Peppers

[Teotzlcoatl]

Man, I love peppers.

I'm growing some Capsicum chinense (Habanero strain) and Capiscum annuum (Cayenne strain).

I like removing all the seeds, washing and then half way drying them and putting them on crackers with some good cheese and maybe some pepperoni.

I also completely dry the skins and jar 'em.

I had a few questions-

Can Habanero and Cayenne be crossed?

What are some rare and interesting strains that I could grow? Is there anything hotter than Habanero?

Here's an interesting link about Peppers.

[Auxin]

'Caribbean Red' is hotter'n habs. Its a somewhat smaller red hab relative with a fruity bouquet.

'Red Savina' is hotter'n hab and allegedly often hotter'n Caribbean Red but it is an unstable blood line subject to variation.

'Chocolate Hab', a brown habanero, is reported to be hotter'n orange hab.

'Fatalii' is weaker'n hab but it deserves to be mentioned because its still very hot, yellow, 3" long, and has a real good powerful citrusy odor which seems to be uncommon in the megahots. You can really fuck people up too, most plain oatmeal and dry toast types think only red peppers are very hot but fatalii is like 2/3 hot as hab so you can watch them use way too much and have their face melt off

Fatalii was bred by repatriated slaves in the central african republic region from peppers they stuffed in their pockets before being freed in the caribbean and sent back to africa.

All of the above are capsicum chinense.

Now lemme see if I can find the Capsicum hybridity matrix...

Bingo [Link]

Crossing chinense with annuum is hit or miss, the more heavily domesticated they are the lower the chances but if you can get the cross to work and make F1 plants that bare viable seed you'll succeed from there on. I suggest using chinense as the female parent, or at least I always do because annuum tends to release pollen before the ferking flowers even open while chinense waits til after the flowers open which makes it much easier. After making a cross expect to require a absolute minimum of 6 generations to stabilize it into a new cultivar and when doing so try to get the colors of the various flower parts stabilized.. stigmas, styles, anthers, fillaments... the colors of those are used in identifying cultivars and having them stabilized shows professionalism. Also pay special attention to any constriction ring on the calyx, look close on chinense calyxs.. it looks like someone strangled it with a wire- this trait is used in the identification of species and Must be stabilized one way or another in any new cultivar or chillieheads will send you nasty letters and rotten jalapenos.

And heres just a few notes on the genetics:

Pepper orientation: Pendant- Dominant Upright- Recessive .. Mendelian

Fruit:

Yellow is fully recessive to red

Gold color is recessive to red

orange is recessive to orange-yellow

two independent, fully-recessive genes are necessary to achieve a green when ripe coloration in peppers. One is the cl gene, which retains chlorophyll ("prevents the complete degradation of chlorophyll") and the other is the y gene (y+="red pigment lycopene", y=yellow or orange).

Here's the down and dirty of the 4 combinations of these genes and their phenotypes (what you see):

Red mature fruit: y+/y+, cl+/cl+

Yellow mature fruit: y/y, cl+/cl+

Brown mature fruit: y+/y+, cl/cl

Green mature fruit: y/y, cl/cl

Marbled variegation in foliage is recessive

'Umbrella' plant form relys on three recessive genes

Capsaicin content - additive, dominance and dominance x dominance components found to be significant; however the magnitude of additive component was higher

Anthocyanin in plants, flowers, and fruits incompletely dominant. (A. in the style or filament can operate off seperate genes- D/R character of both traits unknown). There is an 'intensifier' gene, D/R character unknown

C. pubescens corolla anthocyanin produced by a single dominant gene

Easy pod/calyx seperation gene incompletely dominant.

pointed fruit apex not fully dominant to blunt

Pointed apex dominant over indented apex (single gene)

Non-indented calyx attachment dominant over indented calyx attachment (single gene)

Yellow corolla spots of C baccatum var. pendulum and C. praetermissum act as single gene dominant in crosses with other species.

