Teotzlcoatl Posted June 24, 2008 (edited) I was thinking about breeding "super" strains of Caapi, Psychotria, Trichocereus cactus. I'd like obtain a strain of B. Caapi which contains little or no harmaline/harmala and high amounts of THH. A Psychotria plants with high levels of DMT (Verified by testing) I believe some of the Psychotria plants in the community contain little DMT, if any. A thick, blue Trichocereus with a high mescaline content, completely lacking almost all trace chemicals. I just want to put some potent clones out there, and no, I don't think it's wrong or evil or disrespect or w/e to breed for potency. I think the following cultivators should be found/breed/created- B. Caapi high in THH ~ "Spirit Caapi" B. Caapi with a balance of compunds ~ "MAOI Caapi" True type Psychotria viridis with high levels of nothing but pure DMT with no other chemicals present. A very potent Trichocereus peruvianus that grows very thick and very fast and lacks other compounds besides mescaline. A Trichocereus bridesii which closely mimics Lophophora-intoxication. Lophophora williamsii with at least an 8% mescaline content. (Could possible create two or even three cultivators- one high in mescaline but devoid of other compounds, one with a balance, and possibly one without mescaline that contains the other intoxicating Lophophora-compounds) Super cultivators of Ipomoea violacea ~ “Tlitliltzin”, Rivea corymbosa ~ “Ololiuqui” and Argyreia nervosa ~ “Woodrose” which contain high levels of the good compounds and low levels of the bad ones. Super strains of Saliva, etc. Edited November 14, 2008 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted June 24, 2008 Go for it. Growing different clones and assessing for certain traits has been done for millenia. Thats why apples taste good from a shop, but a seed-grown tree of unknown genetics often tastes like rubbish. Hell, it's the way that I came across my verigated loph clone from a bunch of average seeds (that and dumb luck!) I dont think anyone would try to argue that breeding for certain traits is somehow evil or disrespectful. I think that careless cultivation with no respect for the plants only to chop them up and chow them down is much worse. Mind you, I often dont care what sort of history my vegetables have before I cook them for dinner, so I guess that is a bit hypocritical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 24, 2008 Growing different clones and assessing for certain traits has been done for millenia. Excatly! We have various "super" strains of corn and rice and such... Why not Caapi and Trichocereus?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted June 24, 2008 This already occurs? Teotz, how do you propose to differentiate high potency specimens from low potency specimens over say, 100 (an extremely low number in selection breeding) genetic individuals? Are you going to grow them for 3 years and bioassay them one by one? Do you have an actual plan/scheme here? Or is this just another pipe dream with no tangible results that we are expected to humour? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted June 24, 2008 Trich: Eileen, Lumberjactus, etc, etc. I think you'll find that people have been doing this already for some time. I havent heard of people doing it with other entheos, but I'm sure it wouldnt be a completely new thing. I think the main reason why there arent more is because the groups that use them are very small populations that are already satisfied with what is found in the world around them. Why fix what aint broke? I say because you can improve on it! Also, another big factor would be time, financial and other similar constraints. A lot of people just dont have time to devote to a project such as this, aside from their spare time. Quite a bit can be achieved in that window though, which I would be guessing is how we have come across strong trichs such as eileen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 24, 2008 (edited) Ya. Edited November 13, 2008 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MindExpansion Posted June 24, 2008 You could buy a tandom mass spectrometer or HPLC lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moses Posted June 24, 2008 Trich: Lumberjactus excuse my ignorance Ace but what is lumberjactus i dont recall hearing that name? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted June 24, 2008 An american/euro bridgesii (or possibly some other trich) strain I believe. There is a lot of info on the nook and other similar sites about the clone. I think it is mostly well known for its potency, but possibly other factors like growth rates. Sorry, cant be of more use as I dont know a lot about it myself Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted June 24, 2008 Thats the one I meant - cheers Sina. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted June 24, 2008 yep sounds like a pipe dream to me, because i guess you don't have most of the tools required. but sure it would be a very good thing to do! echinopsis pachanoi take around 15 years to flower from seed, so it might take a while. banisteriopsis, doesn't seem to flower at all in cultivation, only few people have seen her in flower. psychotria is probably the easy one, flowering after just a few years in cultivation. anyway, the good thing is that all this genetics would come stable, meaning they are all inbreeds. but even if they would not be stabilised before breeding commences, it would not matter much because, if you create something extrodinary, you would propagate this result asexually anyway. but you certainly would need a lot of space and patience, preferable a big property somewhere in tropical south america. but as discussed in an other thread you could aswell try to create mutants, good luck! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
