Qld drug act outlaws all plants that contain a scheduled drug

[apothecary]

Don't fret Darklight I have a lot of respect for Vert and his words and despite our frequent debating, I have no desire to see it degenerate.

[chilli]

Maybe that's the problem. The people talking about the fighting and the resisting are the ones interested in intepreting internet posts, those doing the fighting and resisting, they keep their mouths shut smile and nod while people make assumptions about their actions.

Did I just step into the fucking twilight zone again? Sina, you are the only one I can see who is making assumptions about people's actions when away from these boards, like in this exact quote for example... no one cast doubt on your activism, you brought all that up yourself! If you consider interpreting internet posts to be somehow worthless or beneath you, maybe it would be easier for you if you just scoot out of this uh... how can I put this delicately? internet discussion forum?

I'm sure most people who frequent these sorts of forums have had some kind of brush with the law, and many of us have probably been in a lot of hairy situations, involved in activism, been to jail etc... but when did this become a discussion about who has the meanest street cred? Still, I have to agree with you Sina, that there is a certain misguided idealism that results in a dangerous nonchalance amongst those who have not been actively oppressed by unjust laws... I just don't think many of those people frequent SAB.

I knew this old guy who used to get all his junk mail, catalogues, glossy brochures etc, pack them into the various postage paid envelopes he collected and indiscriminately send them to Telecom, his power company, I think even charities... what a hilarious old bastard he was... but he's dead now.

[Vertmorpheus]

Long post. Like it or leave it.

Yeah wouldnt sweat it DL, we're all big people round here. Well, mostly. Calling someone thick one minute but claiming to respect em the next, strikes me as a bit daft,really... but it takes all kinds dunnit. People arent so good at being nasty, I find. Well they can be, but they dont like to admit it to emselves and certainly NOT to others, esp where it would fuck with their laid back plant loving persona. For the record, you can think I'm a bit of an idiot and I'll still send you a cut of any potential freaks from the colch project, nevermind about that, and when I find those obtusi seeds, you can still have some. I'm not a dog, even if I do hear the odd scratch or whine around these parts... Just don't insult my intellect by insulting my intellect and then attempting to file it under "respectful debate". Because it wasn't. Patronising would be kinda close, but then you lack that real fatherly ability to knacker someone, so its not very convincing. Sounds like words from someones bedroom telling me how to run my own backyard, to be honest. Some adultescent (albeit a very bright one) trying out at being The Man.

Telling other adults what they "dont realise until...". You arent any good at it, it doesn't suit ya, to be honest, you really do need to practice on your own offspring first or it just lacks conviction. Certainly doesn't reek of a hardcore criminal background, Sina, to be honest... or you'd know that being on first name basis with all my local coppers DOES help...that knowing someone in the very section of the very building to which any possible illegal plants would go to for analysis, and that someone owing me a few favours, DOES help. Woops, decimal point just jumped several places to the left. I'll be fucked.Ah no and they bodged the F number as well, what a pity. Or knowing the right clerk in the right Court in the right city that I know can waylay certain documents almost indefinitely, does indeed help, if I need it to. But I don't, and won't. Which must shit some readers to tears, that potential going unused. I wouldnt leap out of a plane just cos I owned a parachute, though. My most loved uncle being on good terms with half the magistrates in the country due to the boys that that ensues from being an IR Courts judge helps too... Buy that kinda service with your commonwealth travel charge card, why dont ya.Oh, you can't. Must be terrible. yknow what helps most though? All my neighbours love us rather than thinking of us as the dodgy drug house fulla students and dole bludgers and tryhard drug geeks who think a few lophs puts you in the same league as the Viet Fucking Cong or La Cosa Nostra. We keep our roses trimmed, the lawn down, ourselves neat and clean and polite, the music down, do the local community thing, well, that and not having much of anything illegal around. Certainly no back up info, no books, no print outs, no glassware, no reagents (no, got some vinegar) no cool druggy posters shirs or movies. A pedro in a pot, as it came from bunnings (still has the barcodes... handy eh?). Nothing to prove intent to consume or produce ANYTHING, save for membership here... but that doesnt get me into any kind of category that being hort qual'd doesn't already, so it bothers me none. And my ready access to first class legal rep, should I need it, which I never will. If they're virulent enoug hto be lookin on here , I'm being fitted up for something as it is. And that won't happen, for some other reasons I won't go into. Lucky me. Is any of this getting thru at all? I'm not you. I am me. I can do what I can do, and I know well what that is. So apply your guidelines to yourself and I'll take care of myself, eh?

