Shroom-huasca

[naja naja]

Just been contemplating this for a while. I'm guessing it would be aggreeable. After all, it's only an additional 4-HO in the mix.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

Me thinks that it would perhaps prolong the effect and/or increase the effects. Most likely, even alter them. Thinking 100mg b-CARBOLINE + 15-20mg of 4-HO-DMT.

Suggestions and comments much appreciated.

Cheers all

Naja

Edited September 16, 2006 by naja naja

[Torsten]

can't comment on the amounts as it's too long ago, but can definitely agree that this is a wortwhile adventure.

there is some potentiation of the biogenic amines, but there are also a few miscellaneous tryptamines in the shrooms that add to the effect.

[naja naja]

Sweet.

Any1 else got stories? or need their vines trimmed back. lol

[Dirty Old Man]

Never tried shrooms with caapi but I know someone who had shrooms with syrian rue on two occasions.

Both trips were very pleasant. They involved roughly 4 grams powdered rue as a tea half an hour before having 2.5 grams dried cubensis. There was a bit of potentiation but nothing mind blowing. Probably similar intensity to 3.5 grams. Closed eye visuals were superb. They formed really well organised lattice like structures that persisted for a while rather than a flood of ever changing visuals. My friend said that the trip had a more sedated feel to it compared to most other mushroom experiences.

[The Dude]

I had a very stupid friend that took an excessive dose of syrian rue and then followed that with a nice piece of paper and about 3g of cubes. Don't know the dose of syrian rue, but it was at the point where visual tracers were VERY prominent and quite disorienting. Bad food combinations required a long stagger over rough terrain over to the dunny. The rue was very intoxicating, somewhat like being VERY drunk, but without the stomache spinny, just the head spinny. Pretty much lay incapacitated the whole time, But the visuals were... it was very nice. Yeah, definitely up there.

[toby]

Tends to be nicer overall without a big bump at the start..

found 1.5g rue + 1.5g cube to be effective! so definite potentiation, even with sub doses of both..

3 x '00' gel caps of both, so may have been a little heavier than above..

[alkatrope]

Definately something I plan to test on my hamsters in future..

[Rev]

its a qualtitatively diff exp. and well worth it

but dont undersetimate the potential to put u on ur arse

[NeuroPharmer]

Is 4+ grams of shrooms (either cubes or that sub-terranian variety, dried) with one teaspoon Syrian Rue (boiled in lemon juice & water for 15min) too much???

Purely hypothetical of course, but very curious nonetheless.

Cheers,

NP

[transDiMenTional]

how long is a piece of string??

i would expect 4g of subs + maoi to be a bit much for most and i know that 4g of any even w/out maoi is FAR too much for me!

So moral is learn your own limits first without the maoi and then prob have half that amount

[NeuroPharmer]

how long is a piece of string??

i would expect 4g of subs + maoi to be a bit much for most and i know that 4g of any even w/out maoi is FAR too much for me!

So moral is learn your own limits first without the maoi and then prob have half that amount

Well say I hypothetically had 5g of these things by themselves and found bugger-all effect... maybe resistive neurochemistry or something. I guess I should phrase my question better: is 4g plus light harmala potentiation categorically a crazy large dose? Do people frequently do this without overwhelming/qualitatively unpleasant results?

Thanks,

NP

[NeuroPharmer]

I should add that the desried effect is profound consciousness shift, full immersion: not a recreational dose, and not expecting to be moving around/interacting with people.

I would just (again hypothetically) be worried about the experience going pear-shaped due to an overwhelming, disorienting, negative experience.

Hmmm... clear as mud eh?

I've read that MAO inhibition kills off the euphoria... which to me would seem to invite disphoria... is this the case?

NP

[occidentalis]

Subs can be 3 times more potent than cubes, so be very careful. Generally it is assumed that potency will increase by 2-3 times when using MAOIs.

