Auxin Posted October 14, 2002 I'm gonna get some Datura stramonium seeds so I can grow more seeds as trading stock (and I heard it attracts butterflies) and I want to know just how paranoid I should be about its invasive nature. Like how much warning do you have before the seed pods bust open, do its roots run rampant starting babies all over (ie. should I grow it in a elevated pot or in the ground), if it does get out of hand how hard is it to stop? That kind of stuff. Amazingly my state does not have it listed as a noxious weed, so even if it gets out of hand at least they cant fine me 1000 USD. It would however make me VERY unpopular with my neighbors! People in my area are really defensive of the native plant life (even though we are right next to a series of massive high level nuclear waste spills and everything within 100 miles will probably be dead in 50 years!) Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted October 15, 2002 Im fairly certain that it is a coloniser of disturbed sites (waste dumps, overgrazed soils, road verges) and not the kind of plant that takes over climax plant communities. It is probably affected by the whole range of diseases that affect tomatoes so it has a job in taking over. And i believe it is a native of the US, perhaps that is why it is not listed as a noxious weed. It is an annual plant it wont spread by roots.Another US native will, Datura meteloides, but even then i think the cold will kill it that far north. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waterdragon Posted October 15, 2002 there's plenty of warning before the pod bursts. when it splits just slightly at the point then snip it off if you're saving seeds. try doing it to every pod and watch that plant throw some flowers. even if you do miss some seeds and find small plants coming up next season they're easily pulled out - no massive sorrel style taproot to deal with. put it in the ground and give it a top dressing of compost because large showy specimens need good food and water. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 15, 2002 it's a pasture weed. this means that it is not really and environmental weed as it doesn't compete well with other vegetation (hates shade). Farmers (with their destructive grazing animals) will hate you for it. Seedpods can be pruned as soon as the flower falls off which is the safest way. Immature seeds (only about 10% of final size, yellow and soft) CAN germinate. It is EVERYWHERE in the world, so if it isn't a weed in your area yet then it is unlikely to become one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VINS Posted October 15, 2002 hy, i am not sure it is native america. it is a witche plant native europe. here it is really invasive and if it is often near the road or in a likeplace, it is sometime thousands of plants in big area. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted October 16, 2002 I always thought that D stramonium was a native of North America.Thats where it got its name , Jimsonweed, after James town weed, a notorious incident during the american civil war where some soldiers ate it as spinach and went stark raving mad for a few days. But after racking my brains some more i remembered that erroneous report of shakespeare and cocaine, apparently they tested the residues of his pipe and found meteloidine, and wrongly ascribed this to coca by product, when it was most likely Datura stramonium var tatula. Its hard to say whether its european or nth american unless you can find a very early account of it - like 14th century or earlier, as plant species moved back and forth after 1492 very quickly. The only old old references ive found were Arabic and Chinese ones and refer to either Datura metel or ferox i think. There must be something pressed in German.When was the block printing discovered in Europe? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VINS Posted October 18, 2002 now i don't know ! the origine is different in a book to another... before the 14th century, i just remember of the use by Roman and alexander the big. near the caspienne sea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Posted October 18, 2002 "Alexander the big"?No offense Vins,but that is so funny.It should be Alexander the great. [This message has been edited by Andrew (edited 18 October 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waterdragon Posted October 19, 2002 the big wall of china, the big depression, big expectations, bigger celandine. don't make me go on. again, no offense but translations can be such fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted October 19, 2002 I always thought that D stramonium was a native of North America.Thats where it got its name , Jimsonweed, after James town weed, a notorious incident during the american civil war where some soldiers ate it as spinach and went stark raving mad for a few days. Hahahaha.... serves them right: being soldiers running around killing people. Perhaps it opened the eyes of some to the more important truths in life.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted October 19, 2002 Originally posted by waterdragon: the big wall of... Someone should warn you VIN'S... this is an Australian forum. If ppl thought you'd be offended they wouldn't have made fun of what you said. It may look impolite, but that's cos we like you. I'd say taking the piss is a national past time, but I'm not sure how to translate that into French, if anyone can find a more grammatically correct phrase please supply it for me? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VINS Posted October 19, 2002 huummm !!! OK, OK, i will come back to sckool !!! (and this time i will try to not sleep) anyway, definitly no matter ! joke are always welcome. we are not here to be sad. maybe it is the good time to explain to all the sab communauty: i don't speak well english and have often some misunderstanding problems. langage is a complex thing and i am sure you can understand if you ever try to speak french. i really do my best but botanical discussion are often hards.(is there a lot of people who can speak about plant in two langage here?....)please, use your imagination to understand what i mean. you're always welcome to teach me; say it to me when i don't use the good words . Rev, the french phrase to say "taking the piss is a national pass time" is : "la raillerie est notre passe temps national favoris" soon (on a french forum!for revenge) Ciao Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted October 19, 2002 only french i know is "voulez-vous couche avec moi" don't know how to spell it but.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted October 19, 2002 hi, thats what i read in books (dont ask for ref.) datura seeds where used to poison big armies.mixed with bean meals. different spp. are nativ to south america europe, prop. more i am an amateur plant enthusiast. its could spread wild some daturas are growing here since settlers came... dont make us plantlovers a bad name by creating a foreign pest like the carp. confused, so u should be! bye Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted October 19, 2002 "I always thought that D stramonium was a native of North America."- reville Thats not how things work over here. Each state has its own noxious weed list, so a plant native to Texas, or Georgia, or wherever could be a class A noxious weed in Washington. Any Class A noxious weed in the state of Wa: 1st offense within five years $ 750 2nd and any subsequent offense $1,000 USD of course. Thats why I had to check the state weed list. Now I just have to figure out how to keep my cat out of the Datura patch. Shes already half insane and hyper-agressive (she draws blood when happy and specifically targets major veins and arteries when mad, I dont want her tripping! !) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted October 20, 2002 Sorry Vins. the post wasnt actually by me! i know the french have a sense of humour - how else could they have the brits as neighbours Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted October 20, 2002 Originally posted by planthelper:t. its could spread wild some daturas are growing here since settlers came... There is a native Datura in queensland perhaps you could help us find it Datura leichhardtii from south west queensland Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 20, 2002 hey rev & darklight...... while you two are sharing the same computer (and whatever else ), maybe you should at least sign your posts so that we all know who we are talking to, as the cookies obviously keep getting you two mixed up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted October 20, 2002 Vin's, most Aussies make fun of other languages because most of them only know English (and that not very well ) Just ask on these forums how many studied french at school and don't remember ANYTHING (like me). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VINS Posted October 20, 2002 Torsten, really no matter !!! Gomaos, your are a true romantic ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VINS Posted October 20, 2002 also really sorry to Auxin ! because i suppose he receved a e-mail every time we are talking, and it is now not about datura.... sorry for all this chitchat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auxin Posted October 20, 2002 Dont worry, these posts are not being emailed to me. Chat on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted October 21, 2002 Originally posted by Torsten:hey rev & darklight...... while you two are sharing the same computer (and whatever else aha. I wouldnt share my girlfriend with anyone..even darklight. good idea to sign posts just in case. will do R Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
