Mosman Council Bans Smoking in Public!

[foolsbreath]

I heard on the news this morning that Mossman council is banning smoking in any public place. Hows that for a restriction of human rights. I am not a smoker and have absolutely no problem with smelling a whiff of smoke. I can understand the rule in enclosed places or a sports stadium, but parks, car parks, bus shelters etc, I don't understand?

Whats more a pole on sunrise has more than 50% of callers agreeing with this? Aren't people worried about their civil liberties?

Furthermore, the non smoking public is being urged to dob on smokers who do light up in public, seriously, I can just see the hate crimes starting, and revenge attacks

I can name 2 things straight away I would rather see banned, dogs outside at night (three of my neighbors have dogs that regularly wake me up at night and dirt bikes used in suburban areas as everyday vehicles (also waking me up at 2 in the morning regularly), Why aren't these banned? I'm not advocating that they should be banned, just asking why other things that are more intrusive on ones life are ok?

A blatant case of discrimination!!

Enter the police state!

Mosman council bans smoking

[Auxin]

Aren't people worried about their civil liberties?

The average person is trained not to think things through that far. If it were otherwise how would any of the tyrannical laws of late have been passed?

Your probably right about hate crimes and revenge, I bet a disproportionate amount of blacks, browns, and gays will be fined, as well as ex-boy/girlfriends ex-husbands/wives, etc.

[husk]

i can't say i'm that sympathetic...

"As well as beaches, outdoor dining areas, children's playgrounds, public events, playing fields and the grounds of council-managed buildings - already covered by existing restrictions - smoking will now be banned from all parks, public squares, bus shelters and council car parks. "

"The only public outdoor place smokers may light up will be some footpaths and roads, but they must check they are more than 10m away from any council-managed building or children's playground. "

seriously who needs to smoke at the beach anyway?

ppl can still smoke on the street though which is where i would prefer they didn't.

i used to get nice big mouthfuls of smoke for just walking down an unavoidable side of the street. nowi hold my breath!

let's face it a lot of smokers unfortunately don't give a flying fuck if anyone is offended or invaded by their smoke.

always, (and i work and lived around Mosman/NthSyd) the workers that take their cig break right outside the office building give no one any choice if they wish not to walk through a smoke screen and seem not to care either.

these sorts of ppl fucked it up for the rest of them and that's that i suppose.

and then the others that do smoke in more open spaces just flick their butts where ever they deem suitable, actually no, they would never give it that much thought.

i wish i could say it's every persons' choice, even though there is the most evil shit in those things that kill ppl everyday.

but i have seen one too many close close friends and family affected horribly by ciggarettes, so good riddence i say!

x

[teonanacatl]

I would think people would inhale more carcinogens sitting around a fire then near a smoker. I think they just need to smoke with vapourises or grow a more potent tobacco so one doesnt need to smoke as much.

[Anodyne]

I can understand the rule in enclosed places or a sports stadium, but parks, car parks, bus shelters etc, I don't understand?

While I don't agree with a ban like this, I do agree that smokers can be fucking rude & oblivious about where their smoke is going. If you don't understand the bus shelter thing, I can tell you a story which might help. About 6 months ago I developed a serious respiratory infection (I don't smoke, by the way). When I breathed you could hear the fluid in my lungs, I'd be out of breath after walking to the bathroom, and I was coughing up all sorts of nasty crap. Anyway, after a couple of days I decided it wasn't getting any better, and that I had to see a doctor. I didn't know anyone with a car & couldn't afford a cab, so I walked the 300 or so metres to the bus stop, having to take rest breaks every 20m (and by "rest breaks" I mean "collapse-from-lack-of-oxygen-coughing-up-my-lungs breaks"), and finally get to the bus stop about 40 minutes later. I should mention that by now it's absolutely pissing down with rain - the gutters are overflowing, and the road, despite being on a slope, is actually flooded with several inches of water. I only mention this to point out that the people waiting for the bus were crammed into the shelter - it was that or get drenched - I didn't even have an umbrella. So I get there & collapse on the ground wheezing for a few minutes. I'm still lying there when 2 women comes out of a nearby office, walk over to the shelter, and light up. I cough at them in utter disbelief, and finally summon the oxygen to ask the nearest one not to smoke here please. There's another sheltered area about 10-15m away, after all. She turns back to her friend to keep talking, totally fucking ignoring me. I'm in a lot of pain from the fluid in my lungs, and sort of lose it at this point. Rather than try to explain about the infection, I simply scream (or try to, anyway) that I'm having an asthma attack and could she please put her fucking cigarette out. They both edge away from me a little, but keep smoking. Thankfully the bus pulled up at this point, so I just spat a chunk of phlegm at her and got on.

I don't agree with simply banning smoking from public areas, but some smokers are very inconsiderate if just left to their own devices. We were allowed to smoke at my highschool, just not around the classroom doors or where people sat to eat their lunch, which I though was pretty fair (and I was a smoker at the time). They even built wet-weather shelters for the smokers so they wouldn't have to hang out on the classroom verandahs when it was raining. I think a set-up like that is pretty good: no smoking anywhere where people have to be near you, basically.

[foolsbreath]

Yeah, thats a pretty extreme situation Anodyne, and I would have hoped people would have been a bit more sympathetic to you

I don't think people should smoke in a crowd, but was more referring to times when people are on their own or actually make efforts to seperate themselves from a crowd, as I see most smokers doing, and I think the ban actually includes 10metres radius from a shelter

I am not a smoker either, and honestly cant remember the last time I was upset by second hand smoke, but my point really has nothing to do with smoking or smokers, but the ease at which peoples liberties and free will can be removed, and that the majority of people are happy with it

Take any example of something you like doing that may have some sort of impact and imagine if it were banned or regulated at such a level smokers are now, where does it stop if people don't make a stand against it

Surely some conflict resolution and negotiation would have been able to provide better alternatives, just as your school did

[Anodyne]

Yeah, I agree, most smokers are fine. Some people are just inconsiderate dickheads in every aspect of their behaviour, including their smoking. I think the ban is ridiculous unless they're also going to ban all the other carcinogens, like car exhaust and barbecued meat and sunlight, as well as things I personally find annoying, like drunks smashing bottles outside my house at 4 am, people who honk their horns at slow drivers while I'm trying to sleep, and couples who shout at each other on buses.

As much as I hate smoking in pubs, I was well pissed off when they banned it (in most areas, anyway). A ban on smoking in open areas like beaches & parks is so much more stupid - the risk from passive smoking has to be pretty minimal in those situations, which just leaves the problem of cigarette butts left on the beach: there are 2 solutions here - either stop selling filtered cigarettes, or just use the existing littering laws to fine people. That way the clean, considerate types aren't punished.

these sorts of ppl fucked it up for the rest of them and that's that i suppose.

So if a bad driver, who just happens to also smoke pot, ran over a kid, and because of him any driver who tested positive for pot on the new Roadside Saliva Test (or whatever they're going to call it) got a mandatory 2 year minimum sentence, would you be ok with that too? (I should clarify that this doesn't test for intoxication or driving capability, simply for the presence of pot in your system) Same situation - a minority of careless dickheads fucking it up for everyone else. It's not fair, and you know it. You can't just fine people for doing stuff you don't like - unless you're Mosman council obviously, but it isn't right, and I really hope Mosman residents & workers get righteously pissed off about this.

and then the others that do smoke in more open spaces just flick their butts where ever they deem suitable, actually no, they would never give it that much thought.

And we have littering laws to deal with that problem, which I think actually incurs a greater fine - $200 or so. So why do we need this too?

[husk]

Ano i suppose yr right, if it gets out of control...

it is certainly possible for laws to get out of control or stupid ones to get passed even but this is a council issue that one would hope is in the best interests for the community. and i, having lived/live there and abouts prolly know the *exact reason they enforced this.

Mosman has a large population of young families and play areas, plus the most beautiful beach in the world (IMHO of course )

so even though it might not sound right it kind of works in the favour of those that cannot help themselves to avoid such hazards.

i guess councils and others can only fuck around for so long making 'idle threats' and trying to fine ppl, (really in that suburb there are bugger all cops anyway) so they do what they think is best to actually 'keep butts of beaches' and create 'smoke free zones' cos lets face it there aren't any anywhere else.

maybe some suburbs could become 'smokeless' and some could not.

preferably the ones that don't can be amongst the heavy traffic and industries so one hardly notices it!?

x peace folks

oh! *shockingly offensive school kids... like loud mouth drunks but at 2pm in the arvo!?

[Anodyne]

maybe some suburbs could become 'smokeless' and some could not.

preferably the ones that don't can be amongst the heavy traffic and industries so one hardly notices it!?

Yeah fantastic! Never mind the low-income non-smokers who can't afford to live anywhere else, huh? People don't live around polluted industrial areas just because they love the smell of sulfur dioxide in the morning, they live there because they can't afford to live in cleaner suburbs, like the North Shore.

so they do what they think is best to actually 'keep butts of beaches' and create 'smoke free zones' cos lets face it there aren't any anywhere else.

What are you talking about? There are plenty of "smoke free zones" - pretty much every enclosed public space is non-smoking. And the places that aren't, like beaches and parks, don't really need to be, as you can get away from any smoke. And yes it sucks when ciggie-butts end up in parks & on beaches, but as I've said, that's covered by the littering fines. So why this too?

