Illegal toads

[Fenris]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=323510

By ninemsn staff

A US man and his pet toad have been arrested after authorities accused him of using the critter to get high.

Kansas City police allege David Theiss possessed a Colorado River Frog with the intention of getting high, KMBC-TV reports.

Experts said it was possible for someone to achieve psychedelic effects by licking the toad’s venomous glands.

Most pet stores in Kansas City do not stock the rough-looking, dark-green frog because its venom can kill household animals and sicken humans.

"People used to do it all the time, but it got faded out awhile, but came back as a fad. Not a smart one," animal expert Danny Snyder said.

"The toxins in it can kill a lot of stuff."

Theiss has been released on bond while the toad remains in custody at a police crime lab.

[Amulte]

Bufo alvirus

poor little guys, raped by humans for their 5MEO-DMT and has to share the same family as the Cain Toad (Bufo marinus)

[The Dude]

I understand they'll have to bag the toxin as bad for you and toxic and poisonous and sickness inducing - cuz only the pharmaceutical drugs are good. Fair enough, but if they're going to mention the fact you CAN get high off the frog venom at all than why spread misinformation that may well be the very cause of sickness - as licking the toad venom is definitely not the way to obtain psychedelic effects.

Furthermore, how the fuck could one prove intent to get high off your pet? this whole thing is stupid!

I hear they're a very uneconomical method of 5-meo-dmt production as caring for those is very expensive. Would be cool if they were wild...

Hey I came up with a brillaint idea! Why don't we introduce a foreign species of toad into Australia and see what happens?

[Torsten]

Hey I came up with a brillaint idea! Why don't we introduce a foreign species of toad into Australia and see what happens?

I know you are just kidding, but just inc ase anyone is seriously considering it, please have a look at the other threads dealing with this topic. Bufa alvarius would populate those areas of australia which Bufo marinus hasn't. They wouldn't even compete....

Considering that Qld and other states have similar alws, I wonder what the legality of hunting and freezing [the humane method of killing them] these critters is? Surely having a few kilos of frozen toad in your freezer would have to fall under possession of bufotenine! There is a primary school around here that pays the kids 5c per toad and they kill them at the school. Does that make the teachers drug traffickers?

[Monk]

Does B. alvarius have just 5Meo in it or bufot also? I don't have my books right now to check it. If just the former, it wouldn't be illegal at all as that's not scheduled here. As a side note, I had some acquaintances in college that worked with the reptiles and amphibians at the local zoo. They were animal freaks, loved their pets and had a breeding pair of these at their house. Despite their love of the toads, they did milk them on occasion (gently, I assume.) They offered to let me join them a couple of times, but I'm a plant person. I politely declined and left. I still feel that there's no way I'd ever try it. Weird stuff.

[apothecary]

Mostly bufotenine and some steroidal compounds (which are actually the 'venom' component).

I am not sure if there is any 5-MeO-DMT, but these chemicals seem to occur in nature together, probably incidental along the metabolic pathway.

[The Dude]

From Erowid:

There are several species of toads which produce venom that has psychoactive properties. The venom of one species (Bufo alvarius) contains both 5-MeO-DMT and bufotenin, while several others contain only bufotenin. The psychoactivity of 5-MeO-DMT is clearly established and more data is coming to light which suggests that bufotenin is equally psychoactive (both smoked and oral) although somewhat less potent [Ott, 2000]. While dried toad skins are sold by some vendors, there is little benefit to this method as toad venom can be collected without harming the toad.. 5-hydroxy-N,N- dimethyltryptamine or N,N-dimethylserotonin

Species list:

Bufo alvarius (5-MeO-DMT & Bufotenin)

other Bufo spp. (Bufotenin)

Hyla spp. (Bufotenin)

Leptodactylus spp. (Bufotenin)

Rana spp. (Bufotenin)

...on Bufo Alvarius from here

Half-a-gram to a gram or more of fresh venom can be collected from a large adult specimen of B. alvarius. Half of this weight is water and evaporates upon drying. But, as must as fifteen per cent of the dry weight is the predominant alkaloid, 5-MEO-DMT. In other words, one large toad yielding one gram of fresh venom may equal as much as seventy-five milligrams of potent hallucinogen, psychoactive in man at doses of three to five milligrams.

