eGay Vendor Selling Wild Endangered Cacti

[Teotzlcoatl]

Did you know that some fuckers on eGay are selling WILD COLLECTED Ariocarpus cacti!!!

I informed the eGay staff (they didn't do shit)...

And I talked to the bastards who are collecting/selling them, they just said "I'm not the only one doing it!"

I donno what to do... but it deeply troubles me.... I equated it to the killing of a Rhino to sell it's horn... but they just didn't get it... or just don't care...

Edited October 6, 2008 by Teotz'

[Auxin]

If dudes selling it over international borders through ebay its almost a certainty that hes in violation of international treaties on threatened species cause all Ariocarpus spp. are CITES appendix I. If he is not selling internationally but is selling it within the US and the location he wild harvested corresponds to federal land thats in violation of ebays "Stolen Property and Property with Removed Serial Numbers" rules because its illegal to take plants from federal land. If he harvested from his land, or the land of someone who gave permission... then theres fuck all that can be done. None are listed as endangered or threatened species (thanks to bush) and even if they were that would only put them at odds with ebay rules. According to US law its 100% legal to kill endangered species provided that you have property rights over it. Farms, race tracks, and even parking lots are routinely knowingly built on sites that, until construction began, housed endangered species. I assume the law is equally non-caring if the species are sold rather than bulldozed to make room for SUV's behind a walmart.

Edit: It should be noted that in some cases wild harvesting is a very good thing. I've come across several people who, upon hearing that a streach of land was going to be 'developed', payed the owner a handful of money to go in and harvest all the threatened and endangered species they could find before they were killed... it saves the plants lives and perpetuates their genetics cause many collectors plant or trade seed. So its not Always bad

I also knew a girl whos neighbor routinely went out with a jug of Napalm and burned all peyote cacti he could find on his property to "keep the fucking hippies out". I always hoped that someone snuck in and saved some of those poor plants before he burned them all.

Edited July 6, 2008 by Auxin

[Teotzlcoatl]

I don't know if they ship outside the U.S. or not...

But just go on eGay and search "ariocarpus" and LOOK at ALL the WILD collected plants!!! Some of them you can just TELL that they are collected from the WILD!!!

If he harvested from his land, or the land of someone who gave permission... then theres fuck all that can be done. None are listed as endangered or threatened species (thanks to bush) and even if they were that would only put them at odds with ebay rules. According to US law its 100% legal to kill endangered species provided that you have property rights over it. Farms, race tracks, and even parking lots are routinely knowingly built on sites that, until construction began, housed endangered species. I assume the law is equally non-caring if the species are sold rather than bulldozed to make room for SUV's behind a walmart.

Edit: It should be noted that in some cases wild harvesting is a very good thing. I've come across several people who, upon hearing that a streach of land was going to be 'developed', payed the owner a handful of money to go in and harvest all the threatened and endangered species they could find before they were killed... it saves the plants lives and perpetuates their genetics cause many collectors plant or trade seed. So its not Always bad

I also knew a girl whos neighbor routinely went out with a jug of Napalm and burned all peyote cacti he could find on his property to "keep the fucking hippies out". I always hoped that someone snuck in and saved some of those poor plants before he burned them all.

Now I'm depressed again, goddamn... I'm gonna go get another beer... How can people be so stupid?

Edited July 6, 2008 by Teotz'

[Auxin]

You cant always tell by looking, some of those that look 40 years old were grafted on trichs, grown for a few years, and then had the trich cut short and planted so they look like theres no graft.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Look!!!

My bet is that big dude is WILD COLLECTED!!!

[hela]

I dunno bout that big one Teotz', it looks like that big one has been in prime growing conditions (lots of water, well taken care of) for some time.

I politely disagree with you about that particular plant being harvested from the wild.

I donno what to do... but it deeply troubles me.... I equated it to the killing of a Rhino to sell it's horn... but they just didn't get it... or just don't care...

Poachers do suck, and that is a problem. But do you think that most people who are going out and taking wild cacti are really killing off wild populations so as to

endanger the survival of these cacti? Maybe in some areas that are easily accessable to people, but I can assure you that there are wild populations out there that haven't

been seen by people for years and years.

I agree with you that some people do not get it or do not care but don't worry yourself about them so much. Nature is a vast and great place. People can really only

mess things up for themselves, nature on the other hand will always recover.

[Teotzlcoatl]

But do you think that most people who are going out and taking wild cacti are really killing off wild populations so as to endanger the survival of these cacti?

Yes.

I do.

THE MOTHER FUCKERS!!!

So I send these bastards an inquery about the cactus acting like an interested customer-

My 1st message-

Hey, that's a nice Ariocarpus! Is it bigger thank 3 inchs??? I might be interested...

