mr b.caapi Posted September 19, 2006 (edited) what p.somniferum variety contains the strongest alkaloid yields?? Edited September 19, 2006 by mr b.caapi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sobriquet Posted September 19, 2006 what p.somniferum variety contains the strongest alkaloid yields?? Tasmanian is the anecdotal winner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PD. Posted September 19, 2006 Tasmanian is the anecdotal winner. I second that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sobriquet Posted September 20, 2006 Basically though, all P. somniferum will produce what you're after and even the Tasmanian can have lousy yields if they are not cultivated or harvested properly. The reason why they are considered highly is that they are bred and selected specifically for high alkaloid content. Other varieties that can yield well and are highly esteemed are "Hen and chicks", "Giganteum" (the Turkish giant poppy), "Red ruby" (a red poppy with dark purple bases). All can yield well though if looked after. The keys to maximising yields is to ensure good conditions that promote high vegetative growth so you have bigger plants going to flower. Next most important is harvesting at the right time, and this requires some skill to determine but as a rough guide 10-14 days after the petals drop (during which you do not water the plants) is the peak alkaloid period. Good luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pisgah Posted September 21, 2006 I would have agreed with the Tasmanian as the strongest, until I grew the Afghan white and pink lacinatum petal strain. Significantly more pleasant right out of the pod. My guess from bioassay is that the M content is significantly higher in the profile, which would make sense given its' commercial application for H production. I have not done any quantitative analysis however. Merely extensive bioassay. It is the only strain I am going to grow this coming season. And I have grown them all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PD. Posted September 21, 2006 What is the strain in your avatar Pisgah? It looks identical to the tassie strain my friends nanna grew last season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sobriquet Posted September 21, 2006 I would have agreed with the Tasmanian as the strongest, until I grew the Afghan white and pink lacinatum petal strain.Significantly more pleasant right out of the pod. My guess from bioassay is that the M content is significantly higher in the profile, which would make sense given its' commercial application for H production. I have not done any quantitative analysis however. Merely extensive bioassay. It is the only strain I am going to grow this coming season. And I have grown them all. One can only hope that your Afghan strain somehow appears on these shores. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted September 21, 2006 A FOAF told me about the bulk seed packs available *still* from indian food wholesalers less than $3 for big packs. all viable white seed with odd brown and red seeds light green plants with these sorts of flowers latex pink straight after petal drop, white and copious thereafter latex eaten straight off 2 pods was noticeably euphoric thats all details shared. at least peeps arent lmited to modern 'norman' strain tassie seeds Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr b.caapi Posted September 21, 2006 ok , and what state are these "indian food-wholesalers" situated ?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sobriquet Posted September 21, 2006 A FOAF told me about the bulk seed packs available *still* from indian food wholesalers less than $3 for big packs. all viable white seed with odd brown and red seeds A while back afoaf grew these Indian white poppy seeds and found that the flowers were uniformly white and the plants matured earlier than Tasmanians with fewer flowers per plant. Quality of the milk was apparently only average but plentiful. I believe these seeds are merely the seed of the Indian poppy crop grown traditionally as the world's legal source of opium. Seeds look like this: Unfortunately the colour of the seeds don't correspond strongly with flower colour. Maybe the delicatessen or shop involved matters ie. Afghani / Pakistani shops may be different source to Indian. Will pass this info on to relevant person and he may have to trial some more white seeds from different "Indian" sources and assess results. Thanks for the tip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted September 21, 2006 a foaf said, it very much depends on growing conditions. He accidentally dropped a few (no name, "woolies") poppy seeds in a huge flower pot filled with real premium potting mix, watered daily with some fertilizer, and , wow, what a huge plant... (maybe not as big as the ones in tasmania, but a real good looker)... and foaf is quite sure, the potency will be good too... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted September 21, 2006 (edited) all states ive been in not as common as they once were but still about quite abundant in SE qld in particular there are significant differences in the seed colours of diff batches , from pure white/cream, through various proportions of red, brown and black seeds in the mix. side by side diff seed btaches are very obviously from diff sources / varieties A book on the matter indicates that india has many many landraces and varieties of poppy from which seed and opium are collected. No doubt with enough sampling youll get many of them some are better for opium and others for seed, but seed is collected from all as part of the harvest and woudl enter the marketplace The FOAF tells me they have grown out several flower types too pure whites, single ruffles, and this two tone pink one. Remember India and Turkey produce 80% of the worlds legal opium you used to be able to buy turkish seed too - it was blue grey but i havent seen that in years now i gues the whites might slip by in mixed shipmnets unnoticed or ignored??? just like Ephedra sinesisis still makes it to chinese herbalists personally my fave use for poppy seed is to roll salmon cutlets in before pan frying and dressing with the juice of a fresh sweet orange Edited September 21, 2006 by Rev Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted September 21, 2006 on that culinary note i have to go ingredients shopping tomorrow il get some extra seed. PM me if you need any as i said they are dcent bags and im sure they are less than $3 - or near it anyway on a first come basis and for eating only of course Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
