eccles Posted July 26, 2002 I have recently been wondering about this interesting plant... can anyone tell me anything about the conditions it likes to grow in? how it likes to be treated etc? ie tips for growing it in our climate. I'd be very interested to learn more about it. thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fractalhead Posted July 26, 2002 Ummmm.... does this mean you have some possible way of obtaining propagation material???? How to get this is probably the first question i would ask. ;-) I'll let you all know if i find out... ....one day. [This message has been edited by Fractalhead (edited 26 July 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tripitaka Posted July 27, 2002 This and Diplopterys Carberena are the holy grail of entheogens as far as I am concerned. Availabilty would make manifest my dreams, I knew that I was putting it out there, but can this be true 50% closer to realisation. Soon I tell myself, soon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted July 27, 2002 and Lagochilus and Damiana and Anadanthera peregrina and Virola and Methysticodendrom amnesianum and Bekaro and Pituri from SW Qld and Da Da and griffonia and High harmala Tribulus and Psilocybe mairei and all tose funky things from madagascar and New guinea phew. one hit at a time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted July 27, 2002 Originally posted by reville: Damiana I know where to get this overseas and am working on a legal import. Anadanthera peregrina have about 20 seedlings right now Methysticodendrom amnesianum Have an overseas source, but impossible to get AQIS permit griffonia someone is workign hard on that one. funky things from madagascar I would love Catharanthus lanceatus..... I even have the coordinates of where it grows.... As for Erythroxylum, eccles, don't bother going for the E.coca, as this would eb almost impossible to grow here. E.novogranatense would be much more forgiving in regards to climate and minerals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waterdragon Posted July 27, 2002 e.coca has made it into sydney once upon a time but the plant became greenly challenged. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eccles Posted July 27, 2002 you mean it went yellow??? what happened next?? did it die? :/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squiresk Posted July 28, 2002 I think he meant it contracted a human induced defoliaging syndrome. k. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted July 28, 2002 WD, are you sure it was coca?? I am pretty sure this species is NOT in australia. There are plenty of novogranatense and they look the same and 'taste' the same. And no, I don't have any. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waterdragon Posted July 29, 2002 the person in question swore it was the genuine article but it became deceased. i often wonder if perhaps some of new zealands high country would be kinder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theobromos Posted July 31, 2002 I can't remember posting this here so here is an interesting snippett or two from the US Government: Mary C. Acock et al Annals of Botany (1996) 78; 49-53 The most important bit was that plenty of cocaine, 0.6-1.22%, was produced by both E. coca and E. novogranatense at about 22 metres (72 feet) above sea-level. These two species they referred to as Coca and Novo, respectively. There is a native name for Novo but I forget it. Produced at some USDA/ARS laboratories at Beltsville, Maryland. I looked this up and it seems to be at an average of 22 metres above sea-level and is close to the coast. They don't quite say they raised them at their own laboratories but give the latitude at which they were grown, the latitude of Beltsville is the 39ºN they quote. The compost was a mixture of greenhouse potting media (sandy loam) and Promix BX (not a Govt endorsement, they say) 7:3 by volume. pH 6.1, 4.7% organic matter. Water as needed. Fed 125 ml of Peters soluble fertiliser (N:P:K = 20:8.7:16.6) at an N conc of 500 mg l¯¹ every fourth watering [surely continuous feed is generally better?]. Novo, they said, is clearly the more vegetatively vigorous of the two, outproducing Coca by 118%. It also preferred high light levels, confirming the previous reports that Coca was a shade-lover but Novo was a full sun plant. For both it was said that temperature over 35ºC retarded growth in previous reports and the plants they had on a day/night cycle of 35ºC/31ºC in this study failed. Previous reports had said that temps going under 10ºC also retarded growth. The optimum temperatures for production were 30ºC/26ºC for both species. The optimum Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density was 250 µmol m¯² s¯¹ for Coca and 400 µmol m¯² s¯¹ for Novo. This was in the second year, they were greenhouse-grown for the first year then transferred to growth chambers with cool white fluorescents. They were given a 12 hour cycle for light/dark, but the first 90 minutes were spent fading in and the last 90 minutes were fading out to simulate outside light conditions (presumably in Northern Peru). Humidity was controlled to a vapour pressure deficit of 1.13 kPa. Their second harvest of leaf was after 19.5 months from seed. The young leaf was said to be low concentration compared to the mature leaf. The bench space required in the growth chamber for nine plants was 0.9 x 0.75 m. Headspace was not given. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murple Posted August 4, 2002 There is a common misconception that coca is grown high in the Andes. The truth is, most coca is grown quite far down the mountains. It's not grown on the high slopes, but down in the low valleys and foothills. When I was in Bolivia, all the coca plants I saw were down at around 500-1500 meters. The only coca plants I saw up in the highlands were in a museum in La Paz (around 3500 meters). I didn't see *any* coca plants higher up on the Altiplano. Not a whole lot of anything grows up on the Altiplano, least of all coca. I doubt coca would even survive the climate up there. The idea that coca needs extreme altitudes to grow is totally wrong. I'm not sure about Australia, but here in the US... I suspect that coca would grow amazingly well in much of California. The altitude and climate of the hills in southern California are damn similar to the Yungas regions where it's native. I suspect that coca would also grow really well in any Mediterranean type climate with hills of at least a few hundred meters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eccles Posted August 4, 2002 thanks for that info murple! hey was it you who wrote an article that I read about visiting south america and encountering coca, drinking coca tea, chewing coca leaves, and posting yourself some leaves? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theobromos Posted August 9, 2002 Do I get a thankyou for posting exact scientific information on cultivation requirements and a bit of detective work on my part? I would think that with only a few plants to start with it would be best to cultivate indoors where the perfect conditions could be maintained and growth maximised. As the plants suffer from temperatures of 10 degrees C or above 35 I would be loath to plant outside anywhere. But I have no love for coca, my Holy Grail would be Lancea tibetica. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darklight Posted August 9, 2002 Originally posted by theobromos:Do I get a thankyou for posting exact scientific information on cultivation requirements and a bit of detective work on my part? Who could fail to appreciate you, prec But I have no love for coca, my Holy Grail would be Lancea tibetica Are you being obscure or should I check the search engine...I'll check the search engine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tripitaka Posted August 9, 2002 Lancea Tibetica Beautiful flower theobromas.....intrigued tell us more!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DazedSol Posted August 9, 2002 What is so special about Lancea tibetica? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theobromos Posted August 10, 2002 Isn't it pretty? It is special because I haven't tried it and don't know where to get it short of a holiday in the Himalayas. It is one of the less lethal "narcotics" that have been reported to be used by Tibetans to help pass those tedious winters. The more desirable plant for chewing and cultivation is E. novogranatense, mostly from Peru and Colombia. The Bolivian plants, while the species is more famous, are better for industrial preparation of cocaine, by preparing the ecgonines and semisynthesis. If anyone wants to spend some time and effort on introducing this plant to new areas it would be best to find the E. novogranatense. How is the political situation in Peru nowadays? I tried to read murple's article at Erowid but his ego got in the way. I find it disturbing that someone could describe their two week holiday in Bolivia as "epic". He really should re-read Homer's account of Odysseus' ten year journey of return from Troy if he has forgotten the meaning of "epic". Anyone who wants to know about the botany and use of coca should read E. Wade Davis' account of his travels in this region in "One River". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted August 10, 2002 search engine brings up this place in Beijing. http://www.plantideas.com/kaichen02.htm but they don't seem to have it at the moment. Maybe e-mail them - they look very cheap. [email protected] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murple Posted August 12, 2002 > The more desirable plant for chewing and > cultivation is E. novogranatense, mostly from > Peru and Colombia. The Bolivian plants, while > the species is more famous, are better for > industrial preparation of cocaine You are pretty misinformed. A huge percentage of the plants grown in Peru and even more of those grown in Colombia are E. coca, which is quite acceptable for chewing. Also, what do you mean by "Bolivian plants"? Are you aware of the huge regional differences? This is a country about the size of NSW that covers ecologies ranging from tropical rainforests to glaciers. Most of the coca grown in Bolivia is for chewing, and some of the Bolivian coca - particularly that of the Yungas - is considered some of the finest chewing coca in the world. In fact, the coca which is grown for making cocaine is almost exclusively limited to the Chapare region. The Chapare coca is quite different from Yungas coca. To say that Bolivian coca is all the same is about as silly as saying that German beer is all the same just because it comes from the same country. > I find it disturbing that someone could > describe their two week holiday in Bolivia > as "epic". And you've spent how much time in Bolivia? Next time you've been on a "holiday" that involves earthquakes, nationwide blockades, traveling down the world's deadliest road, and having rebels hurling boulders at you... well, then we can take up the issue of what constitutes "epic." [This message has been edited by Murple (edited 12 August 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theobromos Posted August 13, 2002 I am pretty but not misinformed. The Trujillo coca from Peru has always been considered the best for chewing. I did not say E. coca is not chewed but that it is less desirable. E. coca is very active but not considered the best by connoisseurs. Nor did I say that Bolivian coca is all the same. Nor did I say that E. coca is not found in Peru or Colombia. Nor did I say that most of the coca in Peru and Colombia is E. novogranatense. What I did say is that E. novogranatense is mostly from Peru and Colombia. Which is true. E. novogranatense is the plant of choice for collectors. By "Bolivian plants" I mean "plants that grow or have grown or whose ancestors grew in the country known as Bolivia". I am sorry that I cannot make that any more simple for you. Your inability to understand the burden of simple English is fatiguing. My English is nearly always precise. Try reading it carefully before you try to correct me. I have spent no time in Bolivia, the place does not call me to visit it. But I know an epic when I hear of it and your little adventure holiday was not an epic. Read Wade Davis. [This message has been edited by theobromos (edited 12 August 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted August 13, 2002 Ouch guys. I dont want to wade deep into this issue but... Can you tell us what you know about Trujillo coca Ive seen someinfo that trujillo grows in signicicantly drier and cooler conditions can either of you confirm this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WarpedAstro Posted August 13, 2002 hey I am no coca expert, but thought let you know that I was watching a ABC documtery last night at 6pm, show called "Pilot Guides" and that guy in the show was doing a show about Bolivia, and he went to these "legal" coca feilds, controlled by the local government, and they were grown way up the mountains in a valley, I can't remember how many metres above sea level as I drank bit too much merlots with my roast lamb last night, but I know for sure that the presenter of the documtery was a hardcore aussie and he was wearing woolies, so I guess it was bit cool, where the coca feild were..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murple Posted August 13, 2002 > By "Bolivian plants" I mean "plants that grow > or have grown or whose ancestors grew in the > country known as Bolivia". Yes, you say this, then you go on to lump these plants all together as far as their suitability for chewing or making cocaine powder. It is not your English which is flawed, it is your knowledge that is flawed. There is as much variation between coca strains in Bolivia as there is variation between wines in Europe. Your statements about coca on this thread have been pretty damn silly, since you present factually ridiculous material with a tone of arrogance that is entirely unsuited to your wrongness. Also, I don't think you're qualified to judge my trip based on a quick summary of one aspect (coca) of the journey. And frankly, if you find yourself unable to read a report about coca because you find the author's use of the word "epic" objectionable... that says way more about your closed-mindedness than it does about the content of the paper. Perhaps your anger is simply the jealousy of an armchair adventurer? In any case, you don't really know what you're talking about on this subject. In any event, I don't much care what you think of me, so I don't see any point in continuing arguments over whether my experiences were "epic" enough for your standards. The only thing of issue here is coca. Please limit your further replies to this subject. [This message has been edited by Murple (edited 13 August 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted August 13, 2002 hey guys, you're both incredibly knowledgable and I am sure neither of you have the full and only truth. It's an educationnal discussion, but I am sure we can all do without the attitude - it's kinda making you look silly. Whose ever turn it is next, take the high road. I would much rather know what either of you know about E.novogranatense var.huanuco. Like, where it grows, what it is good for, who uses it and for what? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites