pachanoi (PC) X peruvianus (Eltzner)

[trucha]

grown from seed by my friend GF from a cross he made. Its around 4 feet tall.

More of these F1 pics to come

Edited September 3, 2007 by trucha

[Auxin]

Very pretty

Whats he planning to do with it? Breed it for specific traits, backcross to try and bring one trait into one of the species, etc?

[trucha]

He just crossed them and grew them out for the sake of doing it. Like many hybridizers his sole motivation was simply the joy of creating viable seed and growing them. Most of these won't self so if a person wants to create tehir own seed hybrids are their only real choice.

He died earlier this year so is not planning to doing anything with it. All of his plants went to his many assorted friends.

[Auxin]

Good point on the self-incompatibility issue.

I've often mused that it'd be cool to distribute pollen samples through AFSR. If I can ever get my cacti to flower and produce enough pollen for a few people (in addition to my cryo bank ofc) I think I'll send some off to AFSR, if even just a couple people did that it'd be a good resource for both producing species seed and creating hybrids.

[gusto]

... He died earlier this year so is not planning to doing anything with it...

Not sure if that was intentional dry wit or not, but I got a good chuckle.

Hope I can provide a smile to my friends in passing as well as in living.

[trucha]

I think GF would have appreciated my comment.

Its a nice idea to share pollen.

I collected some the last time the peruvianus Eltzner here flowered with plans to use some of it for a pachanoi here with several buds on it. (Maybe opening tonight?) Lots more buds are on the Eltzner, pachanoi and some odd thing that was supposed to be collected near Cuzco but which I have no clue about its ID after seeing it flower. I'll get some pictures posted at some point.

I also mailed some pollen to a friend due to his trichs being in flowering mode right now.

I took a pair of smal scissors and trimmed off all of the anthers catching them and the pollen in a small bowl. After a couple of days of dry time I put some in each of a number of 000 gel caps.

It would be really cool to create a pollen sharing network. I don't know much about storing it but figure airtight in a refrigerator has to be a good guess to keep it viable for a while.

Tips or suggestions on pollen collection, handling, storage, pollination strategies and whatnot would be appreciated. I've been told that stigma lobes are not as immediately receptive as they are after the flower has been open a day or more but welcome hearing other people's experience. Most people I know try to pollinate as fast as possible to lessen impact of other pollen getting moved around by the assorted vectors which seems in conflict to that. Maybe its worth waiting but removing the pollen as soon as the anthers puff up? I really don't know but do know in some species of noncactaceous plants the pollen is not ready immediately and needs a bit of a wait after the flower opens. OPinions and input is welcomed.

I'd be happy to send some out as long as it lasts and keep collecting more pollen from whatever happens this year and beyond.

I've got a very tiny bit of some SS02 pollen left that I'd like to see mated with either an Eilleen or one of Black Dragon's nicer plants if anyone's down there is heading towards a flower. I'm at least assuming there is enough left as the bees were really aggressive and the anthers I was given had nearly been stripped bare.

The Eltzner might be a nice match for any of those too?

[trucha]

Flowering suggestions:

Put your cactus in the ground or in a bed with free root run if possible.

If they are in containers - don't give them too much space between the plant and the pot (~3 fingers is a good max) and when they get into a 5 or 7 gallon pot, stop transplating or taking cuttings, then let them get rootbound.

Unmolested and mature roots seem to be the most crucial thing for seeing flowering.

Most of the pachanoi and peruvianus sorts should be flowering by the time they get 4 or 5 feet tall if they can be permitted to get rootbound.

Other people's opinions and thoughts are most welcomed of course!

[strangebrew]

PC will flower at 90cm here reliably.

Doesn't your free-root run vs. rootbound theory conflict somewhat?

I had a boom year last year with 2 probably rootbound, definately dehydrated, potted PC's. One's gone into the ground, roots trimmed and the other has remained in the pot with a bit of earth replacement.

It'll be interesting to see what happens this year, they're both plump now so dehydration stress won't be a factor and the weathers been the same as last with some heavy frosts.

