Klin Kava Bioassays...

[dqd]

Here's mine from the kava importation thread

My turn

Kava extremely well packed in vacuum sealed packs with tear open seal and ziplock to boot! Excellent colouration, fine grind - no sticks 'n bark here! Extra-fresh aroma on opening, best looking kava I've seen for quite a while. To the prep...

I won't bother listing my medications as I've found there is no impact on the effects of kava . No other substances were partaken of during the day/night, as always of course!

I use the cloth-and-massage technique - always have. I used to use plain muslin, but found by far it's cheaper to buy a pack of cheap-n-nasty hankies - wide enough weave and cheap . I used my usual recipe for accuracy of results:

To 1 hankie was added a rounded one third cup (halfway between level and heaped ) of Klin kava. To this was added one level teaspoon ground cinnamon. The hankie was gathered together and knotted, forming a parcel - not tight, as you need to leave room for expansion/kneading.

In one microwave rice-cooker was 1 litre tap water and one heaped teaspoon lecithin granules. I find the rice cooker just right as there's plenty of room for kneading and it catches the inevitable splashes.

The kava bundle was added and left to soak for 5 minutes. I do 4 lots of kneading for a couple of minutes each time, with a few minutes rest in-between.

The first thing I noticed was the colour of the liquid - instead of the usual muddy colour from cheaper kavas this product turned the water a lovely honey colour, but still with the usual 'head'. The aroma seemed cleaner/sharper than the usual waka too.

Kneading done I squeezed out the kava bundle, and trannsferred the now prepared kava to a jug. I keep a spoon sitting in it to stir before serving .

First glass of 4 (4 glasses/litre)... smooth come-on, a smile began flickering at my lips . Gave it 10 minutes for full effect to be felt, which was...

Really nice . Much stronger than the waka, but not a hard hitter like other Vanuatan kavas. Basically I've always equated Fijiian kava with beer in effects (not exact, but a good analogy), and Vanuatan to be bourbon and coke, but this stuff... sipping whiskey . Big grin on the dial now . Can't wait and pour the second glass...

VERY nice . Feel great but not glued to the chair either. Spot my bass as midnight oil kick in. After three songs remember to have another glass...

... smile has not left my face. Start preparing second bowl .

Can't be buggered writing any more, have to finish making the second bowl, oh so very nice...

This kava is the closest I've come to my magic mix of waka-Vanuatan-Hawaiian Black.

I suggest we use the five star rating system, substituting smilies for for stars. In my opinion, taking into account fast delivery, packaging and quality I have to award Klin Kava...

Thanks John, you've just earned yourself a return customer! If only I could afford the instant kava, I'd love to try that one!!!

Thanks mate, there's no way you're James

I'll leave it there, further views on Klin Kava can be found in the mother thread ... any others wish to share their experiences?

[Stonehenge]

It sounds nice but is it one of the safe varieties? There is another thread about the unsafe types or cultivars.

[dqd]

It sounds nice but is it one of the safe varieties? There is another thread about the unsafe types or cultivars.

Moot point now I'm afraid. Search the recent threads for kava and you'll see the changes to the kava importation laws...

[Guest Øskorei]

It sounds nice but is it one of the safe varieties? There is another thread about the unsafe types or cultivars.

Hmmm, yea, redundant. Actually, was it ever about cultivar varieties ? You will find it was the parts of the plant that was the problem (ie consumable kava is from the root only). TONS of info scattered around the forum.

[apothecary]

Hmmm, yea, redundant. Actually, was it ever about cultivar varieties ? You will find it was the parts of the plant that was the problem (ie consumable kava is from the root only). TONS of info scattered around the forum.

Didn't you see the recent paper where certain "strong" cultivars (roots n all) such as 'tudei' have been shunned by traditional drinkers?

[Guest Øskorei]

Didn't you see the recent paper where certain "strong" cultivars (roots n all) such as 'tudei' have been shunned by traditional drinkers?

No actually, elaboration (or links) might be nice, Apoth. Does strong=not safe ?

[apothecary]

Check the "New perspective on liver toxicity of Kava" thread in this subforum.

Interesting is also that the varieties marketed in recent years as "extra strong" are in fact shunned traditionally and follow the toxic profile. In particular I am referring to the tudey [tudei] variety that kavaman was peddling and which is being sold by Medicine Garden.

[Torsten]

It's not a redundant topic at all as we have plenty of overseas members [incl stoney] and this issue will continue to affect the herb market via the pharma products which will no doubt pop up everywhere in oz.

[coin]

I take the point of "no drink" cultivars to mean they should not be imbibed regularly.