Or just assume we all have basically the same lifestyle ie paranoid whitebread who thinks a plant collection defines your personality and social standing and that a forum is synonymous with a community and that somehow, membership of this "community" are targeted... what, the cops tell the neighbours to report the person they know already is a Sabster due to their t shirt, sticker, what have you? ooo k then. Oh, you mean by the time theyre in your house and looking over the comp, by which time most ppl are moderately fucked anyway? Ohhh right.

Got any other bright ideas? Cos all those sucked the monkey, thats for sure. It's just plants, when alls said n done. And what I said about being big about being done, is entirely in line with what you said about worst case scenario and making your own decision, etc. Jesus christ on a barbed wire unicycle....

I had a much more longarsed (even for me) post dealing with every last point... should I say every last false assumption... but decided against it.. largely pointless no pun intended. They'd either be assumed about further, dubiously extrapolated... or just blatantly misconstrued. Can't be arsed getting into the nitty gritty with anyone taht seems to think that you can't take someone seriously as a driver because they've yet to be stupid enough or unfortunate enough to get into an accident of their own creation... or that someone who doesnt live with constant daily low grade phobia about it happening again has never been in a crash, either. Couldnt resist the following odds n sods though, purely for fairness' sake.

I'm not sure how being done for anything, let alone something as petty as a few plants or some chemicals, easily concealed shit by any stretch of the imagination, etc, gives one extra credit or credibility? Is stupidity and poor management of your life and an inability to adhere to even the most basic of criminal principles often call for extra points down that way? Might explain a few things bout how the nation is being run, thats for sure. What do you get for self immolation, a gold fuckin watch? Are you saying that I can't appreciate the usefulness of safety guards on bandsaws cos I'm yet to lose an arm, or at least might have, but don't waste time bragging about it as if running a clumsy fucker running a loose game is some kind of redeeming feature? If you got done, youre either deeply unlucky, or deeply stupid. Blunt but true, its one or the other. In which case, all the words in the world didnt help your luck, and all the luck in the world didn't help with the words... Round here its seen as something of a sign of being a dick, or just deeply, deeply unlucky... but mainly just being a bit of a fool, mostly. Running a loose ship with even looser lips. Youre welcome to suggest that that is in fact NOT how the majority of people with any dubious hobbies at all around here regard people. what the fuck would I know.

have I been in trouble? Yes. Plant related? Yes. Recently? No. Seriously, No, thanks mainly to my "immaterial attitude and opinions",. But no wait, couldn't be, you said they "won't matter" and "until I understand" and whatever other patronising one-too-many-cypress hill albums as a kid-crap you prattled on with back there. Criminal conviction? No.... hence why I've worked in some serious background check kinda positions...and ya know what? yknow the real fucker in all that? My lack of conviction was entirely because of my attitude, AND mates had much benefit from the courtroom scenario you mocked so soundly up there...my opinion... my viewing people as people, and refusing to get into "us" and "them" .My complete lack of "the Fear" when the door starts being thumped on. yep, the attitudes that don't "matter". Probably easier just to marginalise myself as much as possible,eh? But yeah, just assume... might be even quicker to make up a big sign to wear on your head that says "I'm the only real person here, the only one that knows about this shit, and a universal authority on anything vaguely related ", though. You want to give the impression your some herbal kingpin, feel free. I'm not. I have more sense, and enjoy my freedoms. I'd rather be known for my volunteer work, my raising a frightfully bright daughter, my weird blend of pragmatism and weirdness, running a wee and entirely legit business from home whilst being a stay at home dad, etc. Anyone with some dirt can grow a few plants, anyone with seeds can share em, anyone with free time or motivation can do some research, share some factoids...Doesn't define who they are, just what they HAVE. Should we brag about fastest net connections next? Newest games consoles? Biggest TV? Fastest car? Fuck that. You'd win, no worries. Mildly broke around here.

