Hagakure Posted July 21, 2007 got a new mini setup for cacti seedlings and grafts. got a foam box and chucked a lamp in there with a fluro bulb (forgotten how many watts but was as high as i could get) the lamp is on a timer and provides light and heat. been freezing in SA recently yet im getting temps around the 30-37 range inside it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark80 Posted July 21, 2007 I'd say cover the insde with al foil to give more reflective surface Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XipeTotec Posted July 21, 2007 white will throw back most light. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark80 Posted July 21, 2007 That maybe so. but look at the 2nd picture the whole box is illuminated showing that light is escaping, al foil won't let light through. Its also cheaper then white metal or mirrors (which would porbably be best). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teonanacatl Posted July 21, 2007 it will be fine, if not get panda film its cheap. Alfoil makes hotspots and tears easy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted July 21, 2007 Hi Hagakure, have an eye on the lamp. I once had one of these boxes too but it melted. bye Eg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonic Posted July 21, 2007 I would have thought 37 degrees celsius would be a bit too hot. 30 is usually the recommended temperature max. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jesus On Peyote Posted July 21, 2007 (edited) I donno about the temperatures and all but i think its pretty cool, i probably wouldent worry about the too technical stuff if its only though winter. a little temperature gauge will help with temp control but i dont think it would be a big problem if your only using a fluro,as long as maybe you move t he globe a little away from the plastic or cover the plastic up with somthing alittle more heat resistant and light reflective like others have said. good stuff. ---edit--- Also maybe get a 48wt fluro, iv used them b4 and their pretty meaty Edited July 21, 2007 by Jesus On Peyote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted July 21, 2007 Looks like a 25-30W CFL. Looks like "warm white" (although could just be the pic) you should switch to "cool white" for best results with cacti. 37 is way too hot. It's probably only getting that hot from lack of airflow, and that is a definite issue, at the very least you should crack the lid 5cm or something! Like teo said, foil will cause hotspots and cacti are a lot less able to handle them than normal plants. Just because it doesn't let light through doesn't automatically mean morel ight is reaching the plant. Flat white surfaces reflect 80% of the light that hits them, maybe 60-70% for this styrofoam, but for every bump and crease in the foil you can have a lot of trouble in regards to reflection. Keep in mind that CFLs (unlike fluorescent tubes) can get really hot especially without airflow and if the plants get within 5cm they are likely to unrecoverably burn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teonanacatl Posted July 21, 2007 my setup cranks early 40s in summer, watch the temp and maybe compensate by increased watering. can always cut holes in lid. Everyone is double posting lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted July 21, 2007 High temps are fine I guess, as long as there is airflow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teonanacatl Posted July 21, 2007 thats exactly right :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hagakure Posted July 21, 2007 yeah been finding bit too much steam with no air flow. rigged the light from the side and got the lid at an angle so there is a spot for air to go in and come out. will keep an eye on it for a while and see how that goes. cheers for advice. would like to try germinating seeds using a closed lid and perhaps a big tray of seeds. can get really hot and humid and then cold nights would cool it right down hopefully simulating desert conditions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted July 21, 2007 The best spot to germinate the seeds (at least Lophs and Trichs) is resting on the lid directly above the light, the bottom heat does wonders can cut a week off germination time. They'll green up happily just from ambient light in the room and once they've all germinated you can stick them in there with the rest of the babies Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hagakure Posted July 22, 2007 (edited) yeah used to use bottom heat from computer monitor and that was pretty successfull if the ambient room temperature was warm enough (it wouldnt be at the moment) i guess i could rig it so the light is under a whole lot of these tubs but might just try sealing them in there first. it really warms up and would get quite humid in the tuppaware. and as for the airflow problem now its letting too much heat out. would it be okay to seal it through the day then once in a while each day open it up and allow some good exchange of air? might try that and a few small holes in the lid. cheers for comments and advice Edited July 22, 2007 by Hagakure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted July 22, 2007 Cacti are CAM plants, which means the stomata open only at night. If you feel like you can only open the lid at various times, then once the lights are off is the best time. I'm not sure if there are adverse effects to having no airflow during the day, but my instinct says "yes". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaBReT00tH Posted July 23, 2007 (edited) Hey Hagakure, nice setup man! Apocathery --> where do you get a 'Cool white' screw in fluro globe from? Supermarkets? Is it easy to distinguish between the cool white and warm white on the packaging of the globe? Does the cool white fluro allow enough heat to be produced in the confined space satisfactory to the cacti growing conditions? Also, would a cool white fluro mean you can shine it directly on Lophs without the need for light filtration or shade? Teonacatal ---> where do you get panda film from? I'm looking to similarly modify my small indoor setup (for winter) cause at the moment it's SHITE, and my plants really aren't growing. Would like something nice for germination in winter too. Edited July 23, 2007 by SaBReT00tH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted July 23, 2007 (edited) Apocathery --> where do you get a 'Cool white' screw in fluro globe from? Supermarkets? Is it easy to distinguish between the cool white and warm white on the packaging of the globe? They all say 'warm red' or 'warm white' or 'cool white' or whatever on the package. If they don't, then don't get it. Does the cool white fluro allow enough heat to be produced in the confined space satisfactory to the cacti growing conditions? All compact fluorescents produce equal amounts of heat, only the tubes are heatless. Cool white merely refers to the colour spectrum in kelvins that the light displays, not the temp! Also, would a cool white fluro mean you can shine it directly on Lophs without the need for light filtration or shade? Depends on wattage. I have noticed Trichs and similar to be happy under anything between 25-400W, but lophs probably require shade for anything over 20W (alternatively if you are only growing lophs it's easy to just use a 15W CFL. Teonacatal ---> where do you get panda film from? Panda film = mylar = from any hardware store. EDIT: The issue with mylar is that for any decent reflection, the mylar must be 100% flat. Any kinks or creases will automatically drop your reflectiveness by several orders of magnitude. Achieving perfect flatness is difficult, matt white cardboard is much easier to use/clean/keep flat for 80% reflection. Edited July 23, 2007 by apothecary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaBReT00tH Posted July 23, 2007 is Matt white cardboard better than alfoil? And where can I get matt white cardboard from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted July 23, 2007 Jeez dude. You need your hand held the whole way huh? As mentioned several times in this thread alone, foil is the WORST thing you can use. You can buy cardboard from the newsagents. Newsagents are usually found near other shops, or inside shopping complexes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shruman Posted July 23, 2007 "foil is the WORST thing you can use." Yeah probly but if u have to use it make sure u use the dull side to reflect cause the shiny will create hot spots & try not to crinkle it as much as possible. Mirrors are pretty poor as well cause light has to travel through the glass then hit the reflective then travel back through the glass again which makes them almost useless, IMO worse than foil. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted July 23, 2007 Mirrors and foil are only even considered because we (humans) see them as usefully reflective. It pays to keep in mind that plants don't "see" like we do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SaBReT00tH Posted July 23, 2007 (edited) Jeez dude. You need your hand held the whole way huh?. Wasn't sure if the cardboard you were talking about was a normal type or a shiny one, which would allow a better reflection of light. I know a lot of news agencies in our small city don't keep a lot of stock on hand and asked the question to findout any alternatives where they could be available from. I thought alfoil was only bad with sunspots if it was crinkly, and from what I read ABOVE, if put on properly could reflect the light more valuably than white cardboard. THAT's what I was asking!! Someone needs some P.M.S. tablets!!! Edited July 23, 2007 by SaBReT00tH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyAmine. Posted July 23, 2007 Panda film = mylar = from any hardware store.. Panda Film = Mylar = incorrect Mylar is a shiney silver film similar to auto-tinting film and Panda Film is the one side black, one side white type of plastic sheet I hear that mirrors are the worst.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
