legal status of cannabis poll

[gomaos]

the present anti-drug-laws hurt a lot of people, women, men, children, their pets and plants.

Like jews in Nazi-germany, innocent people are busted and punished/incarcerated for harmless things such as growing and using cannabis.

The war on drugs is very expensive and all this money is wasted to fight peaceful citizens whose only crime it is to like cannabis.

this is totally wrong and no doubt one day will be rectified.

That day should come as soon as possible. so here's the poll

[Infinitee]

it would be nice if you stated whether being 'legal' involves taxation, purely government rights to grow, free dispersal to medicinal users etc.

but seeing as no such luck, i'm going to imagine that the government would make it 'legal' like tobacco is, meaning i can't grow it or if i do, it has to be taxed.

if this was the case, that would suck. my garden should be my own business, therefore: decriminalisation.

on this note, i think all plants and animals should be decriminalised, it's a pretty pompous, self-righteous notion to (TRY to) outlaw a living organism in the first place.

[gomaos]

it would be nice if you stated whether being 'legal' involves taxation, purely government rights to grow, free dispersal to medicinal users etc.

good question.

In my opinion "legal" means "totally free' but you have a point re nicotiana....

Ideally "legal" would mean, you could grow as many plants as you want and won't be punished for it....

re nicotiana: anybody who wants to grow it still grows it nobody really cares what the big cigarette concerns say...

haven't heard of a case where someone who grows a tobacco plant has been prosecuted yet.

on the other hand, those people who sell poisonous by-products of tobacco (chop-chop) should not be allowed to do so, because those things are very harmful.

Edited February 20, 2007 by gomaos

[BlackDragon]

Ive been thinking of a postive way to tackle some of the problems with the weed laws here in SA. Ive come up with a tangeable guidelines for personal outdoor and personal indoor cultivation.

Ok, here in SA, you can have: 1 plant outside no worries, $150 on the spot fine, if you pay it no problems.

You cannot have: ANY Indoors. Now if you get caught, with only 1 plant inside, its a court appearance, consequences and record.

Thats not fair, its the same one plant on your property, just a different location. Wheather it be inside or out, its still the same plant.

Now bear with me here, I can hear some saying.. but yeah, indoors hydro grows quicker, makes more money quicker... ra ra rah. It should be illegal. No it shouldnt. Not at all, infact, pot isnt the problem, cash and other drug swaps are the problem. I know that the cops are worried about huge ammounts of cash made from indoor growrooms here in SA, and thats why they made indoor growing illegal here now. No other reason.

If they are really after the big guys, fair enough, thats fine by me. I have a way to seperate us indoor "med/personal smokers/cultivators" from the average cash joe trying to make another 30k a year off pot he doesnt even smoke, let alone respect.

Ok, now onto governing indoor growing. Wattage is the ultimate governing factor regarding yeild, therefore potential yeilds can easily be controlled. Now weed is illegal cash for some, or heaven sent medication for others. By governing the allowance of wattage in the grow area, you can therefore govern the ammount of cannabis grown in that area.

I propose a 800-1200watt limit for personal indoor use/cultivation, anything over that and by all means take them to the cleaners. Comercial cultivation or whatever.

Indoor, 800-1200watts will yeild between 3/4 to 1 1/2 pound, every 12 week cycle. Depending on conditions, genetics etc. If you can squeeze more out the good on you! You will find there will be a threshold that will be reached, genetics will be the only governing factor then, and at around a pound every 12 weeks, thats about 1 and a bit ounces a week, more than enough for most med/personal users.

For some outdoor cultivation is not possible, but cultivation of natures gift indoors is. Why should these people be singled out as criminals? it just doesnt make sense. Thats what happens when people that make laws just dont fully understand the actual workings behind those laws. Ive seen SA go through all the major weed law changes, and this last change is just a joke.

I know my wattage governing idea will work, it has to, there is no other limiting factor. Ill cop a $150 on the spotter for under 1200 watts no worries, cop a criminal record, no thanks!!

Edited February 20, 2007 by BlackDragon

[BlackDragon]

bumping correct thread, dont mind me..

[gomaos]

thanks black dragon for the contribution, a great read, totally agree with you...

