Obama Smacks Down Little Johnny

[Machine Elf]

Aw bewm Lil Johnny...

Howard: "I think that will just encourage those who want to completely destabilize and destroy Iraq, and create chaos and a victory for the terrorists to hang on and hope for an Obama victory."

Barack Obama: "If he's ginned up to fight the good fight in Iraq, I would suggest that he call up another 20,000 Australians and send them to Iraq. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of empty rhetoric."

Did Johnny boy feel he had to repay the favour (a US diplomat interfered in the last Australian election, suggesting that a vote for Labor was a vote for the terrorists)? Strange to bring up a subject which is not playing well for him at the moment.

Belf

[apothecary]

I've figured it out.

The basic ploy of these people is that if they say the same thing over and over again, adamant against all opposition, eventually it becomes somehow true to the public.

Johnny just repeating the same crap over and over.

I think the media are hyping Obama which I detest, but I will be happy if he wins.

[Jesus On Peyote]

I dont think obama should win,coz if he or any democrat does win and then pulls outa iraq,the republican bastards will just be saying that the democrats lost the war and thell be in like flin for the next electiions.

Not that that will happen anyways, anyone heard about the new bush law that gives him the right to declare martial law in america if anything "bad" happens (terrorist attack).

Anyone remember how like just a week after 9/11 the US where already getting the population ready for an "inevitable" nuke attack on US soil?? me smells somthing bad on the rise b4 the next election, in the us at least. delivered by the US gov, not terrorists.

Anyway, yea what obama said to john about sending 20,000 of oz troops if he feels so strongly was classic, dumb ass gimp howard.

[nabraxas]

i can't remember if it's on Raw or Delirious but on one ov those videos Eddie Murphy talks abit about Jesse Jackson when he was running for Pres.

He says something about how if Jackson wins he'll have to be constantly on the move, inferring that he would be a prime candidate for assasination.....now that was over 20 years ago, but i wonder if America could realistically have a black president?

[Auxin]

...if he or any democrat does win and then pulls outa iraq,the republican bastards will just be saying that the democrats lost the war and thell be in like flin for the next electiions.

Doesnt matter. The republican party and the democratic party are the same political party working for the same 'special interest groups' (corporations). That single party, lets call them the republocrat regime, hide under a meticulously engeneered illusion of being two parties so they can maintain control of the US under the guise of providing a two party system because they know americans would eventually wake up if they knew that america was in fact a one party system.

Even if you think I'm full of conspiracy theorist shit on that point (which many do ) look at the last two generations worth of american politics, regardless of the majority being republican or democrat the US government commits crimes against humanity across the globe.

And, americans and australians alike, for the love of *insert favored deity* before voting for 'the lesser of two evils' consider that siding with the lesser of two evils is siding with evil. If there is no viable third party candidate who might actually avoid human rights abuses then vote for my favorite candidate...

[Jesus On Peyote]

Nah Auxin i agree with ya,kinda like watching wresting,ya think its real till u get older n relies while the peeps are fighting,backstage their best mates (kinda bad analogy).I recon even if the american people did know, theve been too dumbed down and pussyfied to do anything anyways over the last 50/60 years.n that goes for most "free" and industrialized countries too.

I dont think your crazy

[foolsbreath]

Anyway, yea what obama said to john about sending 20,000 of oz troops if he feels so strongly was classic, dumb ass gimp howard.

I think the problem as other governments see it, is that there have been many country's who have dedicated troops and funding for an american initiated and led invasion

If they are just going to pull out and leave the country in an absolute shambles (far worse than when they decided to step in) governments have a right to get shitty, as america has just wasted all our tax payers money and sent our kids to see the atrocities that they should never have to see all for fuckin squat

No we shouldn't have to send more troops, but America sure as hell should clean up its fuckin mess, I'm with little j on this one!

[Prophet]

This is funny. All puffed up with pride the little weasel faced john howard thinks he can influence the world now. He is such a hypocrite. First he uses the argument that "we don't want to be like america" and "we don't want to go down the american path" to bring in draconian gun laws prohibitting firearm ownership by the general public. And now he is saying we should avoid criticising america and anti-americanism and that american is standing for the free world etc. If john howard hates guns so much why is he sending australia troops to iraq?

[Kenny Blister]

America doesn't go to war to instill democracy. Transnational corporations benefit greatly from wars, including this one, which was not about freedom, but rather profit. Troop morale is low for many reasons, one of which is because many of them spend their time escorting convoys owned by such corporations. Other Governments that got involved have themselves to blame for not seeing through the facade.

I am of the belief that democracy must come from within, not from outside forces. As for reaching some semblance of order in Iraq, we are between a rock and a hard place. The genocide will continue with troops present and will probably continue (maybe worse?) without them. Is the answer in ceasing sectarian violence? How would such a thing come about?