A 5 gram dose of cubes (good material) should definitely do the full-immersion trick and shouldn't require any MAOI. Similarly 2-3 g of subs.

[NeuroPharmer]

Subs can be 3 times more potent than cubes, so be very careful. Generally it is assumed that potency will increase by 2-3 times when using MAOIs.

A 5 gram dose of cubes (good material) should definitely do the full-immersion trick and shouldn't require any MAOI. Similarly 2-3 g of subs.

This is what I've always expected, but have consistently been disappointed. Maybe ingestion method is to blame? Maybe chewing them (always dry) and holding them in the mouth for 5-10min isn't enough? Maybe 15min? (bleh)

And when i say disappointed, I mean sub-threshold effects that go away after an hour.

Once on 3g dry cubes and 2g Syrian Rue, there were these buzzing/thrumming flashes, that felt like they were getting stronger... but then nothing.

Maybe dodgy material is the simplest explaination???

[occidentalis]

Maybe ingestion method is to blame? Maybe chewing them (always dry) and holding them in the mouth for 5-10min isn't enough? Maybe 15min? (bleh)

Nah shouldn't be necessary - people take them in capsules. Oral absorbtion doesn't seem to be important.

Once on 3g dry cubes and 2g Syrian Rue, there were these buzzing/thrumming flashes, that felt like they were getting stronger... but then nothing.

Maybe dodgy material is the simplest explaination???

That combination should be enough to send most people into hyperspace. Have you used other drugs? DMT, other tryptamines, or pheneths? What has your response been to these? Unless your material is particularly crappy it would seem that you have a very high tolerance.

[gerbil]

Creach's advice is good.

Hypothetically, are you talking about wild cubensis? Maybe it's lack of potency?

Numbers are pretty irrelevant for people as we all differ, but I highly recommend getting used to the mushroom experience itself before MAOI.

It's always good to get a batch from the same source and be able to mill it all to a homogenous mix so doses are standarised, that way you can establish a personal dose for that given material with the mushroom itself...then it can be altered responsibly with MAOI.

So you are chewing and holding the mushroom in your mouth?

Ever made an acidic tea?

Grind up dry material into powder / chunks...try for a homogenous mix.

Squeeze 1/2 or more (depending on personal pref) of a fresh lemon on top of the material.

Add sufficient water to cover and make a tea from slightly cooled boiling water, again this is personal pref...can be a small mouthfull to a large cup.

Let steep for 15-20mins, then down in one go or over a small period of time (5 min) material and liquid.

[apothecary]

Hold on, just for confirmation...

NeuroPharmer did you mean sclerotia or subaeruginosa when you said subterranean.

[NeuroPharmer]

Thanks for the replies...

Yes, where legal I had used LSD a number of times... profound efffects from one blotter (nothing uncomfortable with two tabs, even tried three once without serious incident) - all from the same sheet/batch.

Gerbil: No, I'm hypothetically talking about cultivated mushrooms, whether the cubes or the subterrarean variety - which brings me to,

Apothecary: Embarrasingly I don't know which species. Weird, hard, knobbly things (when dry) with a tang like nothing else if that helps.

Oh yeah, Gerbil, haven't tried tea, seems less efficient than sub-lingual by all accounts that I've heard/read. Unfortunately have never had enough at one time to powder and homogenize.

Thanks guys,

NP

[apothecary]

Yeah. sclerotia...lol...all the above advice is good, but applies to the native Psilocybe species subaeruginosa, which is completely different in alkaloid makeup and much more potent.

gerbil is right about numbers but I can tell you that 4-5g of sclerotia probably ain't gonna be a full on dose

[gerbil]

ah so not P. subaeruginosa...you're talking about sclerotia more than likely P. mexicana or P. tampanensis

With my understanding, tea should be by far the most efficient way to administer dry mushroom.

You are extracting alkaloidal citrate salts into an aqeuous solution with is absorbed quickly, then metabolising the mushroom material as well, with any alkaloids left in that.

edit:

Interesting what you say about sclerotia apoth! Hypothetically and in general terms, would you think maybe 8g dry sclerotia equiv to 3g subs?

