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#1 triskele

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:04 PM

Hi all!

Just wondering what everyone here thinks about the concept of polyamory? (polyamory literally means 'many loves', but is used to refer to the idea of ethical and consensual non-monogamy, ie. the practice, desire, or acceptance of having more than one intimate relationship at a time with the consent of everyone involved)

Whilst monogamy is purported to be the ideal relationship arrangement in modern Western society, it seems that in actual fact there is a lot of deceptive non-monogamy (cheating/infidelity) going on, which is borne out in high divorce rates etc. Could this be because we are enculturated to deny the fact that we can in fact love and be attracted to more than one person at a time? I think the concept of polyamory is appealing because it encourages radical honesty and directness about ones desires and feelings, rather than encouraging dishonesty and subversion of these emotions, which the ideation of monogamy seems to do.

It is interesting, however, to note that polyamory is so widely demonised. Even amongst circles of people I would ordinarily consider freethinkers, the idea of polyamory often incites a sense of derision. I would have thought that there might be a link between people who were open to different modes of consciousness through entheogenic exploration, and those that might be open to different modes of consciousness through an exploration of sexuality and progressive relationship arrangements.

Personally I feel there is a link between polyamory, entheogen use and tantra/sacred sex, in the sense that all three modalities encourage a mentality of openness and love rather than of fear, and all three appear to be concerned to connect the individual to the 'oneness' in some way or other. If one thinks of the global consciousness as 'evolving' or changing to become ever more complex and interlinked, is it not possible that polyamory may constitute a highly beneficial mode of being that could contribute to the evolution of global consciousness?

I am not saying that everyone should be polyamorous (of course for many people, monogamy is a wonderful, beautiful and honest thing) - my point is only that I feel an acceptance of the philosophy of polyamory as a legitimate relationship choice would be a progressive step forward for humanity.

What do people here think?
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#2 JDanger

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 01:18 AM

I like the idea. Unfortunately it's a bit like communism--it doesn't really work in practice. Jealousy is a powerful thing these days.
I disagree.

#3 FancyPants

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 10:44 AM

I like the idea. Unfortunately it's a bit like communism--it doesn't really work in practice. Jealousy is a powerful thing these days.


Anybody hear that deflating sound?

But yeah, agreed.

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#4 momomoto

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 09:22 PM

just with the political analogy

Polyamory is a bit like an Anarchy
while the capitalists of love are called prostitutes!
***big fancy signature***

#5 botanika

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 02:30 PM

From a lustful angle it would be nice to sleep around with a few girls legitimately but dealing with 1 wife is hard enough...don't know if I'd want anymore. To quote Ari Gold from entourage 'do what every married man does - imagine someone else when f@$king your wife'.
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#6 educate

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 08:34 PM

I am neither for or against but just want to create discussion.

How about STIs?

#7 FancyPants

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 10:14 PM

I am neither for or against but just want to create discussion.

How about STIs?


Should be no more or less important an issue than in dealing with any facet of sexual activity with - at least anyway - a second partner.

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#8 mutant

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 10:38 PM

Nice opinions...

philosophically accepting polyamory as a concept doesn't mean you're actually accepting it in practice. So when it comes to practice we prove we are actually somewhat programmed as species to function as monogamous animals- the extremity of jealousy expressions are evident in the whole fucking animal kingdom - the more complex the animal, the more complex the relationships and the forms of diplomacy and antagonism and jealousy.

We like to fuck a lot of broads in real life, but we [usually] can't stand the idea to share our lady, the one that we care a lot. If it's a broad we don't so much care about, then yeah it works, a bit. And OK, if it's 3-4 ladies that should share us, it sure looks good from the males perspective, in theory again, but I don't think the chicks will like each other too much as a result of this 'love' complex...

None of all these hippy ideas really work at practive, polyamory and such ideas and practices are, I think a direct result of the open-ness, open-mindedness psychedelics seem to promote. But like I and JB said, it doesn't quite work.