The mode of seed color inheritance in Capsicum was studied via an interspecific hybridization between C. pubescens Ruiz and Pav. (black seed color) and C. eximium Hunz. (yellow seed color). Black seed color was dominant over yellow seed color. The F2 segregation pattern showed continuous variation. The generation means analysis indicated the presence of a significant effect of additive [d], dominance [h], and additive x additive interaction for seed color inheritance. The estimate for a minimum number of effective factors (genes) involved in seed color inheritance was approximately 3.

a single dominant gene, C, is required for pungent genotypes to produce capsaicinoids.

Crosses between the wild taxa C. eximium and C. cardenasii and the domesticate C. pubescens most often show hybrid pollen viability greater than 55%

The wild form of Capsicum baccatum exhibits a high crossability index with domesticated C. baccatum var. pendulum with the progeny typically exhibiting pollen viability in excess of 55 percent

[Teotzlcoatl]

Ahaha! Thank you Auxin! I was waiting for you!

How about Naga Jolokia (Naga Bhut)?

Are they worth the $35+ US dollors for seeds?

Naga Peppers?

Sounds interesting...

Also... are all Capsicum self-fertile? Meaning a single plants gererates its own fruit without the need of another plant??

~Teotzlcoatl~

P.S.- Your alittle over my head with some of this stuff Auxin, I really need to study up.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Teotz'

[Auxin]

Fuck sake, I wouldnt pay $35 for pepper seeds unless the tarahumara smoked them in order to see GOD

...and even then I'd try to get them in trade

Reimer sells 5 packs for $15, that at least is closer to realistic.

Reimer

As for the genetics stuff, yeah all the additive, codominant, etc. stuff can be intimidating. First read about the pea experiments of gregor mendel and mendelian genetics and learn to use the punnet square, that'll get you understanding how genetics works in simple cases.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Thanks Auxin!

I've heard of the pea experiments and know about the punnet square, but not much more than that...

I guess I've got some studying to do!!!

Could you suggest some really good sweet peppers? rare strains?

[Auxin]

Um, no

lol

I only ever grew hot spice ones, havent got much into 'food' gardening yet

[Garbage]

Pepper Joes has some good ones.

Albertos Locoto and 'Dedo de Mocha' Sweet Ají i have grwing .

The sweet Aji was grown outside in last years feeble English summer and only one plant managed a few insipid fruits.

It was overwintred but got off to a slow start.

Locoto peppers bear little resemblance to Rocoto although boh are classed as Pubescens.

Marbles and balloons may be good to grow,though they dont have quite the allure of the impracticable and inedible hotter peppers.

Really though the chile is your oyster.

Hot pepper by mistake this year was Ciliegia picante sold as 'sweet' but also known as Baccio de santana or satan's lips/kiss.

I grew Thai dragons and Bolivian rainforest in the past,these were good producers but a bit unexciting.

[Teotzlcoatl]

One more question...

When is the best time to harvest the pepper? I normally harvest when I see it begin to turn yellow (or red), and then allow it to finish changing color out on the counter, then eat.

Is it best to wait until they completely change color on the stalk?

What the best time/way to harvest peppers?

[Garbage]

As soon as they turn hot and no sooner.

Pubescens turns a delightfully chocolate brown as a transition from green to red,i always let them turn red in the past but i think i will try one at the brown stage.

Only a few days of waiting now...

[Teotzlcoatl]

As soon as they turn hot and no sooner.

Meaning as soon as they turn red? Completely red (or yellow-oragne)?

[Auxin]

I usually wait until they turn their final color and grab em before they get soft, I think that gives the best balance between seed viability, flavor, and storage qualities. But if your harvesting a months supply all at once getting some a bit on the unripe side might not be a bad thing.

[Garbage]

I tried eating them at various sizes when green,they dont tast too good and were not at all hot.

I will try a few larger green ones to see if the flavour improves before they get hot.

I never picked them green for ripening before,it seemed kinda rude to take them before the plant had finished preparing them for eating.

[Garbage]

More realistic.

http://www.chileseeds.co.uk/naga_morich.htm

[Yeti101]

Give Scotch Bonnet Chocolate a go if you haven't already. I don't think it is the hottest strain out there, but it is far and away the hottest thing I've ever grown.