Can't say how long pollen is good for out of the fridge, not long I imagine.

In the fridge - about a month.

[Auxin]

Quickest to quote myself from another thread

I store pollen from my peppers et al. in the freezer, lasts for years, but you cant freeze pollen that isnt thoroughly desiccated. From my readings years ago I seem to remember this will work for cacti:

What I do is collect the pollen in miniature test tubes, a 10 ml beaker, even a mini-spoon if the plants indoors, then I put it into a 10 ml beaker and put that in a silica gel desiccator for a day, I transfer it to a 1.5 ml polystyrene microcentrifuge tube (not expensive, I just got a new pack of 100 for $4.25 USD), desiccate that with the top open for a few hours, reach in and close it real fast, put the tube in a medicine bottle filled with dry sand (insulation), label the bottle, put it in the back of the freezer.

When your about to use it the most important thing to remember is to let the vial warm to room temp before opening it.

It was at least a good 7 years ago since I read those papers, no trace of them in my library, but I'm sure I remember a researcher having desiccated cactus pollen survive 2 years in a freezer at -20° C in a temperature buffered container. I made a successful hybrid with 2 year old hot pepper pollen and cactus pollen is more durable so... should have good shelf life particularly if its only pollen, no other plant parts.

Microcentrifuge tubes would likely be better than gel caps, admittedly gel caps would be cheaper but they also inherently contain some water, dont buffer temp as well, and let more air seep in and out. I simply use 1.5 ml tubes because they were free the first time and the second time they were the only one available in lots of 100 when the urge to buy hit. 0.5 ml microcentrifuge tubes are also available and would be much more reasonable for small quantities of pollen.

Good to hear the tips for flowering in pots trucha, thanks

[trucha]

Actually it doesn't conflict since both approaches create the same state of maturing and unmolested roots. Its not the rootbound part that is important but the ability of the roots to get older and mature. The only way to get that in a pot is to stop repotting or perhaps being really careful to cause no root damage when repotting? Putting them in a bed is a much better option and what I would recomment but whatever works.

My present guess is some sort of hormone produced in the roots is required to stimulate flowering initially. Once it has happened even tip cuttings can keep flowering although this can also happen and then stop. Perhaps whatever they need for flowering gets used up?

I have a number of such tip cuttings taken last fall from long established and reliably flowering plants that are covered with buds. It will be interesting to see how this continues in the future or if they will show a break while they get better reestablished.

Some of these are flowering at around a foot tall.

[strangebrew]

Have you ever had tip cuttings that have flowered 2 or more years in a row? I haven't.

I have always assumed that flowering tip cuttings had something to do with flower setting on the mother plant. For example, the areoles that flower on the cutting would have flowered if left on the mother plant etc.

I have noticed that any areoles that produce flowers are in a position to receive some sunlight for at least part of the winter rest period. Areoles that are always in shade don't seem to, at least IME so far.

[trucha]

That is why I am thinking whatever they need to flower came from the roots they once had and gets used up in the process of flowering. That has been my consistent observation in the past too.

I'll know by next year if there are any exceptions as I now have at least 8 flowering tips that were broken off their assorted mothers in the process of their move here.

THe Eltzner peruvianus had four fat branches at around 6-8 feet tall when I started home. It made it home just fine and completely intact but not out of the truck. Two people were just not enough as it required three of us to wrap and load it.

I suspect the tips will all need some more time to see them flower again while the mothers will be flowering again next year.

The flowering areoles on these are occurring whether on the sunny or shady side so perhaps the trigger for flowering happened while they were still on their mother in the full sun that they used to enjoy while still in the Bay? I did not keep track of their orientation prior to planting them but would think that your observation is solid.

[strangebrew]

Unmolested and mature roots seem to be the most crucial thing for seeing flowering.

Actually you may be on to something there. I've just noticed today the first signs of bud formation at the tip of the potted rootbound PC - no signs on anything else yet but it's early days.

It may also explain why some other plants that I thought should have flowered by now haven't... I have been repotting every 2 years on the whole.

I would hazard a guess then that in most cases at least 3 years untouched is needed for a plant to flower.

Re: shade - Cuttings that budded but were left in the shade have always lost their buds for me. Also, if actively growing buds(on a plant) in the sun suddenly found themselves in shade i.e. because of the movement of the sun, they stalled and would only continue to grow when they found themselves in sunshine again.

[trucha]

I'll let you know what happens with the buds now in shade. I should know within a few weeks. It would not surprise me if they do abort.

[trucha]

pachanoi (pc) X peruvianus (Eltzner)

I have not had adequate time to work on photos very much but for the moment thought I should post this low resolution assemblage These are all hybrids resulting from a single pair of parents (crossed with each other in both directions)

Grown out by GF.

For scale, the red framing is made of 2x4s.

Edited September 17, 2007 by trucha

[Ace]

Factastic pix Trucha! It'd be great to see them done in a family tree style, with both parents at the top and the different families (pachXperu + peruXpach) so you can clearly see how the genes have been divided up between the bubs.

As for the flowering via mature roots, I think it is a great theory, but I was just thinking about grafted plants - how do you explain that? I guess they will still only really flower on mature stocks with mature root systems, but I wonder what would happen if you were to chop the stock down and re-root? I wonder if the scion would continue to flower, or would it stall, just like a big trich? Hmm, I think you might definately be onto something there - especially the hormones produced from mature root systems... It'd certainly explain a few things, like buds on mature cuts flowering, but not coming back until the roots are fully developed again. I wonder if there has been any formal research on the topic?

[strangebrew]

Unmolested and mature roots seem to be the most crucial thing for seeing flowering.

Ahh... not necessarily, well the unmolested part anyway!

Three tall(over a metre) macro-type plants in the ground for a couple of years, never flowered. One was pulled out due to space limitations with broken roots etc. and left to languish against a wall above the ground over winter.

So 2 in ground, 1 out of ground. Guess which one finally decided to flower.

[M S Smith]

I'm not suprised that the plant that was at the most risk of dying found the need to reproduce quicker than the others.

~Michael~

[trucha]

Root speculation comments do not hold for the globulars. Lots of them flower even when constantly repotted not just when they are grafted. I suspect columnar trich roots may produce hormones that circulate and once exposed the plant can flower that year. This does not mean it will of course. Iv'e seen plenty of trichs start buds that then go nowhere for one reason or another.

All I know is that I grew these plants for more than 25 years before seeing mine flower and yearly or biyearly repotting as well as dividing columns for sake of increasing numbers was my norm for those years.

Now I get tons of flowers and have seen many dozens of trichs flowering in even 3 - 5 gallon pots.

I only report what I've seen. My explaination needs evaluation by more people before I can know its right rather than me missing something else about them.

It will be interesting to hear which of those macrogonus flower next year.

Edited January 11, 2008 by trucha

[PD.]

Have you ever had tip cuttings that have flowered 2 or more years in a row? I haven't

Not 2 years in a row but a T. terscheckii X tip cutting i have grew little the first season but the next year threw out alot of flowers, spachianus tip cuts seems to flower very readily and have flowered for the second year in a row this season

[strangebrew]

It will be interesting to hear which of those macrogonus flower next year

Sure will. That bud didn't make it BTW, it dropped with under a week to go.

One of the potted pachanoi that I mentioned above that flowered profusely last year and was then put into the ground at a different angle only put out one flower this year but it's potted mate that was left in place put out 70 odd so I'm sure you are on the right track. It was interesting to note also that the local Botanic gardens shifted their cactus garden this year and all the Trichocereus plants that had flowered before still flowered in their new positions.

Not 2 years in a row but a T. terscheckii X tip cutting i have grew little the first season but the next year threw out alot of flowers

Again, it'll be interesting to see what happens next year.

[trucha]

As did those buds sprouting in shade on the transplanted tips of whatever the trich it is here.