Crossing Cacti

[Teotzlcoatl]

No, some of it is certainly not...

I believe the Lophophora diffusa, Mammillaria, Strombcactus, Turbinicarpus and maybe even the Ariocarpus, Astrophytum and Epithelantha, but... I would like to grow those "Leuchtenbergia Principis x Astrophytum Asterias" seeds out and see what they look like... I can't imagine those two genera hybridizing!

[Garbage]

Maybe they were trying for an Astrophytum Caput Medusae.

[kadakuda]

going by the flowers, i really really really doubt any astrophytum will successfully cross with any Lophophora. what likely ends up happening is the mother ends up pollinating itself, even though the pollen is foreign. i forget the name for this odd thing happening. at least some flowers are at least similar to lophophora like turbs and some mamms.....it would be nice to look at the pollen, it would make narrowing choices down much easier cause you can see its size/shape.

anyone know where a good place is to buy those slides or whatever it is people use in mycology for measuring spores?

[George]

Nice thread. I am trying the same at the moment.

I am planning to try

Mamillaria magnimamma

Mammillaria plumosa

Mammillaria schiedeana

Turbinicarpus macrochele

I did the M.magnimamma pollen to williamsii polinisation today.

I agree with MS smith that Jordanianna is most prolly a hybrid. The flowers is not the only aspect that could be a mutation. It also has those teeny spines. That to me tips the odds more towards it being a hybrid.

[Teotzlcoatl]

What are the best plants to attempt hybridization with Lophophora?

I've got these Species in Mind-

Ariocarpus species (which ones would be best?)

Astrophytum species (which ones would be best?)

Aztekium species

Mammillaria species (which ones would be best?)

Obregonia denegrii

Pelecyphora species

Turbinicarpus lophophoroides; hoferi; jauernigii; laui; swobodae (Lophophoroides Aggregate) pseudomacrochele and possibly other species.

Strombocactus disciformis

Some of the Turbinicarpus flowers certainly look Lophophora-like to me...

What other cacti would be good to attempt hybridization with Lophophora? What about South American cacti like Matucana? What is Lophophora's closest relative in South America?

What are Lophophora's closest relatives??? What was did Lophophora's ancestors looks like????? Do the many small Mexican cacti have a common ancestor?????

Edited September 27, 2008 by Teotz'

[Teotzlcoatl]

I just got a bunch of Turbinicarpus seeds! I can't wait until they flower! (10 years from now )

Can anybody help me with the questions in the above post??

What are the best plants to attempt hybridization with Lophophora?

What are Lophophora's closest relatives???

[kadakuda]

no idea to your answer. i am thinking of comparing pollen (size/shape) under the scope and see if that may* help anything, but i dont really know what to look for.

there has apparently been a diffusa x a. asterias cross, along with some other turbs/loph crosses...and pictures, but i cant say for sure...the pics are convincing though!

[Teotzlcoatl]

"Lophophora-Like" Cacti-

Turbinicarpus hybrid alonsoi x lophophoroides-

Turbinicarpus in Habitat-

Turbinicarpus jauerningii (Frank 1993)-

Turbinicarpus jauerningii-

Obregonia denegrii-

Edited November 16, 2008 by Teotz'

[Teotzlcoatl]

A nice introduction to Cacti Hybridization

[kadakuda]

i got some stuff to share around christmas including some of the above....but i dont want to speak before i have pics, and growing plants.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Maybe I should try a cross with Acharagma?

Check this out!

Look!

[mark80]

Attempted a loph x turbinicarpus lophoroides yesterday, it was my secondf loph flower so i will have to remember or take note here so i don't distribute the seeds as a cross, cause i ain't gonna graft them as i have no grafting stock left ... oops!

anybody know if the other turbinicaprus other than sharzii are able to self seed?

[kadakuda]

i have found that diffusa and even koehresii are a little more willing to accept foreign pollen. williamsii is a high and mighty, frigid little princess. Keep it in the family.

[Jack]

Attempted a loph x turbinicarpus lophoroides yesterday, it was my secondf loph flower so i will have to remember or take note here so i don't distribute the seeds as a cross, cause i ain't gonna graft them as i have no grafting stock left ... oops!

anybody know if the other turbinicaprus other than sharzii are able to self seed?

I have been lead to beleive they all self seed when they reach a certain age, I have only had one plant do this Turbinicarpus lophophoroides. Most of my other plants of this genus although flowering size/age are still on the smaller side.

Much slower than lophophora. But very rewarding, huge variation within the genus. Collectable and cute.

[kadakuda]

i have not started breeding turbs much, many of my plants are jsut now starting to mature....but i have played with

Turbinicarpus jauerningii a bit, and so far (only one year) i have not seen any fruits from self pollinated plants, only crossed ones. but that is a fairly limited experience, maybe only 50 flowers so hard to draw any conclusions....there are some other turb folks around that could answer better.

One reason i have not bred many "peyote look a likes" is because.....the result is nothing too strange, and perhaps difficult to tell if the plant is in fact a hybrid (cause both plants look similar)...hopefully one could tell easily with flowers.

Maybe we should all post our successes and failures on hybridizing. i have a page up about it, but don't think links are cool. so maybe we just start posting here? (pictures or it didn't happen)

[Jack]

kadakuda I am interested in some jauerningii seed if u have any spare?

[Jack]

"The fruits of Turbinicarpus and Gymnocactus are small, greenish, berry-like pods about 2—5 mm in diameter. They occur at the top of the plant often hidden amongst the wooly hairs. The entire genus appears to be self-fertile."

http://www.lapshin.org/cultivar/N40/turgym-e.htm

[kadakuda]

they are flowering now, so be sure to pm me sometime after christmas (i will hopefully have some seed then...but you gotta remind me cause i dont remember things well).

thats interesting that they are all self fertile....guess i messed something up

[Mr Stay Puft]

I actually had a dig at pollination a while back but because me lophs were producing sooo many fruits i got a little mixed up... There is a very good possibility that they ended up in the batch i am giving away for my 100th post so anyone who gets me loph seeds let us all know if any 'weirdos' come out of them!

[kadakuda]

i pull the dead flowers off of normal crosses and leave the flowers on the fruit on hybrids. sometimes i add a piece of tape and write the name of the cross, onto the flower. haven't had any mixups yet

[Inyan]

I like this discussion. First, to be sure you are getting a successful cross you might want to try to emasculate your flowers before the pollen ripens. For intergeneric crosses, some tidbits such as making a pollen cocktail of 5 or more species might be helpful. If one foreign pollen makes it, do you really care which one made it? You can of course figure it out if you label each pollen cocktail and keep good notes. This allows you to test many more pollen types at a time rather than relying on one pollen type and one failed attempt at a time. Frequently, the barrier to fertilization is located in the stigma. This can be overcome by cutting the stigma off or cutting the style in half and then applying the pollen lower down. I recommend mixing the pollen thoroughly before applying it. You also want to dry and then freeze your pollen cocktails. Use what you need and then refreeze for future uses if you have success. You may find that you have to make several crosses with one pollen cocktail to get one to take. It also helps to keep the flower isolated via some barrier to keep the bugs from coming along and helping you out. Oftentimes, you may get a seed pod, but the pod aborts with more difficult crosses. Inside, you may find if your lucky, immature seeds. These will need to be tissue cultured in order to keep them alive and growing in many instances, but simply knowing its possible is half the fun. You also want to label your crosses. Most advocate labeling your cross like this: Lophophora Southern form (seed bearer) x Lophophora Northern form (pollen donator). Keep track of your crosses and your seedlings and go after a specific goal. Some crosses will only work one way. This means you will want to try a single cross with both parents acting as the mom for the others pollen. Just food for thought.

[kadakuda]

some great points man! i have only just begun cutting stigmas etc to try new crosses... but i find mixing pollen is just making things messy. i prefer one failed attempt at a time, because when one works, there is no guessing, everything is in my records and i know for sure, without ever needing to doubt the possibilities (although there is always doubt it seems with hybrids).

[Inyan]

Pollen cocktails is an advanced way of making more crosses than you have flowers to make crosses. Its primary value is achieved only when you realize that the genetic variation in each flower as well as pollen grain itself is variable. With that said, you can figure it out. You just have to keep good notes. And repeat the successful crosses with one pollen at a time from the rare successful pollen cocktail. Perhaps you have a single lophophora that can take a particular foreign pollen. Only one flower is capable of accepting foreign pollen. Every single flower is genetically unique just as each ovule produced from such a flower is genetically unique.

[Inyan]

On self fertility:

All of the known northern williamsii populations that have been looked at are self-fertile. This is based on both DNA work and on planting selfed seeds.

The El Huizache population in SLP is believed to be self-sterile based on failures of breeders to self it. DNA samples have been taken for analysis but they have not been analyzed only purified (while the researchers were still in Mexico).

This is the bit that interests me. A self-sterile locality of a species... if this locality should be able to cross with self-fertile localities, will the resulting seed be self-sterile or merely show a reduced fertility. Not that you these are your only possibilities, still it begs to be answered via cross pollination studies.

[kadakuda]

good question. all mine are self fertile, but i have found a few "caespitosa" that would appear (form 3 years of constant self pollinating and zero seeds) that it is self sterile. in fact i did cross it with a normal williamsii a couple times and got one empty fruit and one fruit of 3 seeds.