Further, there's a slight dif between a Commonwealth charge card courtesy of insert far flung educational institution here, while studying the rest of the time ... and having worked full time at/still having contacts at the John Tonge Centre,including the Tox and Forensic Path/Biol sections... QHSS, QPS, Dept of Justice and the Att. General, engaged for a time to a Magistrates Court clerk, etc, lived in QLD most of my life, had dealings with all walks of life and in general would have a hard time saying "most people I know live off selling drugs or being on the dole"... cmon matie, its like saying you were a baker once so you know all about wheat production in Spain, or something. But then, I never claim to be anything other than lil old me, and the bits of the planet I can see with the naked eye. I certainly don't have it in my head I'm some kind of Google Guevara ;) Or an expert on local culture from parts of the world I'm not from. If sommeone was from.. I dunno... Laos...would you take it on yourself to tell em their perception of local tone and climate was entirely incorrect, their recollection of dealings with local cops either incorrect or just make believe...because you read a bit of stuff on the laotian legal system? I wouldnt. But then some would. Me, I just report what I observe to be true, or common, or typical... certainly don't think I'm hot enough shit to deny the experience and perceptions of others who live the life, on the ground, in the area in question. But then, the nets fulla people that know ALL about say, Afghanistan... despite having never been there, not knowing any Afghanis, not knowing anyone thats been there... why stop now.

It's really depressing when smart, pleasant, generous, previously decent people start carrying on like standard issue internet amateur psychics complete with the odd drop of transference and a healthy serving of egotesticalism. They're almost always wrong, but usually manage to fluke say... one or two things.. however you havent even managed that, this time. No ,wait, you did get one. Incriminating things around me? Yeah. Couple pipes. A few weird seeds. Certainly less than 1 percent of my overall seedbank. Couple lil tubs of bubby echinopsis hybrids, etc. Fuck all of anything else, certainly I'm not into cooking DMT or growing my own fungus, and then mentioning such online complete with photos from "my friend overseas" or "my pet gnome". Nothing to go away for, nothing other than a "you be good now, yhear". Yes, it could be otherwise...they CAN give you 25 for a tinny, round here... but they just dont, as a general rule. Yes, I know you can google up a pdf that says otherwise.. but it really just doesnt tend to happen that way. Books and reality are often out of whack...so back to the accusation of MY ASSUMPTION, its NOT an assumption, its a fucking fact... to really know what its like around here, you have to live here. Simple shit, I'd've thought. I don't pretend to know shit about the mood n feel in the ACT, despite having been there a few times, having a brother, an uncle and three cousins there, and a nephew as well... Or can you see the whole world from your druggy lil share house down there, thru a crystal vaporiser or something? But then, you dont need kids to understand parenting, apparently. Wish I was so giftedly empathetic. You could've written a sex therapy book long before getting your end wet, I'll wager. Hm?

Course, I'm just making all that up and secretly I am a heroin wholesaler (bummer of a part of the world to sell heroin,and I can't really afford the stuff, don't know anyone that uses it and wouldn't know where to get any but that just shows how dense I really am) thats never been talked to by the law Makes me wonder why I specifically declined some somni seeds from the freebies thread the other day, though. Pity I never went to university, or I'd know every last fuckin thing like some. And where I don't, I can just assume, or hell.. just make shit up and present it as Ultimate Reality because it fits in with my lil worldview. Thats real class, that is.

Thanks too for the less than vague attempt at making me seem a more interesting target than I ever let myself or my lil family be, too! Bit of a waste, given the many blatant shroom growers, DMT cooks, aya brewers and methheads kicking around here...And for assuming that short term favours undertaken on behalf of others medicinal requirements are signs of rampant production myself, or whatever the fuck you base your lil suggestion on. Don't assume because others are stupid enough to get their jollies and derive some sense of heroism from having houses and yards full of reasons to worry, I do to. My shit is either entirely non existant or entirely secure, and not overly dodgy at that (oh no, they might find my tobacco! or my rivea... tsk, tsk. Oh, and the odd 18 inch tall tops mully every couple years, far far away from anything to do with myself. Scary stuff! I bet theyll shoot me, if I dont get life inside! And very little is anywhere near where I live. But remind me to return the favour someday, would only be fair. Cept I wouldn't, out of some REAL respect (a touch faded, tonight) and a basic sense of fucking courtesy, and certain ideas about how people with similar interests should regard and treat each other...that, and not being a filthy dog who'd see someone else fucked to see emselves being "right". but thats the difference between people that are happy to be comfortable, and those that need something more, isn't it?