I had read long ago that different cultivars are preferred for particular purposes -- ie. some were for relaxation, while others were more heady/intoxicating and were better suited for forms of 'divination,' but possibly not for every day use

[Torsten]

I had a long chat to John today and I hope he can educate us a little about different strains. I will try and direct him to this thread. John knows a lot about both the traditional uses and the commercial applications of the different varieties.

I also grabbed some of his kava, in particular the frozen green stuff. I got home pretty late so didn't feel like doing complicated blending procedures etc, so decided to first sample his instant kava.

Recommendations state to use 1-2 teaspoons in water. I used soymilk for my first one , thinking it would emulsify better, and ended up turfing it out because it went lumpy and . Listen to the man!!!! [or at least the label]

So I put 2 spoons of instant [from a new sachet] into a glass and added 150ml cold water. It dissolved instantly. Went down painlessly [and I HATE the kava taste as a result of long term exposure ]. Within 2 minutes I could feel mild tingles and I thought well, here we go again. Point being that that is as far as I ever seem to get. Just the tingles. Even 4g of pure lactones didn't give me more - just longer.

Then I figured I might as well keep going and had another 2 teaspoons. Boy ohhhh boy . For the last half hour I've been wanting to type, but couldn't [ditto for walking]. It's still difficult. But it is wearing off slowly. Lips and fingers feel like I am on NOs! Tummy doesn't feel too great, but I think it will stay down.

That's the most inebriated I have ever been off kava, and I have consumed a shitload. I obviously respond really well to the lactone profile of this variety. I LOVE IT .

Anyway, going to push my envelope tonite. I intend to finish the 32g bag. The 4 spoons amount to more than half of it already. I guess they weren't too level

So, not only is John of Klinkava a nice guy, he also has a kick ass product [and geez, he is sooooo not kavaman ]

edit: Downing the next lot indicated the definite and immediate need to take half a stemetil [antinauseant]

[planthelper]

sounds like this material is "crawling backwards" strength, what it means is that after consuming a lot of strong kava, one can't walk anymore, but only crawl. being able to only crawl, after using substances is quite common, but kava is the only intoxicant i heard of which makes the paticipant crawl backwards....

i wanna crawl backwards too!

i would like to hear of a trader which, trades in whole root materials, in other words material which has not been pounded yet. because visual inspection of the root gives one a very good idea about the quality of the material.

it's similar like dope bud's are left as a whole to show you there quality and don't get traded chopped up, pounding kava is a way of concealing the materials quality.

it's hard to get the best parts of the plant, as often the farmers take the best parts for themselves, and for this reasons it hardly even leaves the village, and even more so hardly gets exported.

i can only talk about fiji, but around 20 years ago i saw some kava at a small market for sale. one stall sold some grog which was from memory about 5 or 10 times more expensive than the waka grade. i bought it, and later as i gave it to the village chief who invited me into there village, i was told that they respect me a lot as, i showed lot's of respect by giving them the best kava possible.

[Torsten]

OK, those last two spoons did nothing to stop the return to straightness

So I just downed the last two spoons of that bag, plus 2 spoons from another bag.

That means there are 8 of my spoons per bag and I've now had 10. This may be my last post for tonite

I am curious why the last 2 spoons did nothing though. They should have at least kept me where I was. I wonder if the stemetil may have something to do with this? If it did then I guess the last 4 spoons won't work either.

edit:

I am starting too many posts, so I will just edit this one instead. I am smashed. Typing difficult. Bit cold in the hands and feet, but hey, it's fucking cold tonite. Walking not possible. Mind is sharp as a tack though. I got tingles down my scalp and neck !!!! Definitely serotonin involvement there. In fact physically it feels like taking half an e while being really drunk [except the head is 110% clear]. I have never had this feeling from kava. I am sooooo impressed. Tried to scratch an itch in my nose, but stabbed my eye instead . I wonder if it is that funky methylene dioxy bridge bringing that on? I want separate lactones!

Oh, and strangely enough I have libido rumblings. Could kava maybe displace GABA from the GABA-a sites? I still don't believe kava is a GABA-a drug. Feels more like GABA-b.

Did I mention I was smashed?

[coin]

What do you think causes the nausea for you T? Is it because of the taste or is that why you hate the taste?

I do remember a bit of your early stories about total incapacitation, etc

I haven't tried any kava for over a year but I'll post a bioassay of the klin kava during the week -- but it will probably be redundant .. it sounds like a good product

Would definitely like to hear more about the different strains

[coin]

Hmm also, I don't want anyone to reveal trade secrets, but I'm curious - what's the basic prep for producing instant kava?

[Torsten]

What do you think causes the nausea for you T? Is it because of the taste or is that why you hate the taste?

The taste doesn't help, but it is actually primarily the inebriation that causes the nausea. I get car/train/rollercoaster sick, and this doesn't feel all that different as far as my tummy goes. But then, years of sampling all sorts of stuff have left my tummy a bit worse for wear. I would not suggest that anyone else would have anywhere near the problems that I do. In fact, I could bet that hardly anyone would have any nausea at the dose I took tonite.

On some rides the dopamine seems to overrride the nausea, but obviously not on GABAergics.

I do remember a bit of your early stories about total incapacitation, etc

That was with an accidental ingestion of 10ml of vodka after ingesting 4g of kavalactones. A different feeling. Much more nauseating and 'dirty'. But gee, it kicked ass.

I haven't tried any kava for over a year but I'll post a bioassay of the klin kava during the week -- but it will probably be redundant .. it sounds like a good product

Knowledge is never redundant. These are the first klin kava bioassays on the web, so they will help guide others - even if that is not in australia. This is an excellent product and John takes real pride in the processes he uses to produce the best kava. I think he will be around for a long time.

Would definitely like to hear more about the different strains

I have asked John to enlighten us a bit. An SAB forum page now rates above klinkava.com on google, so posting here makes good economic sense for him. I think he will join us when he is not so busy. Presumably not before midweek.

[Torsten]

Hmm also, I don't want anyone to reveal trade secrets, but I'm curious - what's the basic prep for producing instant kava?

In a (coco)nutshell: Make a traditional brew, then strip off the water [usually by freeze drying]. John can elaborate on details. My fingers are confused

btw, klinkava's instant kava shits all over kavaman's product [which is distributed via medicine garden, psychoactiveherbs.com and various wholesalers]. I mean, NO COMPARISON. I still have some of James Armitage's crap here and there is no way I would sell or ingest that now that I know what it is supposed to be like.

As James / kavaman is a major distributor in the international EB community, I predict that John will easily capture much of the ethnobotanical market around the world. Hence my previous statement that he will be around for a long time. As far as the instant kava goes it is by far the best I have EVER come across. It's not just strong, but also nice.

[coin]

Cool .. well I'll still post my report then, cos I've always liked kava and am sure I'll enjoy John's kava (I ordered the plain dried product) .. I've just never found that many other people who will partake communally because of the taste & because I warn them about interactions with alcohol (ie. they are planning to drink later in the evening) It's something that I share in a small group with people that are a bit more informed/flexible

Years ago you informed me of how effective good quality kava can be to ameliorate anxiety in very small dosages, so I would like to continue using it or having the option of using it for myself or people I know, in a similar manner, or for more recreational purposes

Thanks for your responses -- but just a quick question .. having read the other thread -- what would be the best way to preserve the dried kava for extended periods of time? Just throw some desiccant capsules into the bags and put them in the freezer??

[Torsten]

Thanks for your responses -- but just a quick question .. having read the other thread -- what would be the best way to preserve the dried kava for extended periods of time? Just throw some desiccant capsules into the bags and put them in the freezer??

Seal the bags [double or even triple] and keep in freezer.

[Conan Troutman]

Seal the bags [double or even triple] and keep in freezer.

John...TOP BLOKE Cant wait for some klinkava

I would agree on your GABA B thoery T...I find the peripheral effects of GABA to much like kava, no one has used these in combination??

[Torsten]

well, today was a write off. I felt like I was on valium all day. So much for not getting hangovers on kava. But it was all self inflicted and I am not complaining [much]. I now know where to stop next time.

[Guest Øskorei]

I thought it was hilarious reading your posts when you were in the midst of it. That in itself suggests that it's some pretty great product.

[Klin Kava]

So I put 2 spoons of instant [from a new sachet] into a glass and added 150ml cold water. It dissolved instantly. Went down painlessly [and I HATE the kava taste as a result of long term exposure ]. Within 2 minutes I could feel mild tingles and I thought well, here we go again. Point being that that is as far as I ever seem to get. Just the tingles. Even 4g of pure lactones didn't give me more - just longer.

Then I figured I might as well keep going and had another 2 teaspoons. Boy ohhhh boy . For the last half hour I've been wanting to type, but couldn't [ditto for walking]. It's still difficult. But it is wearing off slowly. Lips and fingers feel like I am on NOs! Tummy doesn't feel too great, but I think it will stay down.

That's the most inebriated I have ever been off kava, and I have consumed a shitload. I obviously respond really well to the lactone profile of this variety. I LOVE IT .

Anyway, going to push my envelope tonite. I intend to finish the 32g bag. The 4 spoons amount to more than half of it already. I guess they weren't too level

So, not only is John of Klinkava a nice guy, he also has a kick ass product [and geez, he is sooooo not kavaman ]

edit: Downing the next lot indicated the definite and immediate need to take half a stemetil [antinauseant]

Wow! 32 grams one night. I usually stop at half that. Having a gut full of kava, be it powdered or fresh will, in most cases bring on nausea. I would say about 30% of first time drinkers would not feel the affect of kava on their first attempt, provided theyonly have a couple. However once they have had a big hit like you have just had, people seem to feel the affects quicker from there on in.

A young fellow (Ben) who was looking to buy land in Vanuatu stayed with me a few weeks ago. It was his second visit and his second attempt on kava. On his first visit he could not get anything from his nakamal experience except for nausea. This time around I introduced him to my liquid concentrate and after 4 small shells we dragged him to my car. His legs wouldn't move his eyes couldn't see and his speech was very very slow. After that night he only needed 1 shell from a nakamal to give him a good affect.

[Klin Kava]

Thanks for your responses -- but just a quick question .. having read the other thread -- what would be the best way to preserve the dried kava for extended periods of time? Just throw some desiccant capsules into the bags and put them in the freezer??

 

As Torston said, keeping it in the fridge or freezer preserves the kava almost indefinitely.

Klinkava comes in a resealable sachet, so once you have decantered the amount you want quickly seal the sachet again. When you initially open the sachet , don't cut it too close to the zip. Before resealing with the zip, partly close the zip, leaving an inch not closed and force all the air our of the sachet by rolling it up(hard). When all the air is out, finish the last inch of the zip.

If your kava ever becomes smelly (bacteria) put it on a tray in the hot sun for a while and it should return to normal.

[Klin Kava]

Hmm also, I don't want anyone to reveal trade secrets, but I'm curious - what's the basic prep for producing instant kava?

Its taken 3 years to develop Instant Klinkava and it hasn't always been as strong or reasonable tasting.

The basic principles are to

[*]Factors

[*]Select the correct kava genotypes from the right areas

[*]combine the genotypes at the right proportions for the best synergy

[*]process within 24 hours of harvesting

REMOVE ALL SKIN FROM THE USUABLE PARTS, which are the basal stump (no stems or buts of stems) and roots(from underground not surface ones)

[*]Avoid oxidization during processing

It takes about 12kg of green kava to make 1 kg Instant. The whole process will take about a week(7days).

Edited July 1, 2007 by Klin Kava

[Klin Kava]

I take the point of "no drink" cultivars to mean they should not be imbibed regularly.

I had read long ago that different cultivars are preferred for particular purposes -- ie. some were for relaxation, while others were more heady/intoxicating and were better suited for forms of 'divination,' but possibly not for every day use

I can only speak for Vanuatu, but different provinces and/or villages have their preferred species/genotypes. Some grow and dry only tudei kava, usually Palis, Ambae, or Smooth Hand. Fiji buyers like these varieties because it gives their kava a better strength when mixed. If you thought when you buy Fiji Kava thats all you get in your bag, then you would be quite often be mistaken. Santo Island alone was selling 17 cantainers a month of dried kava to Fiji buyers. Since the debarcle between Vanuatu and Fiji sales have deminished and sometimes none to 3 containers leave a month. I think none at the moment. Fiji now sources most of their externally acquired kava from PNG, tonga and Somoa.

The tudei kava generally gives you the hangovers for up to 2-3 days. Some tudei kavas are used for ceremonies and general drinking by locals. This is more prevelant for the Kava Ambae which many call a tudei kava but the locals will disagree with this. I tried using Kava Ambae in the instant but it used to give me a headache. I know one nakamal that uses one third Ambae in all his mixes and gets no complaints and sells the most kava on Santo.

I use the ceremonial Chief's kava Melo Melo (30%) and Borogoru (70%) in my mixes. Melo Melo gives the good sharp hit but reduces the time the effects last. Generally the Instant Kava (buz) affects last up to 2-3 hours before it starts to noticeably disappear.

Torsten's experience of reaching a high and unable to go further with more consumption is quite tipical. Trying to drink more after that generally only makes you sicker.

Vanuatu Kava scientist (Vincent Lebuet) has been granted 30,000,000 vatu to ride Vanuatu of the tudei kavas and educate growers into growing the better safer varieties. This will be a difficult task when buyers are asking for the tudei kavas.

After the kava is dried, it is difficult to determine what variety it is, so the farmers will tell you what you want to here. If you want Palis, then thats what they will have in their truck, if you want borogoru and they have already told you its Palis, they will have a little discussion, argue (in their native tongue) and then say the first call was a mistake by the person who said it, and its actually Borogoru. You can have a little fun in these scenerios.

I choose my areas where I know they grow certain varieties only. As most of my kava is purchased green I have less trouble in identifying the genotypes. If I get it wrong, my factory girls will soon set me straight.