~shameless~ Posted June 24, 2008 (edited) Also consider breeding/hybridising for vigor, disease resistance, and speedy growth - a super quick growing montrose, or pachs that seem to be more resilient to black baterial spotting- Edited June 24, 2008 by GREEN HOUSE AKA spice1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 24, 2008 Also consider breeding/hybridising for vigor, disease resistance, and speedy growth Yes actually.... I want a super-cold hardy Caapi plant with a decent chemical make-up, a super fast growing cold hardy trichocereus that likes high amounts of water (For Outdoor planting) and I'd also like salvia and kratom plants suited for low-humidty, low-light, and room temperature, a house-plant strain basically. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted June 24, 2008 Teotz, in 7 days Salvia divinorum plant, herb, and extract will be schedule 1 illegal drugs in your state- you might want to rethink that one. If you want to produced a improved strain or clonal line of something try Calea zacatechichi. Almost every plant grown from seed seems to produce different qualities. Just buy some herb, pluck out the seed, grow them, select the 3 best to either clone or crossbreed for another generation of babies. Shouldnt be hard to find a good clonal line with Calea. Calea herb I bought from torsten had viable seed in.. I assume any good american dealers would be similar. As for Psychotria spp. you'd be doing the world favor enough by getting genuine P. viridis, Confirming that it is genuine P. viridis, and then giving away/trading clones. Most "Psychotria viridis" plants in the states are P. carthaginensis or P. alba. I had to get my viridis babies from a friend in Oz (thanks again mate ) cause they seem to be the only ones that are beginning to sift all the Psychotrias out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 24, 2008 (edited) Damn. Edited November 13, 2008 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted June 24, 2008 (edited) Edit: I'm not awake enough to distinguish letters from other letters and hence am misreading almost everything this morning. Edited June 25, 2008 by Yeti101 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted June 25, 2008 N.C. made salvia illegal?!?! The bastards! My bad, I could have SWORN you were a floridian I retract my statement. And I guess I can stop blaming you for the bush presidency Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pisgah Posted June 25, 2008 REALLY?!YOU GOTTA BEING KIDDING ME!? N.C. made salvia illegal?!?! The bastards! This is funny. Yesterday, Teotz's Nook sock claimed to be a guy named George from South Africa. Now he's back to living in North Carolina... He must have a super charged private jet! And several homes in sundry and varied countries! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) So Salvia will be illegal where Teotz' is ? That would explain the petition on eDot - they left it a bit late though if it the bill has already passed. Edited June 26, 2008 by Yeti101 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted June 25, 2008 I didnt say it was illegal in NC, or didnt mean too.. I thought he was in florida His climate and location bar is almost as vague as mine so I forgot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 26, 2008 (edited) Shit I can't believe my home state of Florida made Saliva illegal! I might have to mooove! Edited November 13, 2008 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shruman Posted June 27, 2008 HAHAHA, u crack me up Teotz/Zaorr/George. October hey, I do'nt think I'll ever have to put up with u at the Nook again. Thank Fuck. Whats with this shit "(Will y'all edit all the stuff that eludes to my locations, please?)" u told them where u were. u posted ur adress & telephone number at shroomery like a moron. Then u done something similiar at edot & tried to get people booted for quoting u as to ur location & got booted urself cause of it & now ur trying to pull this shit here?, One peculiar chestnut. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted June 27, 2008 OK, so I feel like a bit of a tool for editing as Teotz' requested, but it seemed the polite thing to do. That said, if people want to figure out where you are, they are going to do that no matter what is said in posts about your location. Surely our mention of the state you live in (or not ) didn't cause some spook somewhere to cream his/her pants and the black helicopters are not circling above your abode, or at least I hope they're not. Taking the piss (in a good natured way I promise) aside, I wonder what the upper limit of % alkaloid/terpenoid-goodness yield is in these plants. It could be that what we have now is as strong as it gets, even with artificially selective breeding. Alternatively it could be like other crops where bigger, sweeter, more potent etc plants can be produced in just a few generations. But even if you can't breed a more chemically potent Salvia div or P.viridis, producing strains of these that thrive in cooler, less humid environments would be a good thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted June 27, 2008 (edited) Alternatively it could be like other crops where bigger, sweeter, more potent etc plants can be produced in just a few generations. But even if you can't breed a more chemically potent Salvia div or P.viridis, producing strains of these that thrive in cooler, less humid environments would be a good thing. Thanks for your input! Edited November 13, 2008 by Teotz' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