[bob-bob]

I think the laws for pot should be loosened, a few plants if you want them.

As with alcohol it should be against the law to drive DUI. Things like that, I'm sure

many people carry a black mark next to them for some stupid minor possessions.

But perhaps with the indoors growing Im not sure as Im not a smoker but I have been

told and seen the effects of hydro on people and I have been told that it is much worse

on people especially those with mental conditions then bush bud due to the additives and

other growing conditions.. But Im not really sure. If people are going to do it it makes sense

to allow the lesser of the evils.

I don't think all plants should be decriminalized, full strength opium poppies

would be fantastic to start a new wave of junkies and gangs trying to control

the flow of opium out of the country to places where the plant is still illegal.

Enforcing the law costs big dollars but so does paying for the negative effects drugs have on

society just as smoking brings the government $$$$$$ it costs the government $$$$$$ to pay

for the effects smoking causes.

But then again I agree if it stays in your garden or home then its your business alone..

Edited February 21, 2007 by bob-bob

[naja naja]

It should be 100% legal, I wanna put that paddock and rotary hoe to good use

Edited February 21, 2007 by naja naja

[Infinitee]

yeah, i'd like hemp legalised and encouraged a year prior to cannabis.

that way i can sow a crop and leave it to decay, so i can grow good cannabis in the soil the year after!

[shruman]

I think we should have the rigt to grow all plants indoor or out.

I think people who have legitimate medical reasons to use the plant should be provided it by the government for the absolute minimal cultivation cost.

I dont see any feasible way the government could tax a plant that u have a right to grow.

[naja naja]

I dont see any feasible way the government could tax a plant that u have a right to grow.

Yeah, thats why it's illegal to even grow ur own tobacco. It's not the cops that have a prob with u growing it, it's the ATO. Now how hypocritical is that! I also saw sumwhere on Seazures of illegal things coming into Australia, tobacco was at the top, way above any illegal drug. I imagine these are sold to the public at ur average retail outlets without anybody ever having a clue.

[shruman]

Totaly agree with u naja, I think taxation is also a major reason why the government is reluctant to decriminalize/legalize cannabis.

[Torsten]

I think it should be legal, but restricted. I really don't like the idea of 13 year old stoners becoming acceptable. There should be an age limit and while I would like to see this at 18, I guess that would be pretty well pointless. So 16 is probably it. Scary thought really, especially if it turns out that pot does cause major brain changes. Then again so does alcohol.

Because of health costs etc I think a taxation portion would be appropriate, but that would bring it in line with tobacco, which is illegal to grow without license in australia. The way other countries deal with this is that 5 plants are acceptable personal tobacco supply, so the same could be done for pot.

What I learnt in amsterdam was that one pot is freely available it loses all of its cool. Most locals simply don't bother smoking it, or when they do it is rather occasional. Kinda like the restrictive australian liquor laws have bred a population of bingers, cannabis restriction means peope often smoke when they don't even really feel like it.

[shruman]

I agree it probly should be restricted somewhat similiar to alcohol, from studies Ive seen cannabis can have a detrimental effect on the developing brain in adolescents at least in animal models, but like alcohol it should be at the discretion of the parent/gaurdians if on their own premises, so people dont fall into the binge attitude that is associated with alcohol, when people have no, to limited experience until there 18 & then go berserk.

[puck]

When governments legislate artificial restrictions, it stops society forming conventions organically. I guess the problem is teens are naturally stupid and liable to do stupid things, so we feel the need to protect them from themselves. Whether it works or not is another matter.

Marijuana and other herbs will settle like snowflakes (after a snowstorm) into their natural place in society when legalised. It'll have its problems - inevitable for a culture as clueless as ours when it comes to psychoactives. But I don't get what the worry and the fuss is about.

It reminds me of food rationing in UK following WWII: the govt just couldn't believe that such a vital and incredibly complex system of agriculture and distribution could function without centralised oversight. Well, guess what - it does. Not only does it work, but it works a hell of a lot better than when the feedback loops are taken out by govt control.