Nice idea with the crosses though. Some people might like some of the chinense flavour without the usual heat.

[Auxin]

Trinidad perfume is a yellow chinense with a citrusy bouquet and vegetabley flavor but low heat, I even had pods that I had to concentrate to perceive the heat.

Atarodo is a small (~2 cm) red habaneroid chinense with a nice fruity bouquet and minimal heat.

There are allegedly true sweet peppers in C. chinense now but I havent tried them yet.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Thanks so much for the info Auxin!

Very helpful!

I would have thanked you sooner, but I gave myself (and y'all) a break from posting.

[Teotzlcoatl]

One of my organic Haberanos!

I seriously think I might be addicted! Those little guys are sooo good! I make REAL Haberano Nachos!

Edited August 19, 2008 by Teotz'

[planthelper]

nice pic there teotz, makes my eyes water just to look at it.

what i like the most with chillies, is the fact that they are perenial, even in very cold climats one can prune them back and overwinter them cold and even without much light.

and nothing beats the feeling of seeing your chillies comming back into life after a winter break.

[Teotzlcoatl]

How would you over winter them?

Leave them outdoors?

It never gets below 10'F or -12'C here.

I was thinkin' about diggin' him up and potting him for the winter, then pruning it just before spring.

[misteek]

and nothing beats the feeling of seeing your chillies comming back into life after a winter break.

are you serious? my plants are yet to stop fruiting even though it's winter!

and yes teotz thats what i'd be doing. your climate is a tad colder than mine

Edited August 19, 2008 by misteek

[Teotzlcoatl]

Alright sounds good!

Would anybody esle do it differently?

[MrPotato]

I used to get bird peppers from Redwood City seed company in California. These are the wild ancestral form of hot peppers. According to Redwood's website "There have been many erroneous claims that Habanero is the world's hottest pepper, but that title actually belongs to the Bird Peppers, the wild forms of Capsicum annuum."

They still sell them on their website at Link Here's some more info from their website:

"There are dozens of varieties of Bird Peppers knwon throughout the world.

The two best known Bird Pepper varieties in the United States are:

TEPIN= Chiltecpin, Chiltepin, Chile mosquito, Chile de pajaro, Chile silvestre or Tecpintle.

The world's hottest pepper, collected from wild stands that grow in the mountains of northern Mexico and southern Arizona. Pods are round, 1/4" across, turns red when ripe. One ounce of this dried pepper with seeds removed will produce a detectable hotness in 30,000-50,000 ounces (over 300 gallons) of salsa!

PEQUIN=Chilipiquin (Mexico), Turkey Pepper (Texas), Grove Pepper (in orange groves, Southern Florida), and Pring-kee-new [Rat-turd pepper] (Thailand). Pods oval, less than 1" long with the smallest pods being the hottest. Grows wild in Texas, Florida, and south throughout the Americas.

An interesting story about the bird peppers:

Birds cannot taste the hotness in peppers and the fruit of the bird peppers are so small that they are eaten whole. The bird gizzards break up the pods and seeds pass through undigested and surrounded by nice nitrogenous fertilizer. Mammals, on the other hand, are discouraged by the extreme hotness of the bird peppers. In Texas, where they call them Turkey Pepper, that the wild birds intentionally eat a lot of peppers, which then flavors their flesh and makes the turkeys distasteful to carnivores. "

Edited January 29, 2009 by MrPotato

[Teotzlcoatl]

So I think I'm going to dig my big Haberano plant up out of the ground, put it into a pot, add some soil and then put it indoors for the winter. It will be under some small lights. Should I clip it back or do anything? Any tips? Am I doing the right thing?

[Auxin]

A significant amount of the root system will be damaged or removed, the rest will be disturbed, so yes cut back the aerial portions. A plants root system and aerial portions should be kept in balance, thats why root pruning is essential in bonsai.

Make sure at least 1/3 of the lights are plant lights. Some stores will rip you off so if the price seems unreasonable check someplace else before buying.

[Garbage]

Study the art of Yamadori and apply your findings to the chile,a few articles online.