[husk]

Yeah fantastic! Never mind the low-income non-smokers who can't afford to live anywhere else, huh? People don't live around polluted industrial areas just because they love the smell of sulfur dioxide in the morning, they live there because they can't afford to live in cleaner suburbs, like the North Shore.

is this a North Shore jab? cos man im so sick of listening to them for like the last 100 years.

i lived there and live further north up there now i'am far from wealthy (HA! far.....far) it is cleaner than, yeah a sulfur dioxide factory, and i'd be against that occuring anywhere too !

'low-income non-smokers'? well i am one of those and i did live near factories on the beaches and in the middle of (the) king st, but no sulphur dioxide fumes (really sorry if u live near them, really!). it was supposed to be a humorous remark, cos yeah i hardly noticed cig smoke when i lived in those places, plus hardly anyone went to any of the parks so butts not so much a problem?

What are you talking about? There are plenty of "smoke free zones" - pretty much every enclosed public space is non-smoking. And the places that aren't, like beaches and parks, don't really need to be, as you can get away from any smoke. And yes it sucks when ciggie-butts end up in parks & on beaches, but as I've said, that's covered by the littering fines. So why this too?

so we all have to hang out in shops and libraries? pubs? you reckon any of them enforce it?

i have NEVER heard of anyone or heard anyone hearing of anyone getting fined for littering EVER!

it may have been ruthlessly enforced for the few weeks after the push began in the 80's(?) but NOONE gives a fuck anymore;

*out of cars, flicked at yr feet, in planters, in bottles and cans so they cannot be recycled, BURIED in beaches, left smoking on the footpath outside the bus stop... and that IS the majority I see everyday cos i cover large distances on foot/train/bus/bike everyday and the only person i have ever seen put there cig in a bin or back in their pack is my sister.

*FACTUAL in my experience in living memory.

councillors would see even less than what i do in relation to smoking and littering and they seem to think this is a good idea too...?

so yeah IN MOSMAN this is a brilliant move (1 little suburb in how many?) majority fucked it up, just like everything else we live with, this is a 'democratic' country is it not? helps more ppl than it hinders and as i said is in one little suburb full of those annoying, self-absorbed rich North Shorians (who cares?), so yeah perhaps encouraging yr smoking friends and strangers to conduct their habits more soundly might help change this sort of move the next time round.

x peace

oh yeah, 'filterless cigs' only? thats not a good move, hard enough convincing ppl it isn't good for you, this would just confuse them!

Edited March 22, 2007 by husk

[SaBReT00tH]

I totally agree on the ban on poisonous smoking, however I know that this is also the beginning of a major clampdown agenda upon civil liberties (part of a global agenda of control) and thus is probably a very bad taste of similar destruction of freedom yet to come just as soon.

[Anodyne]

Husk, I was making an Apocalypse Now reference. Sulfur dioxide is a toxic component of smog - there aren't SO2 factories.

I just mentioned the North Shore because that's the area Mosman is in (isn't it?). You were the one who said how clean and lovely it is. And there are exceptions of course, but in general, the North Shore is a pretty pricey area to live, isn't it?

Sorry if you were just joking - they don't always come across so well on a computer screen.

so we all have to hang out in shops and libraries?

What? No! You've misunderstood me again. I meant that most areas which are enclosed or restricted in some way, where you might be unable to get away from smokers, are already non-smoking, so it's not a problem. And in outdoor areas like beaches and such, you're not forced to be around 2nd-hand smoke, so again, not a problem.

And if the current littering laws aren't enforced, then why not just focus on that?

perhaps encouraging yr smoking friends and strangers to conduct their habits more soundly might help change this sort of move the next time round.

I really doubt that's true - I think this decision has just been made by some angry non-smoking councillors, (rather than any actual data showing that "a majority" of smokers are litterers, as you claim) and if they get away with it it'll likely spread to other suburbs and behaviours, which is what scares me.

[chilli]

Smokers are jokers.

[Rev]

smokers are sociable creatures

its a good idea to ban smoking in most public places

but there needs to be designated smoking areas in the public sphere

it contains the smoke (relatively)

and concentrates the butts in one area

theres no point moralising on smoking. it increases on average the speed at which death comes to you - but not always. and you wont live forever if you dont smoke

blanket bans on behaviour ignore human needs

the majority may rule but it needs to be considerate enought to ensure minority behaviour has its sanctuaries

isnt that why we have parents rooms in shopping centres, licenced premises that serve alcohol and areas for extreme and motor sports.

these all also accomodate self inflicted consequences that also increase rates of morbidity and mortality