[husk]

you'd have to expect that if you are allowed to grow yr own plants it would alter the market of weed.

but then those bigger dealers who make most of their $ from selling would prolly move to somthn else that is still illegal.

one thing i do wonder about is that the crime would shift from owning and consuming to people commiting theft.

yr less than cooler smokers/consumers would prolly retaliate in the same way dealers do when they're ripped off.

and yeah with hydro its prolly not brilliant to have more of it around.

violence and theft suck but having no freedoms...?

its a tricky one, there will always be agros and abusers no matter what.

x peace

[hairyplant]

see signature:

Edited February 24, 2007 by hairyplant

[gomaos]

but then those bigger dealers who make most of their $ from selling would prolly move to somthn else that is still illegal.

well who cares? Money-hungry gangsters always do that sort of thing, they've been around since the stone age and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Has absolutely nothing to do with cannabis.

one thing i do wonder about is that the crime would shift from owning and consuming to people commiting theft.

I don't get that part. Why should that happen? There's no logical connection...

and yeah with hydro its prolly not brilliant to have more of it around.

More than "zero" wouldn't have to be very much at all.

See what the prohibition has done to me: After abstaining from it for 5 years (not 1 drop of alc in 5 years) I'm now back on the booze.

Why? Because the stupid government has put 100s of millions of dollars into the war against drugs and NO cannabis, hydro or bush, is available.

Consuming alc in stead of cannabis, my life-expectancy would be dramatically cut about 10-20 years.

Alcohol is a killer drug

cannabis is not.

[Infinitee]

True, gomao.

And what's with all this stigma still surrounding hydroponically grown cannabis? Anyone would think people actually listen to the bs the institution spoon-feeds us!

Hydroponics has been around since babylonian times, i think? They didn't die (don't get me started on the mayans) and neither will you if you ingest properly grown hydroponic cannabis. People do grow it improperly and bastarduse a natural product with all sorts of chemical residuals. Smoking this is like drinking fertliser, you wouldn't do it. But for people who need high-grade medical quality cannabis, I think it should be legal (or at least not highly criminal) for them to safely and knowledgably grow their own hydroponic cannabis.

I don't think it's fair to generalise hydro as bad, you might as well start a vendetta against clones or misting the underside of leaves.

As for the moneymakingmafia, i'm sure there's plenty of other illegal substances they can sell and thrive off!

Or perhaps everyone would be satisfied with the abundance of legal/decrim'd cannabis and the black market would dwindle ...

[Conan Troutman]

Thanks to prohibition there has been little to no research into the constituents of hydroponic marijuana or a clear definition of what hydro really is.

Thanks again america!

[husk]

but then those bigger dealers who make most of their $ from selling would prolly move to somthn else that is still illegal.

well who cares? Money-hungry gangsters always do that sort of thing, they've been around since the stone age and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Has absolutely nothing to do with cannabis.

No, well it does have somthn to do with weed cos i stated it in a post about weed so...

it is my opinion i offered not somthn to be contended. take my opinionated posts as rhetoric ok?

one thing i do wonder about is that the crime would shift from owning and consuming to people commiting theft.

I don't get that part. Why should that happen? There's no logical connection...

if u lived in the same areas as i do you'd know.

there are a lot of fuckers that go around ripping off things of value from people's house and yards.

lots of plants mean lots of (unwanted) visitors.

and yeah with hydro its prolly not brilliant to have more of it around.

More than "zero" wouldn't have to be very much at all.

See what the prohibition has done to me: After abstaining from it for 5 years (not 1 drop of alc in 5 years) I'm now back on the booze.

Why? Because the stupid government has put 100s of millions of dollars into the war against drugs and NO cannabis, hydro or bush, is available.

Consuming alc in stead of cannabis, my life-expectancy would be dramatically cut about 10-20 years.

Alcohol is a killer drug

cannabis is not.

well to some death is a far better punishment than mental illness, don't believe it if u don't want to, but PLENTY of my friends have serious problems from smoking SUPER strong weed.

i did too after after a 4 year long battle with dependency. and those of my friends that i attempt to urge to go back and try bush, dont dig it, tolerance is WAY to high and hydro is t o t a l l y different in its desired outcome.

i got violently assaulted by 'stoners' i dealt to after they ripped me off and then refused to even contemplate buying from me again... angry fuckers abound when they don't get there hydge!

shit. too often it happens that some just come on here just to find somthn to argue about? so much for communtiy spirit!

peace gomaos, i'd rather be friends you know...?

and sorry about the alcho habit man, really, i think it is 'orrible stuff, i stopped that for good hope u can work it out!

x

[husk]

p.s. i don't smoke weed anymore, it was a big deal so DON'T ATTACK ME FOR THIS POST ALRIGHT!!?

i do think it is so not the way to go locking people up for having/consuming it...

big dealers are a different story cos a lot of them may resort to weaponry and intimidation to move there all important stock.

but i suppose decriminalising may affect that somewhat.

i do totally believe its a whole different story now than it was 20 to 30 years ago, hydro and chemically induced/laced weed is a real mind fucker.

i can only say this with certainty from years of intense experience.

x peace ppls

[user1]

zero responses for 'remain illegal'. great to see there's no fascists poking their noses in here. It's the most obvious case of double standards and hypocrisy to ban a weed that grows naturally and yet continue to make billions off alcohol and tobacco profits while tens of thousand of people die each year from the use of these substances. Add to that the fact that most of the big drug cartels were set up by western government institutions and intelligence agencies (mainly the US) covertly as a means of funding their little 'black ops'. So they create the problem, it runs out of their control and so their response is war (how unusual). "the war on drugs", what a joke.

I always loved Terence McKenna's quote relating to this: "To me George Bush is a man who if he set his hair on fire he'd try and put it out with a hammer."

[onz]

To me I find marijuana to be the most overly critisized drug in the last however many years. I really dont bother with arguements about it anymore, its not worth the time invested.

The worst withdrawals I ever had was after 3 1/2 months of smoking only organic bush! Long enough time for the 'dreaded hydro' to leave my system. Of course unflushed and chemically enhanced hydro will be much worse for you. But it can't be through potency - Hash has been around for ever. I know the 'stone' from it is different but you can see my point.

a couple of months after that I started smoking again, it was strong hydro. If I had quit (I tried) 6 weeks ago I would have been very angry, very depressed, and relationships with people would have been damaged. However, I quit 2 weeks ago and had very smooth withdrawels. Why? Because of circumstances! The state of mind your in when you quit pot is a massive factor for withdrawels. Pot is unique in this way, when you deny this you guarantee yourself a hard comedown. I've had both terrible terrible comedowns and also reasonably light comedowns. Prepare yourself.

Heres a recommendation. Make sure your healthy, haven't taken any other substances for 3 months before you quit, and have something which reminds you of the beauty and incredible integration of reality whilste coming down. If you love the feeling of pulling a cone as much as I do, acquire yourself a mild relaxing herb to take the edge off. I found David Attenburroughs Private Life of Plants perfect for coming down, it reminded my brain that reality isn't as shit as it may seem. Here is an even greater awe-inspiring production. I did use some codeine and blue water lilly spirits for my first night, and doxylamine the second night to help sleep but thats all. Having something to fall on, such as the codeine lilly combo, takes away the 'fear' of quitting - making that first step easier to take.

Those who get schizophrenia from smoking (a doctor told me when I was 15) pot would have developed it later on in life if they hadn't smoked, marijuana just triggers it. IME other 'mental illness's' developed from pot eventually leave after the usage stops - there are some exceptions, but I don't consider these simply because the are a shitload of people who don't smoke and have major psychological problems. Its a twisted world. But blame avoids self responsibility and therefor inhibits any ability to help ones own mind/situation. I'd like to explain this in great detail but its just too time consuming, sorry, I know I've left out quite a few rebuttles to arguements against what I've said.

Arguemnts/discussion about certain topics is something I usually avoid because I prefer peace and common ground. But this pissed me off a bit and I couldn't resist.

Husk: "well to some death is a far better punishment than mental illness, don't believe it if u don't want to, but PLENTY of my friends have serious problems from smoking SUPER strong weed."

peace

(Any incriminating statements in the above paragraphs are entirely hypothetical)

[stonewolf]

it seems to me like public opinion of the legal status of cannabis is changing. Its a slow and painful task but generation X and Y are both fairly in favour or cannabis reform. I think it will be up the kids born after 2000 to cast the ultimate vote on this one when the older generation finally moves on..so its vital to make sure young children a fed a diet of truthful cannabis information.