Still I think its one of the things some people should try for themselves...

Note, JB said:

Jealousy is a powerful thing these days.

why these days, I feel it has always been like that. It's programming. We are a bit like elephants. one guy one girl for life. well we're not at that extreme, but I have come through the years to believe we are more like that than what I used to believe in my earlier days. We are not designed for sharing gene pools.
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#9 botanika

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 11:53 AM

Note, JB said:

why these days, I feel it has always been like that. It's programming. We are a bit like elephants. one guy one girl for life. well we're not at that extreme, but I have come through the years to believe we are more like that than what I used to believe in my earlier days. We are not designed for sharing gene pools.

Yeah there's no way jealously is recent...women have spent the last 2 million years perfecting how to make men feel guilty LOL
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#10 AndyAmine.

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 12:56 PM

Yes I feel we are polygamous by nature and I do believe the idea of monogamy has been washed into our brains over time.

That said I really do enjoy monogamy and the ideas surrounding it but at the same time I have a strong desire to try and break those ideas down as I feel that its these ideas of jealousy, repressed lust, ownership, possession, co-dependency etc. that shackle and bind us to a great extent.

Particularly in this day and age of intensive advertising and unrealistic ideas of what is beautiful or attainable, we are constantly having images of incredibly toned, sexy bodies that we can not have rammed down out throats, always leaving us with feelings of desire, un-returned lust and a want for something we cant have.

So with all these images of gorgeous women/men in adverting or real people on the street that we want to fuck but we cant, particularly if we are in a monogamous relationship, in turn leaves us with all these insatiable desires that we cant fulfill. this IMPRISONS US, imprisoned by our own cave-man lust and desire for polygamy.

But IMO if we could fuck around like out integral programing tells us too then these shackles would be largely released.

I have been thinking about all this for quite a few years now as I have/do feel very much controlled by my jealously and desires, so coincidentally while pondering on the matter late at night a few weeks back I saw a documentary come on TV about the subject called 'The Workshop'.

http://www.alivemind...f-the-workshop/

Its about some workshops held by a guy called 'Paul Lowe' in the US covering sexual/spiritual freedom and 'living in the now' type philosophies. Unfortunately it comes with a little bit of alien stuff which, along with the obvious exhibitionists and thrill seekers that are tagging along for the ride gets in the way of what seems to be some very powerful work).

Some of the reviews are scathing and extremely skeptical (read: Tribecca) and while I agree with some remarks they make I dont think most of them actually paid much attention to what was going on from scene to scene and took each one on face value without taking each characters individual story into account.

Personally I am looking forward to the next time Paul Lowe comes to Australia to do some workshops, I will be there for sure.

Has anyone here ever been to one?

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#11 G*P

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 04:12 PM

I am Polyamorous. I looked for a better term for along time, but this fits neat for now.
It has AMAZING potential. Particularly when the participants are rather spiritual, even better when they're trippers.
It can be as intensely difficult, as it is INCREDIBLE.

I think its easier for a man when he has bi-sexual women who also love each other.
Being Poly, with other mono's can be more challenging.

There's a few major concepts/paradigms that ive found over time that can be very helpful. If a man has the mind/communication skills and resources, it can be sheer delight. Though, I think to some degree there'll always be an elemnt of hard work.

Oh, and for the guys- I dunno, its a wonderful challenge in self realisation. Understanding the the minutae of your own mind and emotional systems. It can and does work without jelaousy, for the right people or those who are willing to exert the effort.

And yeah, 3 gorgeous hunnies- all of which offer me different joys, who love me unconditonally-
its a small hurdle to find yourself celebrating their one sexuality too.

Edited by G*P, 07 November 2009 - 04:16 PM.


#12 Mycot

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 05:50 PM

Sounds like what you are describing is not polyamory but polygyny(one man having more than one wife) :rolleyes:

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#13 triskele

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 11:59 PM

[color="#000080"]Yes I feel we are polygamous by nature and I do believe the idea of monogamy has been washed into our brains over time.

I have a strong desire to try and break those ideas down as I feel that its these ideas of jealousy, repressed lust, ownership, possession, co-dependency etc. that shackle and bind us to a great extent.


Totally agreed on this point AndyAmine.

In refusing to accept we have a choice to move beyond jealousy, we bind ourselves to a reduced potential to express love and satisfy our natural desires for physical, emotional and spiritual intimacy with others.

To say that loving a person has anything to do with wanting to control their behaviour I think is a sad indictment on the meaning of love.

Moreover, let's face it, people 'fuck around' (I hate this term) a lot anyway, regardless of what they like to profess about the virtues of monogamy.
Polyamory seems to me a much more honest and ethical way of going about things.

Indeed, 'fucking around' is a concept that I think is actually quite particular to monogamy. It implies covert behaviour, deceit, dirtiness, a lack of respect for partners. This is the opposite of what polyamory advocates.
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#14 fractal

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 10:39 AM

GRRRR!!!

Ok I just read all the posts and there is a common mistake being made, I was going to quote each relevant statement but I donít have time so..
Polyamory is not about ďfuckingĒ multiple people to satisfy lust (thatís swinging) polyamory is about loving multiple people.

My Polyamorous philosophy is about being true to love, that means accepting someoneís love for what it is and being able to love them enough to rejoice in the happiness they experience with another partner (not feel jealous that they spend time with another person or feel threatened that you will be replaced)

I would like to emphasise my point about it not being about sex. I have an amazingly intimate relationship with a gay women, sex doesnít come into it and its hard to describe but it sure as hell isnít plutonic. I have many intimate relationships. Some of them are completely devoid of sex, and in some sex is a very occasional expression of our love and others still sex is frequent and playful.

I see monogamy (the garden variety) as a social contract born from insecurity, people are terrified that their partner will leave them for someone better so they mutually forfeit their rights to experience love from another person or meet new people. I know some of my partners see other men and it doesnít freak me out or make me jealous because we agreed to it at the beginning of the relationship and truly want each other to be happy (and donít feel as though we own each other).

For all the people who keep asserting that polyamory doesnít work:
have you tried it? and I mean really tried it.. That means actually discussing your feelings with prospective partners and establishing boundaries, nurturing a loving relationship with them and trying to feel happiness from their happiness. If you can do those simple things then polyamory should work. Im not saying its for everyone, no single philosophy is for everyone. Im just saying it works if you donít treat it as a strategy for having lots of sex.

I mean ive had failures but they were caused by poor communication or deception, you have to make sure your partner is telling you what they really feel and that you are telling them what you really feel. Also.. im not against monogamy at all, I think Its beautiful when done right and I look forward to finding someone that I can have that with.

#15 triskele

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 11:53 AM

ooh thanks fractal! You put my thoughts into words on this matter so eloquently! yay :)
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#16 FancyPants

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 12:16 PM

GRRRR!!!

Ok I just read all the posts and there is a common mistake being made, I was going to quote each relevant statement but I donít have time so..
Polyamory is not about ďfuckingĒ multiple people to satisfy lust (thatís swinging) polyamory is about loving multiple people.

My Polyamorous philosophy is about being true to love, that means accepting someoneís love for what it is and being able to love them enough to rejoice in the happiness they experience with another partner (not feel jealous that they spend time with another person or feel threatened that you will be replaced)

I would like to emphasise my point about it not being about sex. I have an amazingly intimate relationship with a gay women, sex doesnít come into it and its hard to describe but it sure as hell isnít plutonic. I have many intimate relationships. Some of them are completely devoid of sex, and in some sex is a very occasional expression of our love and others still sex is frequent and playful.

I see monogamy (the garden variety) as a social contract born from insecurity, people are terrified that their partner will leave them for someone better so they mutually forfeit their rights to experience love from another person or meet new people.
I know some of my partners see other men and it doesnít freak me out or make me jealous because we agreed to it at the beginning of the relationship and truly want each other to be happy (and donít feel as though we own each other).

For all the people who keep asserting that polyamory doesnít work:
have you tried it? and I mean really tried it.. That means actually discussing your feelings with prospective partners and establishing boundaries, nurturing a loving relationship with them and trying to feel happiness from their happiness. If you can do those simple things then polyamory should work. Im not saying its for everyone, no single philosophy is for everyone. Im just saying it works if you donít treat it as a strategy for having lots of sex.

I mean ive had failures but they were caused by poor communication or deception, you have to make sure your partner is telling you what they really feel and that you are telling them what you really feel. Also.. im not against monogamy at all, I think Its beautiful when done right and I look forward to finding someone that I can have that with.


I don't think most people would consider labelling themselves "monogamists" because of an ingrained fear of being contrary to societal contract.

Just out of curiosity what would you consider the difference between a partnership (with any number of partners) and a very good friendship?

Hey there fancy pants play the songs that make us dance.
Play the tunes that make the ladies swoon.
A song for all the lonley hearts, shattered dreams, and broken parts.
It feels like sunny days are comin soon.
-Ween


#17 Chiral

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 03:48 PM

I already love everybody out there...now I just wanna get down to fucking them all...it's the natural progression.

beats doin this....Posted Image

#18 fractal

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 07:12 PM

I don't think most people would consider labelling themselves "monogamists" because of an ingrained fear of being contrary to societal contract.

Just out of curiosity what would you consider the difference between a partnership (with any number of partners) and a very good friendship?



mmm I didnít quite understand what you meant with your first question..

I didnt say they were afraid of being contrary to societal contracts i said that they create social contracts between each other out of jealousy of other lovers or fear of being replaced by a new lover.

And I did say ďgarden varietyĒ monogamy im not saying every monogamous relationship has spawned from these insecurities.



Second question is great.. and complicated to answer :P

Every time I try and answer this with precision it sounds rather wanky so put very simply and crudely: I donít believe there is much difference at all between a partnership and a friendship.. I would like to answer it a bit more truthefully but I have to get off the net now :(

#19 FancyPants

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 09:49 AM

^^^ First line was just a thought countering what you'd said (bolded), but I probably didn't read what you said properly in the first place.

It's a subject very close to myself, and since I've had very little actual relationship experience I need to glean as much as I can to maybe make better sense of what I'm going through - but I don't mean that to sound negative in any way.

Can't wait to read more of your thoughts when you have a chance to word them better :) I hate compromising meaning for speed but do it all the time, so I totally understand.

Hey there fancy pants play the songs that make us dance.
Play the tunes that make the ladies swoon.
A song for all the lonley hearts, shattered dreams, and broken parts.
It feels like sunny days are comin soon.
-Ween