Their 1st response-

The plant is not bigger then 3" i have more order they have not come in maybe i will have larger one then thank you

My 2nd message-

Well this one looks nice. I'll keep bidding. Is it wild collected? It's a very nice specimen!!

Here's what they said-

yes it is naoma

BASTARDS! I told you it was wild collected!!!!

There are a number of sellers on ebay who are based out of Covington, OK, United States who are selling wild collected cacti.

These eGay sellers include-

cactusman8747

midwestcactus

sticky1940

Please inform as many people as you possibly can on as many forums as possible.

Does anybody know what to do about these bastards? The eGay staff has been contacted multiply times and does not care!!!

Edited October 6, 2008 by Teotz'

[Teotzlcoatl]

Another Article

[El Presidente Hillbillios]

Do you have a department of environment or conservation you can inform?

I'm sure they would check out if these guys are growing or stealing..

Poaching is wrong especially when these things take so long to grow.

[Teotzlcoatl]

I don't know I guess I need to check that out.

If anybody can help me out, let me know.

Report wildlife violations anonymously to Operation Game Thief at 1-800-522-8039 based in OK, U.S.A.

I called this place a couple of times, no answer tonight, I'll try again tommorow, y'all feel free to call and help me out.

Is there any other office or something I should call? I know most of y'all live in Oz, but theres a few American members here.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Teotz'

[El Presidente Hillbillios]

It looks like you have a department called fish and wildlife that cover that kind of stuff. i only had a quick look but they have a pretty good web site.

if you think these vendors are irresponsebly collecting wild plants, I think you should inform fish and wildlife. i assume the department would then asses if they re obtaining these plants legaly or not.

Good luck, they shoudn't get away with it, it's so wrong

Edited October 8, 2008 by Hillbilly farm boy

[PD.]

I dont think any authorities would take any action teotz especially if the plants are wild collected on private land, i would like to be wrong though.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Still no luck getting these assholes to stop...

[Illustro]

Try this:

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/warden/

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/n...gion_map_se.pdf

Good luck man.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Thank you very much!

I tried contacting somebody before but had no luck!

[incognito]

great work teotz.

i agree that the poaching of endangered cacti is akin to the sale of endangered animal products!

keep fighting the good fight man. kudos to you!

your heart is definately in the right place mate.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Haha, thanks Incognito!

[Auxin]

Not all wild harvested cacti are harvested immorally. For instance when a housing development is about to be built people sometimes get permission to rescue some cacti that would be killed in the process. Sometimes they donate some to uni or the USDA but sell others to pay for the rescue work. Cacti are routinely wiped out for little reason and it doesnt hurt to save them. I used to know this girl in texas, her neighbor would go out every year and wander around his ranch pouring diesel fuel on any Lophs or Loph-like cacti (read critically endangered Astrophytums et al.) and setting them ablaze because he thought they attracted hippies and he "didnt want any fucking hippies around" If I had been within 200 miles you can bet your ass I would have stole a few cacti before they got burnt

In the US there is no law whatsoever against building parking lots over, or burning, endangered species unless they are on government land.

[Teotzlcoatl]

I would beat the shit out of that guy if I ever met him.... I might even pour gas all over him and set him on fire, but probably not.

[G*P]

Its really cool to be fighting the fight for planet Earth.

What if awareness through commercial product, and wild harvesting might effectively re-establish urban populations..

spreading the desert through the city.

Does it only happen indoors?

Can it..

happen everywhere

that ultimate survival

reshifts balance and

Mother repopulates the

concrete

?

[Teotzlcoatl]

It still hasn't stopped

Tons of wild collected Ariocarpus are still being sold on ebay for insane prices!

It's terrible!

[Auxin]

What makes you think all the ebay cacti are illegally wild collected? They pretty much all look captive grown to me, it doesnt take a century to grow a 4" Ario. As for the 'insane' price, you go ahead and spend 6 or 12 years growing a plant and see if you want to sell it for $15

You know, Teotz, you are the source of most your own suffering... just fucking chill, its better for the cardiovascular system

[Teotzlcoatl]

The vendor explicitly told me himself that they were wild collected when I acted like an interested customer.

That is how I know Auxin.

He even admitted that he had already dug up and entire population in one area and had to move on to another spot because he had removed all the cacti in that area.

[paradox]

The vendor explicitly told me himself that they were wild collected when I acted like an interested customer.

That is how I know Auxin.

He even admitted that he had already dug up and entire population in one area and had to move on to another spot because he had removed all the cacti in that area.

if thats true, can you please post your correspondence with him...

[Teotzlcoatl]

That IS true.

Look at when this thread was started.... a looong time ago... I didn't save the conversation, sorry.

I'd be glad to go on Ebay, get his name for you and you can PM him and ask him.

Edited November 20, 2009 by Teotzlcoatl