Edited September 22, 2006 by gerbil

[NeuroPharmer]

gerbil is right about numbers but I can tell you that 4-5g of sclerotia probably ain't gonna be a full on dose

Yeah, I'd heard that 'it takes a little more of these'... with the different alkaloid profile, is MAO inhibition still going to have pretty much the same effect as it does on cubes?

[NeuroPharmer]

ah so not P. subaeruginosa...you're talking about sclerotia more than likely P. mexicana or P. tampanensis

With my understanding, tea should be by far the most efficient way to administer dry mushroom.

You are extracting alkaloidal citrate salts into an aqeuous solution with is absorbed quickly, then metabolising the mushroom material as well, with any alkaloids left in that.

But then there's the old paranoia about destruction by heat... in any case, I'm writing down your suggestion and may well go with it... not at all sure what I'd do at this stage

Edited September 22, 2006 by NeuroPharmer

[gerbil]

Some people do...but IMO don't boil them!

Maybe use warm water then? You don't want to scald them, just warm enough to make it an efficient extraction/steeping.

Boil the kettle, wait 5 minutes for it to cool then add to the lemon/material. Heat degradation shouldn't be an issue.

If you pour hot/warm water in and can't comfortably stick your finger in it straight away, then maybe it's too hot.

I don't know the temperature at which degradation occurs, but this should keep you on the safe side.

Edited September 22, 2006 by gerbil

[cisumevil]

I have 1 teaspoon of pan cyans with honey and I'm on the moon!

Edited September 22, 2006 by cisumevil

[coin]

regarding teas & boiling - i used to be a bit concerned with it also -- but i did some very unscientific tests ;) and found that a gentle simmer for 5 minutes certainly did not reduce the potency of tea (these things are hard to measure, i know) using the same batch of broken up shrooms (ie a homogenous material of known potency ... don't make a fine powder for tea - it's more difficult to filter and make the decoction -- this is true of any decoction). ..i really do think, if anything, it was stronger when simmering. filter through triple layer of muslin/cheese cloth (lincraft ) and squeeze out all the liquid.

after you make tea, you can infuse shrooms again and get another active tea...but if you simmered initially, a tea made from the remains was fairly weak ...i believe this was due to a more efficient extraction the first time around. if you use just warm water, you'll probably be able to make 3-4 active infusions! i did prefer to never ingest the soggy shrooms - just leads to more digestive upset, plus it's foul. tea with fennel & cardamom was great because of carminative action ..use a very small amount of fresh ginger if tolerable, or use a nice chai teabag

what im saying is heat isnt such an enemy as most ppl think imho. you probably just don't want a full rolling boil for 10 minutes or anything like that

wait 5 minutes to cool boiled water?? by the time water has boiled in a kettle and kettle clicks off (which is usually before a full rolling boil) and then goes into a ceramic mug, the temp drops probably around 15-20 C pretty quickly... i really don't think you need to worry about scalding in that case also juice of 1/2 a lemon seems excessive and may also noticably disturb the stomach for many ppl.. 1 tsp of juice is probably sufficient ?

the main problem i found with tea was that the come-up was far too fast & disorienting...of course you can sip it slowly over a longer period of time, but i was never tempted to do so because i wasn't so keen on the taste. the more intoxicated i'd get the more repulsive/intolerable the tea became (because the senses become so amplified) .. divided doses were the best way to go ... eg if total volume of tea was 200ml, split it in three doses taken 10 mins apart or something like that. and on the contrary, i had some very odd experiences from trying to compact too much powder into gel caps -- it would take too long to come up and hours to come on fully which was very annoying and kind of weird (it would just drag on and on and never really go anywhere) ...this was probably compounded by the fact that it was always on an empty stomach because i always had to skip a meal when tripping to feel physically comfortable.

Edited September 22, 2006 by coin