[Auxin]

If they are just going to pull out and leave the country in an absolute shambles (far worse than when they decided to step in) governments have a right to get shitty, as america has just wasted all our tax payers money and sent our kids to see the atrocities that they should never have to see all for fuckin squat

I sympathize for ya being lied to and tricked into jumpin on the wrong bandwagon but it was not america that wasted your tax money or your countrymens lives, australia decided to do it.

I'm not trying to defend america, its no secret how strongly I'm against most the international actions of america, but you cant pawn off responsibility for your own countries actions so easily. The aussie gov kept on with iraq even after knowing how illegal and immoral the whole mess is. And aussie soldiers who knew, or could have known if they had investigated, that they were following illegal orders for an illegal war are every bit as blame worthy as the american troops, aussie gov, or american gov because following an immoral order is immoral and following an illegal order is illegal.

Welcome to the pantheon of oppressors. Pull up a chair between Bush and Mussolini.

[gomaos]

siding with the lesser of two evils is siding with evil.

i'll keep that in mind for the next elections...

[foolsbreath]

I sympathize for ya being lied to and tricked into jumpin on the wrong bandwagon but it was not america that wasted your tax money or your countrymens lives, australia decided to do it.

I'm not trying to defend america, its no secret how strongly I'm against most the international actions of america, but you cant pawn off responsibility for your own countries actions so easily. The aussie gov kept on with iraq even after knowing how illegal and immoral the whole mess is. And aussie soldiers who knew, or could have known if they had investigated, that they were following illegal orders for an illegal war are every bit as blame worthy as the american troops, aussie gov, or american gov because following an immoral order is immoral and following an illegal order is illegal.

Edit: wrapped in quotes

Welcome to the pantheon of oppressors. Pull up a chair between Bush and Mussolini.

Oh, I don't agree with what the liberal govnt here has done, and I dare say the great majority of Australians never wanted any of our troops to 'help' in the conflict, where as, in America there is a great deal more public support for this war, though that may be waining.

Point is other countries were pressured into helping, cause many countries do feel threatened by the american government and the impact of the status of their relationships with America. It isn't the troops fault at all, simply and plainly the governments

The American government knew that Australia several other countries would commit troops at the outset and has therefor a great deal more responsibility in the situation than those who it dragged along. I didn't critisize the war, just the statement made by Obama in relation to pulling out. Pulling out in such a short timeframe would have to cause massive instability in Iraq.

To make a comment along the lines of us commiting 20,000 more troops to show our metal is insulting to the Australian people IMO, considering he wants to pull out almost immediately. I think it shows what respect they have for the coutries willing to help them in the first place.

I don't agree with johnnys statement for the reasons that he said it, but for the reason that ya can't just cruise into a country kick up a shit storm, get everyone involved and then go ah well, shit, not going according to plan, think I'll just leave this one alone now and piss off again. Although it's been done enough times in history, there was all the warnings that this would happen, and the American government refuted them all. America Instigated the action and IMO is obliged to clean up its shit without a presidential candidate making snide little comments about the effort australia is putting into their fight

Nothing against you Auxin or the American public or anyone apart from the Governments involved. I just believe that the American governmnet has a much larger piece of the blame pie. The war would not have began if the American Government didn't start it. What the Australian government and others involved have done in response is stupid and disheartening, but wholly predictable.

Edited February 13, 2007 by foolsbreath

[Kenny Blister]

I agree that the comments by Obama are somewhat snide in that they patronise the contribution/sacrifices that our troops are making on behalf of the American government, but, foolsbreath, do you think we were 'held to ransom' and made to contribute to this war or do you think this was the choice of an egomaniacal PM and his devoted party? I mostly think the latter and feel Howard is as much to blame for what this war has cost this country.

He is lucky that so few Australian troops have died and has escaped a great degree of public outrage that would come from such events. It would make his comments less palatable and a shot at another incumbency a little more difficult.

[foolsbreath]

Definitely the later;) and what makes it worse is the public had no say in the matter. I just feel America holds more blame as it was completely predictable that the Liberal government here would lend support, and therefor America was leading the Australian public into the conflict knowingly, willing or not.

He is lucky that so few Australian troops have died and has escaped a great degree of public outrage that would come from such events. It would make his comments less palatable and a shot at another incumbency a little more difficult.

Damn Straight!

[apothecary]

Australia has volunteered our troops for every major war for as long as we have existed.

Boer War, Boxer Rebellion, WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf 1, Afghanistan, Gulf 2.

None of these wars have concerned Australian people in any direct way except the Japanese in WW2.

It's the same every time, some big shot countries are trying to make a power grab of some sort on an international scale, they always ask the Aussies for help because we have a track record of signing our citizens lives away for fights that aren't ours.

So as usual, the propaganda machine gets fired up, patriotic people get manipulated, and with this public support we go to die for someone else against people who in all probability don't even know who we are.

I mean seriously, Australia is not, and has never been a big player on the international scale. The only pond we are a big fish in is the SE Asia/Pacific region.

As if Osama or Obama could even point out Australia on a map

And before anyone decides to name Indonesia as our local terrorist hotbed, I'd like to point out that it has been claimed numerous times now by ex Indonesian government officials that there is essentially NO terrorist threat, and the Indonesians are keeping up this kind of thing because they recieve such massive amounts of funding from the US and Australia in antiterrorism efforts.

No terrorists = no money.

[Conan Troutman]

america always need a great evil too fight, it helps them to remember how godless the rest of the world is

its now terrorism before that communism...

[apothecary]

Backwards chronologically I think it goes terrorism, drugs, communism, asian immigrants, hispanic people, black people, etc etc.

If you go back far enough, there used to be an America where people used to say things like

"Those who are willing to give up their inalienable rights for temporary security deserve neither"

"The tree of democracy must be watered with the blood of patriots" (and politicians? )

etc etc.

Originally the US was designed as a country where the government was a completely distrusted entity that could be run out of town at the slightest offense. The founding fathers recognised the need for government, but also recognised that corruption was inevitable to those whom are given power.

Now we have career politicians rather than experts in a field who spend a short amount of their life serving the public

There are several incidents where one Congress or another was chased out of town for trying to cheat the people. Wish that kind of thing would still happen.

[Conan Troutman]

Backwards chronologically I think it goes terrorism, drugs, communism, asian immigrants, hispanic people, black people, etc etc.

I think its more like, terrorism, drugs, communism, drugs, asian immigrants, drugs, hispanic people, drugs, black people, etc etc.

[gomaos]

I think its more like, terrorism, drugs, communism, drugs, asian immigrants, drugs, hispanic people, drugs, black people, etc etc.

exactly.

but...

did you mention drugs?

Oh you did...

[Machine Elf]

To make a comment along the lines of us commiting 20,000 more troops to show our metal is insulting to the Australian people IMO, considering he wants to pull out almost immediately. I think it shows what respect they have for the coutries willing to help them in the first place.

I think you'll find it was a rhetorical question - that is, he isn't seriously asking Howard/Australia to add more troops, it was simply a way of calling Johnny's bluff on his statements about the importance of the war and defeating these terrorists. Obama has been against the war from a long way back.

And if people think that it was all the American governments trickery that brought us undone, I'd remind them of the name Andrew Wilkie.

Belf

[DocAzz]

I've got a mate thats in Iraq now.

His brother said before they left (back in '03) they were told, and I quote, to "pack for a holiday" because there is "no WMDs" over there.

That was pretty standard Australia intelligence.. they were getting shipped off for show.

Think about every armed conflict that the USA has been involved in since 1900. America has won everyone, yeh? Thats the impression you get anyway.

The closest they ever got to a victory was the armistice of WWI. If they didn't come in, at the last minute, Germany would have cleaned up.

What happened in WWII? It was Russia that took Berlin, and they then took Poland and another half of Europe!

China kicked the US out in 1947 under communist rule.

Korean war? Well, the Chinese called that "War to resist America, and aid Korea." This ended in an armistice aswell, but the yanks were pushed south by China. This was meant to be a civil war aswell, but the US stepped in, so China thought "well, thats not fair!" and helped out the North...

Vietnam war - ha!

16 years of fighting, to end with the yanks getting pulled off the roof of their embassy by helicopters! With a little country like Vietnam! What a fucking joke that was.

Lebanese civil war... The US sent marines over there to "help out". Too little, too late. Guess what? They pulled out like a guy not wearing a condom.

Somalia - anyone seen Black Hawk Down? That makes light of the fucking distaster they got into over there.

The Yugoslav civil war was a good one too. It got called the Balkan Conflict to downplay what was really going on. The whole area ended in the bloodiest fighting in europe since WWII. The whole place had been reduced to poverty, and is still struggling from it.

This brings us up to the first iraqi war, afghanistan and the current war on terror... we all know what a cock-up each of these are.

It also makes me think about communism - just what part of sharing is so fucking bad? The part about large corporations, and the families behind them, not controlling everything.

[teonanacatl]

The weapons of mass destruction did exist, they are tachyons (weapon of mass destruction like particles), thus they move faster then light so we cant see them :D Or alternatly the US unleashed the weapon of mass destruction that is their own army.

Edited February 15, 2007 by teonanacatl