubrious 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sallubrious Posted January 24, 2016 List of central banks controlled by the Rothschild family January 2016. A few notable omissions and additions this year. Afghanistan: Bank of Afghanistan Albania: Bank of AlbaniaAlgeria: Bank of AlgeriaArgentina: Central Bank of ArgentinaArmenia: Central Bank of ArmeniaAruba: Central Bank of ArubaAustralia: Reserve Bank of AustraliaAustria: Austrian National BankAzerbaijan: Central Bank of Azerbaijan RepublicBahamas: Central Bank of The BahamasBahrain: Central Bank of BahrainBangladesh: Bangladesh BankBarbados: Central Bank of BarbadosBelarus: National Bank of the Republic of BelarusBelgium: National Bank of BelgiumBelize: Central Bank of BelizeBenin: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO)Bermuda: Bermuda Monetary AuthorityBhutan: Royal Monetary Authority of BhutanBolivia: Central Bank of BoliviaBosnia: Central Bank of Bosnia and HerzegovinaBotswana: Bank of BotswanaBrazil: Central Bank of BrazilBulgaria: Bulgarian National BankBurkina Faso: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO)Burundi: Bank of the Republic of BurundiCambodia: National Bank of CambodiaCameroon: Bank of Central African StatesCanada: Bank of Canada – Banque du CanadaCayman Islands: Cayman Islands Monetary AuthorityCentral African Republic: Bank of Central African StatesChad: Bank of Central African StatesChile: Central Bank of Chile China: The People’s Bank of China Colombia: Bank of the RepublicComoros: Central Bank of ComorosCongo: Bank of Central African StatesCosta Rica: Central Bank of Costa RicaCôte d’Ivoire: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO)Croatia: Croatian National BankCuba: Central Bank of CubaCyprus: Central Bank of CyprusCzech Republic: Czech National BankDenmark: National Bank of DenmarkDominican Republic: Central Bank of the Dominican RepublicEast Caribbean area: Eastern Caribbean Central BankEcuador: Central Bank of EcuadorEgypt: Central Bank of EgyptEl Salvador: Central Reserve Bank of El SalvadorEquatorial Guinea: Bank of Central African StatesEstonia: Bank of EstoniaEthiopia: National Bank of EthiopiaEuropean Union: European Central Bank Fiji: Reserve Bank of FijiFinland: Bank of FinlandFrance: Bank of FranceGabon: Bank of Central African StatesThe Gambia: Central Bank of The GambiaGeorgia: National Bank of GeorgiaGermany: Deutsche BundesbankGhana: Bank of GhanaGreece: Bank of GreeceGuatemala: Bank of Guatemala Guinea Bissau: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO) Guyana: Bank of GuyanaHaiti: Central Bank of HaitiHonduras: Central Bank of HondurasHong Kong: Hong Kong Monetary AuthorityHungary: Magyar Nemzeti BankIceland: Central Bank of IcelandIndia: Reserve Bank of IndiaIndonesia: Bank IndonesiaIran: The Central Bank of the Islamic Republic of Iran Iraq: Central Bank of Iraq Ireland: Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of IrelandIsrael: Bank of IsraelItaly: Bank of ItalyJamaica: Bank of JamaicaJapan: Bank of JapanJordan: Central Bank of JordanKazakhstan: National Bank of KazakhstanKenya: Central Bank of KenyaKorea: Bank of KoreaKuwait: Central Bank of KuwaitKyrgyzstan: National Bank of the Kyrgyz RepublicLatvia: Bank of LatviaLebanon: Central Bank of LebanonLesotho: Central Bank of Lesotho Libya: Central Bank of Libya Uruguay: Central Bank of UruguayLithuania: Bank of LithuaniaLuxembourg: Central Bank of LuxembourgMacao: Monetary Authority of MacaoMacedonia: National Bank of the Republic of MacedoniaMadagascar: Central Bank of MadagascarMalawi: Reserve Bank of MalawiMalaysia: Central Bank of MalaysiaMali: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO)Malta: Central Bank of MaltaMauritius: Bank of MauritiusMexico: Bank of MexicoMoldova: National Bank of MoldovaMongolia: Bank of MongoliaMontenegro: Central Bank of MontenegroMorocco: Bank of MoroccoMozambique: Bank of MozambiqueNamibia: Bank of NamibiaNepal: Central Bank of NepalNetherlands: Netherlands BankNetherlands Antilles: Bank of the Netherlands AntillesNew Zealand: Reserve Bank of New ZealandNicaragua: Central Bank of NicaraguaNiger: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO)Nigeria: Central Bank of NigeriaNorway: Central Bank of NorwayOman: Central Bank of OmanPakistan: State Bank of PakistanPapua New Guinea: Bank of Papua New GuineaParaguay: Central Bank of ParaguayPeru: Central Reserve Bank of PeruPhilip Pines: Bangko Sentral ng PilipinasPoland: National Bank of PolandPortugal: Bank of PortugalQatar: Qatar Central BankRomania: National Bank of RomaniaRussia: Central Bank of Russia Rwanda: National Bank of RwandaSan Marino: Central Bank of the Republic of San MarinoSamoa: Central Bank of SamoaSaudi Arabia: Saudi Arabian Monetary Agency