I don't need to allude to being in jail, as I never have been. I was lucky enough and more importantly clever enough not to even come close, really. Me and my attitudes, hey? I doubt many other ppl around here have either, to be honest, and I'd put serious money on you never having been there , Sina. Or, given your position with a commonwealth govt entity, even being charged for anything much more than a couple chunks or a bong. If that. Feel free to regale us with tales of your life as a desperado cocaine importer, pimp, or whatever the fuck super shady background you seem to be alluding to. I'm happy enough to have had some funny as hell and scary as hell moments as a drug addled teenybopper... not something I identify with now. I'm a fairly quiet family man with a few veggies, for the most part. Any twit can grow or make illegal drugs, with enough research and investment. Clap. Clap. Clap.

Sick to the guts, to be honest... if I wanted groundless assumption and crass generalisations, name making and cred grabbing, attempts at damaging allegations, and having to get defensive with the defensive after making a blatantly whimsical suggestion...I'd watch more football. I certainly don't come here for that crap. All those enlightening drugs just don't do much, do they, when the shit gets sticky? Still using other people to argue with yourself, or something, still resorting to the standard issue whitebread routines... all you left out was implying I'm gay/fat/short/ugly/secretly 16 years of age... I can't even begin to work it out, and am feeling a lil twilight zone myself.

All that aside, this one "is gonna be totally ignorant of all the plant Y growing in their own front yard no matter how many times you tell them, and unless you've got a damn good lawyer, you're still gonna pay the "Schedule 1" price." had me almost pissing my pants, seems the ones quite a few acquaintances got, back in the day didn't get your sacred fuckin edict, matie. I get it, you're a smart person, some kind of uber-botanical super geek... more power to ya. Doesnt mean you know everything about everything, or anything about anyone. Or fuck all about ME and MY LIFE. I never assumed a damned thing about your past, lifestyle, background or pasttimes Sina, where do you get off doing the same by me? The sitting on your date wishing bit was more in relation to thats that choices I see for myself... active or passive... sorry if it hit a chord inside you, it wasn't my intent. You want to argue with yourself, go for it, leave me the fuck out of it.

Pretty poor form for an alleged mate and fellow hobbyist. And all round previously likeable type. Don't have a brain tumour or something do you? Distinct shift of late... and though you've pissed me off, I'm still enough of a dumbfuck to worry about it. How stupid can ya get? But I am.

Mail me some eggs and a book on how to suck em. I sure need the help, by sounds of it.Care to upfuck defining my reality and personal life experience and observations for me in any other ways? Maybe you could try it on someone else, thatd be a bit funnier. But not by much.

I'm very, very disappointed. Let ya know how the cactus project goes, sometime. You'll get whats due, whatever that is.

VM

Edited April 21, 2008 by Vertmorpheus

[chilli]

Oh boy... that was pretty neat! I feel all flushed! Nah, seriously nice anger there bro, that must have been very cathartic. Or maybe just draining... where the hell do you get all this energy, and shouldn't you be channeling this creative gift into some kind of timeless literary work?

I hope you are at least printing some of this stuff off, so that when you're permanently feeding your plants, your progeny can discover a moldy old stack of diatribes and jeremiads about all these topics that are by then completely irrelevant, and have a laugh at what a crazy old bastard their Dad was.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Sublime Crime

[mu!]

hahah, nice one Vert

[apothecary]

Fine, I don't convince you that there's a threat as you seem to feel the only way any of this can go down is if someone dobs you in to local cops.

Maybe you feel like I was trying to patronise you and call you thick but that really wasn't what was going through my mind when I wrote any of the posts? After rereading, most of the stuff I guess pissed you off was questions posed for you, did you think they where rhetorical? They were actual questions, no patronising goal there?

Sorry, what names did I call you again, which assumptions did I make about you? All I see is putdowns like assuming I sent you seeds for a return, me trying to portray any sort of persona (I just post what I'm thinking), adultescent, commonwealth travel card (I don't even have a licence?), "dodgy drug house fulla students and dole bludgers and tryhard drug geeks who think a few lophs puts you in the same league as the Viet Fucking Cong or La Cosa Nostra", paranoid whitebread, patronising (again), cypress hill (only discovered them last year?), Google Guevera, standard issue internet amateur psychics complete with the odd drop of transference and a healthy serving of egotesticalism, insert far flung educational institution here, druggy lil share house down there, etc. All very creative.

You sure showed me who's the name maker.

No shady past or such to allude to. Maybe it came out that way because I didn't want to sound like I was bragging about it? Same reason I didn't mention any of the orgs I worked for (none of them being far flung).