[edit] just found a use for the common cane toad here, that is if anybody is interested in 5-Acetoxy-dimethyltryptamine, I've got NFI about that one.

Edited November 16, 2007 by El Duderino

[devance]

The Sonoran Desert Toad

Never tried it.

The Dmt is in there in the form the glands which can be exuded by mild electrical shock.

Put on a glass and smoke it.

The problem it has been reported its a feeling of hallucenogenic death.

Not Good.

And not reported otherwise.

15 seconds for DMT. So whatever the toad has it isn't a pure chemical and not for humans.

[devance]

http://www.erowid.org/archive/sonoran_dese...oad/shepard.htm

'An Explorer Scout leader and his wife have been arraigned on drug possession charges after he admitted smoking hallucinogenic venom extracted from rare toads. Bob and Connie Shepard... teachers at a public school-sponsored nature camp... each face up to 15 years in prison if convicted of possessing bufotenine, a hallucinogenic chemical believed to be the psychoactive agent in toad venom, and other controlled substances. '

One think they could at least get the name right as to the chemical which is DMT.

But any all thing will do for some reporters.

After a heavy night of boozing and prots and gambling who can blame them for hanging on too their jobs.

Not like the politicals which are icons and protected.

[Amulte]

is there any info about the Phylo-medusa tricolour out yet?

i remember reading of a planned study into its venoms, but cant find anything. anyone have this paper?

[occidentalis]

is there any info about the Phylo-medusa tricolour out yet?

i remember reading of a planned study into its venoms, but cant find anything. anyone have this paper?

There's a couple

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?c...p;dopt=Citation

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?c...p;dopt=Citation

[devance]

I looked up awhile ago but forgot about it immediately, the monkey frog doesn't have hallucenigic chemicals, even bad ones.

Don't have the links.

If your were a frog as eaten by a snake thats how you would want snake too feel, right.

Might just what human would feel.

[bio]

as far as our cane toads go ... i had 2 kittys, just given birth to a fresh litter each, and they both died from cane toad poisoning.

if a cane toad can kill a cat, im sticking to what we aussies do best with these lil feckers... use them as golf balls.

i mean, im a fan of nature ... but cane toads are something else

[shruman]

"as far as our cane toads go ... i had 2 kittys, just given birth to a fresh litter each, and they both died from cane toad poisoning."

Dang if they only killed cats we would be set.

Sorry u lost ur cats but u should have been more responsible with ur pets, I would rather see ur cats die then have them kill an innocent native frog or toad.

[XipeTotec]

Sorry u lost ur cats but u should have been more responsible with ur pets, I would rather see ur cats die then have them kill an innocent native frog or toad.

did u uncover your knack for conversation from the classic book, "how to win friends and influence people"?

[shruman]

LOL

Yeah that was pretty f'n blunt but my distain for cats irresponsible owners & the damage they both do in our fragile ecosystem makes me a little biased.

bio seems like an alright bloke & I'm willing to look past his irresponsible pet ownership.

"how to win friends and influence people"

Sounds lika a great book , firendship is some kind of competition to be won & lost? & influence can be a good thing or a bad thing, Hitler had plenty of influence.

[Storm crow]

I was at someone's house recently who kept telling me to 'lick the toad!'. I didn't lick it but it was an amusing situation. Tis a shame the beautiful toad(from South America I believe) was not in it's native environment.

I wonder how it feels for the toad to be licked? I can't envision it harming the toad, but who knows, I'm no toad

[hebrew]

when i think of toads an frogs and stuff i think of sapo, i never forget in jungle trip the way the matses get the sapo from the frog, poor little bugger getting probed in every orifice LOL.

sapo is some hardcore shit, but amazingly healing after youhave shat yoruself stupid and vomited yourself silly

[incognito]

strange how these toads apparently have such long toungues and venom glands above/near/behind? their eyes? could there be a dual purpose to these 'venom' glands? aside from the obvious predator repellant/killing propertys.

do THEY utilise the psychoactive substances at all? before/during their mating season maybee?? might be how they get their rhythmic calls pumping along...maybee??

im thinking of the cane toad and the bufo toad in particular.