Senegal: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO)Serbia: National Bank of SerbiaSeychelles: Central Bank of SeychellesSierra Leone: Bank of Sierra LeoneSingapore: Monetary Authority of SingaporeSlovakia: National Bank of SlovakiaSlovenia: Bank of SloveniaSolomon Islands: Central Bank of Solomon IslandsSouth Africa: South African Reserve BankSpain: Bank of SpainSri Lanka: Central Bank of Sri LankaSudan: Bank of SudanSurinam: Central Bank of SurinameSwaziland: The Central Bank of SwazilandSweden: Sveriges RiksbankSwitzerland: Swiss National Bank Tajikistan: National Bank of TajikistanTanzania: Bank of TanzaniaThailand: Bank of ThailandTogo: Central Bank of West African States (BCEAO)Tonga: National Reserve Bank of TongaTrinidad and Tobago: Central Bank of Trinidad and TobagoTunisia: Central Bank of TunisiaTurkey: Central Bank of the Republic of Turkey Uganda: Bank of UgandaUkraine: National Bank of UkraineUnited Arab Emirates: Central Bank of United Arab Emirates United Kingdom: Bank of England United States: Federal Reserve, Federal Reserve Bank of New York Vanuatu: Reserve Bank of VanuatuVenezuela: Central Bank of Venezuela Vietnam: The State Bank of VietnamYemen: Central Bank of YemenZambia: Bank of ZambiaZimbabwe: Reserve Bank of ZimbabweBanks owned or controlled by the RothschildsBank For International Settlements (BIS) “Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws” – Baron M.A. Rothschild "Let's let the market self regulate and when it goes cunt up (again) let the taxpayers foot the the bill again" - Sallubrious Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) While I maintain a respectful agnosticism regarding the Rothschilds and their activities, I do think that it is worth watching the actions of the ultra-rich at at times like this. (edit: gosh-darned auto-correct. I should know better) Edited January 25, 2016 by Yeti101 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tarenna Posted January 25, 2016 List of central banks controlled by the Rothschild family January 2016. A few notable omissions and additions this year. Australia: Reserve Bank of Australia Who suggested this and how is it the case? Can you please provide a source and further information to substantiate. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theuserformallyknownasd00d Posted January 25, 2016 This was a good read tarenna http://www.nationallibertyparty.com.au/faq/monetary-system/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sallubrious Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Who suggested this and how is it the case? Can you please provide a source and further information to substantiate. I wrote that in capitals in the hope someone would pick up on it and ask some questions. I've been trying to get clarification on that issue myself for years. To be totally honest Tarrena it's not a clear cut issue. On one hand we know that the RBA is controlled by the Commonwealth of Australia, so if we take that on face value it seems it's a wholly Australian controlled entity. Then from another perspective the Commonwealth of Australia is registered as corporation in the USA FOI requests from citizens in Australia asking the government about whether the corporation listed as the Commonwealth of Australia is the same organisation as the Commonwealth of Australia which is authorised by the Queen under the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution went unanswered and the question still begs. If it is not the same entity then there seems to be breaches of the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution. So really, it's not public knowledge and for some reason the government has suppressed the facts. Normally sensitve information in replies to FOI requests are blacked out, but relevant documents are supplied and further research can be carried out. In this case no relevant information was supplied. https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/is_the_commonwealth_of_australia A comment at the very bottom of that page seems to indicate the COA is registered as foreign government on the US securities and Echange Commission, but also leaves some doubt about the status of the registration on the business registry. There have been numerous other similar requests that have also been ignored, which is hard to understand, it's not a difficult question. So even if we accept that the RBA is owned by the commonwealth of Australia we have to look into who controls the commonwealth of Australia - that would appear be the Queen. So after that long winded reply, I have to admit I can't supply any proof just speculation and circumstantial observations. Edited January 25, 2016 by Sallubrious Share this post Link to post Share on other sites