So if I may use an example pertinent to the actual discussion, how can you comprehend a couple of detectives (not with local police) knocking on your door with a search warrant because of a cannabis caution or association through six degrees of separation like being an ex-accountant for someone who gets busted two years down the track or because they took your photo at a rally or one time a sniffer dog stopped you or you got caught in a cow paddock and you're on record now even though you have no charges.

I got caught at the beach on the last day after a semester of uni with a few subs, we weren't being loud or stupid or noisy or weird (unless you count lying on the beach looking at the stars under a blanket weird) in the slightest in fact had already had a run in with the police earlier and they'd bade us a good time and farewell. Now even though we were let off I know from an unrelated noncriminal encounter with the police that my details and those of my friends are on file.

People HAVE had cops show up on their doorstep several years later using past encounters (i.e. non arrests) as probable cause, not paranoia, fact. People on this forum HAVE been targetted, not reported by their neighbours, not generally dodgy types but types with kids who are in their local community , etc. It DOES happen.

Again, I wasn't trying to vaguely allude to any criminal activity on your part, YOU HAVE SPECIFICALLY DONE THAT YOURSELF MANY TIMES. Most people on this forum (incl me) have, and it's out there for anyone to read, has already been read, and who's to say whether or not they will decide to come after one person or another. So far of the few I've seen, none were the blatant shroom growers or DMT cooks. None of them had a backyard full of worries or was doing anything relatively stupid. Too bad for an unnamed one who ended up lost until a missing persons report was filed and they were discovered in high security jail requiring $10,000 bail, even with a sister in the police force? His ex-girlfriend didn't get to use a character reference when police searched her house? By the way, charges weren't valid (i.e. he was doing nothing illegal) and were dropped. Eventually.

I'm glad you're SO sure that nothing will happen, and if it does "it's just plants".

I didn't go into specifics about anything incriminating you've said, not because I can't, but because I'm trying to "not being a filthy dog who'd see someone else fucked to see emselves being "right"...I've seen a few fucked already and come close myself, that's plenty for me I'd happily go until the day I die to not see another person being in any sort of danger from this sort of stuff.

Funny how I'm a likable, intelligent, "alleged mate" until I refuse to cede a point and then I'm changing in a concerting manner and making you sick to your guts.

I honestly hope you don't leave because of anything I said Vert. Plenty of people around think I'm a dick, I don't mind incrementing the list if it means you'll stay. Just scroll past me if I make you queasy or outraged. Those in "the community" (yes, there is one, it isn't just an internet forum) who know me don't think so (ok maybe some of those do too ) and that's enough for me.

Lastly,

Still, I have to agree with you Sina, that there is a certain misguided idealism that results in a dangerous nonchalance amongst those who have not been actively oppressed by unjust laws... I just don't think many of those people frequent SAB.

Usually those people who are busted through affiliation or frequenting of the SAB forum (the actively oppressed) don't come back to report it, and are sometimes even under order to not disclose the information to ANYONE.

So the nonchalance, which is all I was trying to dispell, persists.

EDIT: For the record, all two of my roommates have jobs and I'm the only one who does any drugs.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Sina

[chilli]

Usually those people who are busted through affiliation or frequenting of the SAB forum (the actively oppressed) don't come back to report it, and are sometimes even under order to not disclose the information to ANYONE.

So the nonchalance, which is all I was trying to dispell, persists.

But I would think most of the people that still come here have felt oppression at one time or another, many to the degrees you refer to, and some much greater, it just may not have had anything to do with SAB.

Vert definitely sounds kind of nonchalant though, or he did until that last little tirade... that's the trouble with being as normal as he is constantly claiming to be.

That last line was bait, I admit.

[MindExpansion]

I didn't read the whole thread because of the length of it, but I thought I'd give my 2 cents.

This law is another imposition on our freedom, really it is, because not only may people only have these plants for ornamental purposes but many won't even know they contain any scheduled substance. Take acacia's for example, they are our national emblem yet according to this law, many would be illegal, very interesting, well I think anyway. There are countless other examples, this law is vastly impracticle, not to mention frustrating for many many reasons.

Peace,

Mind

Edited May 6, 2008 by MindExpansion

[mark80]

Funny how I'm a likable, intelligent, "alleged mate" until I refuse to cede a point and then I'm changing in a concerting manner and making you sick to your guts.

This happens alot not just with vert but with everyone, well everyone apart from me - i understand not everyone ha sthe same view... even if mine is the only right one.