Edited December 7, 2007 by jono

[Storm crow]

sapo is some hardcore shit, but amazingly healing after youhave shat yoruself stupid and vomited yourself silly

Could you provide more information on that? I am very interested in the healing aspects of various alternative medicines. I haven't heard about toad-licking as a form of medicine

[incognito]

theres a plethora of info on the net tarnicus ill get u some linkys-

http://www.floridagardener.com/critters/BufoMarinus.htm

http://www.erowid.org/archive/sonoran_desert_toad/LaLaw.htm

http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/165_001/pap...ripts/_912.html

so much more- check out erowid and all the usual suspects,

like u however i wait on baited breath to hear what hebs has to say about them. full of wisdom that man! definately MUST be a speaker at the next ega if he wants to or feels up to it. i love u hebs a wonderfully humble shaman, so refreshing.

heres a good one that should answer a few questions tarnicus, almost like a -'booster vaccine' that is implied in western medicine (the toad in this article anyways) amazings stuff indeed.

http://www.mariri.net/content/view/31/1/

hope this helps.

Edited December 7, 2007 by jono

[hebrew]

sapo isnt a bufo, hes a different kettle of fish all together or shoudl i say a different kettle of amphibians

but that is a good article the last one jono linked there, thanks jono for you kind words, i love you too man.

so sapo has been written about by peter gorman alot as he was the dude who was first taking people out to visit the mateses in the amazon, if my memory is correct.

to the mateses, they have 2 sacred medicines sapo and nunu. nunu is a tobacco snuff which in high doses gives dreams that aid in hunting, but can also be worked with to find other things as well like lost items or enemies etc. nu-nu is some really nice stuff, it hurts your head ALOT when you snuff it and it is best taken when someone blows their life force with the snuff, so it is best done with a partner who can administer the snuff via a bamboo reed type tube. blown with extreme force.

sidetracked there but the other medicine is sapo, it belongs to a frog, Phyllomedusa bicolor.

its kinda like a green tree frog.

so they listen to the calls of this frog and then catch it tie it up and probed little sticks into all part of its body, this stresses the frog out and it releases its poison which is scraped off and placed upon some bamboo sticks which is left to dry, when its time to take the sapo some is scraped off the sticks and mixed with saliva or water until it forms a white paste, another stick is set on fire and then blown out that hot end of the stick is used to burn holes on the arm after the holes have been burnt the top layer of skin si scraped off and the white frog paste is applied over the burn marks. that is the way to administer sapo.

if you think that is hardcore then the experience makes that look like a lovely walk in te park on a sunday afternoon.

there is a little information out there about sapo mainly by peter gorman, and in that link jono posted the video is from jungle trip which most of us would have seen i presume?

sapo is different to bufo's it is a mix of different peptites i think which have a very healing effect upon the body, when one works sapo they cleanse their body, sweating, vomiting, shitting dribbling etc. it is near on impossible to fight it you gotta let go completely, after the cleanse you fall asleep or rest fro a few hours it is so intense, then after awakening you are reborn, you senses are heightened like nothing else, you have a great strength within yourself. it is a very strong medicine.

[incognito]

whats ur thoughts on whether on not the toads/frogs themselves utilize the poison/medicine hebs?

the last article is the frog used in sapo medicine, right? just thought id give an overview of the toads and frogs that i knew about that have been utilized in 'medicines'. would love to hear more- i believe my entrance into shamanism has only begun,i just walked of the mark so to speak!. thanks hebs, as always very fascinating.

[incognito]

btw if anyone has access to these frogs.................................................

btw im all good for bufo marinus sandshoe hairy crutch!

[hebrew]

jono i dont really know much about the sapo frog itself, as to the role of the poison. probably a protection thing i guess.