#20 ayjay101

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 02:45 PM

IME in the cold hearted light of reality in this society, the polyamorous path is a lonely and difficult one. Perhaps this was a result of my environment and personality (set and setting :P ), but when I have attempted to pursue this path in the past I've found it does not necessarily lead to the bliss that it often teases one with. The feeling of falling/being in love with someone new is obviously exciting and incredibly uplifting and this is proportionally multiplied when experiencing this with multiple people simultantously. I have also felt the joy and shared in the bliss of my partner(s) experiencing this with other lovers. To immerse yourself in this continuously is awesome, but ultimately where does it lead? Where it gets unstuck for me is that the 'purpose' of each new relationship seems to be limited by the fact that either party will never commit themselves exclusively to that person, even if neither party necessarily wants it from the other. The relationship is not motivated to develop and progress as compared to a long-term monagamous one, because it doesn't need to. I appreciate that the new relationships don't have to develop per se, ie: just live in the now - but then beyond the excitement of the honeymoon period, whats the point? It becomes too quickly about immediate satisfactions (including but not exclusively, sex) and repetition. More often than not it seemed to deteriorate to the level of either: a) being single with different temporary relationships coming and going or b ) being in semi-relationship(s) but always looking outward or c) being good friends that have shagged in the past (or still do, though this doesn't normally last long)
Our society really is geared up for couples to live and prosper, ie settle down and build lives together, get a mortgage, possibly have kids, travel, share experiences etc. Given this, if there is no longer term plan accompanying the relationship it fails to have a purpose beyond the immediate. It's much harder to 'settle down' with multiple lovers, attend family events and social gatherings, have a family of your own, make long term plans for the future, etc. And it's also very hard to shun society but still take what you need from it to get by - ie: a job, friends, family etc.
It's also hard to find other people who genuinely believe in free and open love. Even if you are so lucky, issues of jealousy and loneliness can still play a part, not to mention all the typical failings of 'normal' relationships. When issues do crop up, they are less likely to be dealt with properly, because it's not as vital as it is in a long-term continuous relationship.
I have arrived at the point where I'm married now and we based it on a philosophy that the marriage does not prevent either of us from experiencing anything we may want to, provided that the new experiences don't alter our love for each other and the want to be in the relationship. Being with someone else who is sympathetic to the 'natural' longings and desires to be with others (not just sexually) and allowing it to happen occasionally, (but at the end of the day, still being committed to that relationship above any others, ie: 'open' relationship) is the closest I could get. We tell the potential new people that we're married up front which more often kills the mood, but occasionly find someone who agrees with the situation. However - it's too often just about the sex, which is really not fulfilling enough (for me).
Incidentally we also tried swinging, orgies, partner-swaps, 3somes, 4-somes etc (I've had a good run really :lol:) and the potential mind-games and paranoia exerted by some of the involved parties involved in these things can make them pretty unsavoury. It was such a disappointment as I thought we'd really come across some like minded people at these things, but no. I think it's because people fantasize about their own sexual satisfaction, but the fantasy doesn't include their partner getting satisfaction with someone else. Shame really, as it can really help you appreciate your partner in a completely different light.

I still dream about a truly open and free-lovin community, but I don't think I'll see it in this lifetime. It's great to talk about though, and I do see enormous parallel with the whole psychedelic thing. I just think it's too hard to make it fit long-term in this reality.
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#21 Mycot

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:54 AM

I already love everybody out there...now I just wanna get down to fucking them all...it's the natural progression.

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

   Legalise Drugs  -  All of Them           S.M.I.2L.E              T.O.P.Y.              T.A.Z.            CHAOS (The broadsheets of ontological anarchism)
Programming and Metaprograming in the Human Bio-computer          A Thousand Plateaus: Gilles Deleuze & Felix Guattari           Barbarossaaaa
National Organization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood                      Neuromancer              Greg Egan              Illuminatas Triology
  


#22 devance

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 10:46 AM

If a incubbis or sububis deamon can do it would be a rapist experiemce so a not a supernatural experience.










ways the ass hole and vagina and oral sex.

And can do so in such a degree its only a qustion of telepathic or actuall body change..

I
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#23 holymountain

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 01:22 PM

just finished reading this....http://realitysandwich.com/polyamory_parade

then came to the corroboree and found this thread. interesting thread. devance...i'm not sure what the hell you are talking about.

#24 devance

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 08:41 AM

Its been hell, the only thing is the molten lava lacking for a depiction of demons whipping souls into a pit.

So as a physic aspect.

Not into cultural or psychiatric or religious stereotypes.

Good luck on science as known but can be with science unknown.
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#25 Chiral

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 01:01 PM

yes sorry for the fun and minor intrusion...

carry on with the topic at hand.

Edited by Chiral, 12 November 2009 - 05:45 PM.