transDiMenTional Posted September 21, 2006 What of the white poppy seed available at my local store? are they pap som as well? They have bags labelled blue poppy seed and white poppy seed. I thought that pap som seed is always blue but now i wonder about the white ones. man im tired.. does that make anuy sense?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pagan Posted September 22, 2006 (edited) cc Edited October 3, 2006 by Pagan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pisgah Posted September 22, 2006 What is the strain in your avatar Pisgah? It looks identical to the tassie strain my friends nanna grew last season. My avatar is tassie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pisgah Posted September 22, 2006 One can only hope that your Afghan strain somehow appears on these shores. PM me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pisgah Posted September 22, 2006 white seed with odd brown and red seedslight green plants with these sorts of flowers latex pink straight after petal drop, white and copious thereafter latex eaten straight off 2 pods was noticeably euphoric thats all details shared. at least peeps arent lmited to modern 'norman' strain tassie seeds Looks like the heavy business Rev. Right kind of flower. The old man in the pic knows his stuff... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
transDiMenTional Posted September 22, 2006 JJ Torsten seems to a tad busy at the moment. Thought you might know if the Black food grade Papaver Somniferum are for growing or consuming. Cheers mate. ok i can field that one... Growing papaver somniferum in australia is illegal so yes these seeds are for consumption only.. they are likely viable tho so be careful that u dont accidently spill any in ur garden ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DreamingNagual Posted September 22, 2006 Sorry to Hijack, Gomaos can you PM me if possible Sorry again, Cheers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plastid Posted September 22, 2006 The bluish seeds sold under the Masterfoods brand in Coles last year apparently give flowers just like Pisgah's avatar. Have also seen them described as amethyst variety. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hebrew Posted September 22, 2006 The bluish seeds sold under the Masterfoods brand in Coles last year apparently give flowers just like Pisgah's avatar. Have also seen them described as amethyst variety. i thought they were known as tazmanians? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sobriquet Posted September 23, 2006 The bluish seeds sold under the Masterfoods brand in Coles last year apparently give flowers just like Pisgah's avatar. Have also seen them described as amethyst variety. The Tasmanian and Dutch commercial flowers look very similar and I would reckon are from the same original progenitor. The Dutch P. somniferum grows well in the rather wet and colder climate and Tasmania has a similar sort of climate. The Tasmanian seed grown for morphine (as opposed to the predominantly thebaine type "Norman" strain) probably isn't all too different from the standard Dutch variety except for climatic adaptation and selection for high morphine. I'm not sure where the original Tasmanian seed came from but if I had to guess it would be the Dutch stock which they appear very similar to. It could be the other way around also but given that P. somni is an introduced species in Tassie, and commercial production is only recent ie. since the 1970's I'd bet it's a Dutch import originally. Here's an image "Fogle" from the poppies.org site has posted of a commercial Dutch field. from: http://forum.poppies.org/index.php?showtop...46&hl=Dutch The features of the Dutch poppy are: 1. Tolerates colder climates better. 2. Not GM - whereas Tasmanians are almost certainly at least with the Norman strain. 3. Mediocre alkaloid yield, but would be no worse than an average strain especially if given the right growing conditions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sobriquet Posted September 23, 2006 Looks like the heavy business Rev. Right kind of flower. The old man in the pic knows his stuff... I think this is quite right. While I think any poppy variety can give you high yields of alkaloids if you consistently select for it in your growing program, with the Afghan poppy this has been done for you! Experienced growers who are trying to maximise opium production, flow, as well as high alkaloid quality have been selecting seed from their best pods for many seasons on end. So it stands to reason that if there is going to be one best variety for growing for the small time poppy grower, it would be the Afghan. The result of years of selection for high alkaloid and opium yield. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PD. Posted September 23, 2006 The tas and dutch certainly do look similar, here is a pic of a friends tassie strain grown as a winter display. This is NOT the "norman" strain, but the original. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites