Sapo

[friendly]

I recently received some bamboo sticks covered with Sapo, the dried secretion of the Phyllomedusa bicolor frog from the Amazon.

This is used as a hunting and magical aid (you can check your animal traps in the jungle without having to visit hem in person, according to the natives) by certain tribes and has only recently become known to the outside world. It is the new flavor of the month in Brazil and Argentina, and the frog is even depicted on at least one magazine cover.

You can find information on erowid and video on youtube if you key in 'sapo'. I found an analysis of the secretion somewhere-possibly on erowid--that details the chemicals involved and their individual contributions to the overall effect, but I cannot find it now.

Anyway, I carefully partly unwrapped one of the sticks, being very careful (or so I thought) to not get any on me, as it is absorbed through the skin.

A short while afterwards, I began to notice some slightly different symptoms than what I was expecting, a feeling of well being and great strength, which is the effect supposedly produced after the vile effects---violent purging, followed by diarrhea--wear off and one has slept. The person I saw in a youtube video had his skin turn a bright red shortly after being 'innoculated' by burning a small patch of skin with a twig, peeling the burned skin off to expose new skin and mixing the dried secretion with saliva until a green emulsion is formed which is then put onto the burn mark(s) and is absorbed almost immediately, producing the initial effects.

So far, this has lasted for two days and been quite amazing and distinctive, but not overwhelming by any means. I assume I must have picked up a minuscule dose from the dried banana leaf wrapper when I undid it to examine the material. I had hoped that a miniscule dose would have these effects without the purging, but this is much stronger than I would have expected. There was no visible material on the part I handled, which was the dried banana leaf that was wrapped around the stick, and I did not anticipate any effects.

I am very tempted to try it again, but I am being cautious as I don't want to encounter the harsh physical (ordeal) side to the experience, and will wait until all noticable effects have dissipated as I don't want to push myself into the uncomfort zone by adding more at this point.

I recommend extreme caution with this material, if you can find it. There seems to be a developing commercial source of supply--I have been told there would be 300 sticks every 3 months. I also did some research and found this is considered an endangered species, so I am hesitant to encourage commercial development, which might further hurt the species.

I am told--and I have seen video--of tadpoles of the species being grown in captivity for eventual sale, so this might be a moot point in the future, but for the time being, be cautious until you know the source.

[hebrew]

yes a few years ago i got a few sticks with some nunu from the matses, i will take sapo about once a year, with very strong effects it is great for cleansing and purging out crap, and you feel really clean after, although it is very very hard experience, but it is also kinda enjoyable, i have written a report here somewhere form the last time i had sapo at the beginning of this year i think, must be getting time agin for some more, not sure how long this stuf lasts for but i reckon i got enuogh from two sticks to last me forever.

the whole body heats up beyond belief and your burning all over, your heart gets faster and faster like it is going bust out of your chest, your sweating like a mother fucker and the purge is hard and intense. 15 minutes seems like an eternity, but when it starts to wear off you are exhausted, after resting you are alive like you have not been before everything is aligned and you have extra strength that lasts a long time every sense is hieghtened. its pretty amazing stuff

[Torsten]

15 minites? I thought it lasted several hours?

Piers Gibbon has documented his sapo experience in the amazon in the doco 'Jungle Trip'. It has fascinated me for ages and I am looking forward to my first experience in the next few weeks. Can't say it doesn't scare me a little <___base_url___>/uploads/emoticons/default_ohmy.png. Also not too keen on the cigarette burns.

[hebrew]

for me when i have it the intense hard core part seems to be about 15 minutes, i may be mistaken, but from m memory it is not that long, the overall effects last for days, but i only seemed to have been not that long maybe i am not takign huge doses i dont know

be interested to see how you go with it torsten. maybe if you leave the sapo on the burns it will last longer. i guess it would

i find it truly amazing stuff, but it is very frightening that is true.

do you have to do cigarette burns? when i got my sticks i was sent a tamashi (sp?) vine which is used traditionally to administer the burns its not that tick maybe you could use a smaller stick? the burns are nothing though in comparison to the effects.

[friendly]

Yes. the natives use small twigs and not cigarettes to make the burns. Just the quickest touch of the glowing ember on the end of the twig to the skin is enough. The resulting blister is peeled away, leaving new skin to which the material, mixed into an emulsion with saliva, is applied.

By trying to not ingest any the other day, I asorbed a very minuscule amount which did not produce any of the purging or thermogenic effects, just a growling in the stomach the next day, which may or may not have been due to the sapo.

If I can determine the dose I used, I can double it. Seeing as the dose I took was not visible on the material I handled, this may be difficult.

Perhaps the best way would be to dissolve a tiny measured amount in a measured amount of water or saliva and apply small amounts of that at a time to unbroken skin. For the time being, I suggest avoiding anything like dmso as the effects are experienced rapidly enough after ingestion as is, and dmso may increase the strength of the effects. This substance may not be a good idea at all for someone with cardiac issues.

I imagine the first person to experience the effects may have picked up a frog, got slimed, and found out the hard way. It must have taken some time and experimentation to determine the method of ingestion and dosing currently in use in the Amazon.

I was told that the material can be smoked, but that this makes the effects many times stronger.

VS: Please detail for us your dosage, method of ingestion and effects, if you would. I would like to find a consistently workable level without the physical extremes, if possible.

Edited November 2, 2008 by friendly

[hebrew]

friendly the first time i had sapo i had only a small amount, for some fuck up reason i thought i would snort it, dont ask me why but ay i did. i snorted a tiny amount say about the size of a matchead, the burn was so very intense it was unbelievable my nose felt like it had snorted up some hcl acid or someshit.

anyway wihtin secodns my body was on fire i felt so out of this place i could hardly stand and i groaned and growled am moaned and thought to myself you are ucking idoit VS, what in gods name made you think to snort this shit. anyway. i made my way to the shower, before doing so my mrs said i looked ghostly pale. i made it to the shower and had a coldish shower i blew my nose to get it out and i think i washed alot out of my nose as much as i could, but my that time there was no way back it was already takign place so i sat there and learnt to jsut deal with it, i felt like vomiting but never did, later after the intensity i had the shits.. the effects lasted what seemed to be 15 mutes or so maye 20 i guess, this was a small dose ay a matchead isnt very much. but one of the most interesting experiences of this sessions was i felt like i had changed into a frog, i was that little green from, i made its sound and when i did make that sound all intense hard experiences seemed to disapear so i played with that i was sort of in this nothing space i could think, but i did not have control over my body, i was kinda detached, i made that growling sound and was shown to make it deep in the throat, well it did it naturally, when i did that i was that frog, i was not VS.

as i got rid of the sapo from the nose it did not last a long time, afterwards when iw as able to move i stumble to get dressed and i laid on the couch, i was exhausted i had a semi sleep one that is half awake half asleep after say about 1 - 2 hours i was awake and full of vigor i felt wonderful and full of strength, i felt happy and i felt positive. this positive effects lasted for 3 or so days after. my nose had no negative side effects from snuffing that stuff, i will never do that again let that be a lesson to anyone who may as stupid as me to think to do so.

second time i gave myself one burn i scraped a small amount, about the size of two matcheads off the bamboo and spat into that powder it mixes up into a snot like consistency and becomes pastey it is easy to apply to the burn i burnt the tamashi vine which glows red after being extinguished, gave my self one burn and applied some of the sapo not all to the burn, it was not enough so i applied more ohh i shoudl ay you need to peel off the top layer of skin fromt he burn when you give the burn it has this layer of white burnt skin it peels off easily leaving a small burn mark that is open you cover the whole burn with sapo, i added a small amount and if etl the heat rise but that was all that i felt i added more but there were was not as much heat as my snorting experience. this was nice the heat rose i felt lethargic and coudlnt move, i alos dribbled alot but it was kinda enjoyable i sweated some but not like before.

i will have to come back and write about my last session and i will hsow you some sapo for the post as well

VS

[shoemaker]

the journalist Peter Gorman is the person that "discovered" sappho. It was a rainy day and so he was in one of the Matses cabins waiting it out, decided to ask for the names of various things in the home and looked up in the corner to see a cloth bag hanging there and asked what it was. The Matses don't call it sappho but have their own name for it, which I can't remember... Peter brought samples out and shipped to two labs, one in France and Heuser Chemical in Colorado. The analysis showed that the sappho contained more bio-active alkaloids than anything ever discovered by man. Apparently this was the medicine that kept them alive and healthy before they moved to the commerce of the river, about 45 years ago.

There was a terrible malaria epidemic several years back and so three younger Matses made the trip to Iquitos in search of help. They met me and in order to make them feel more comfortable, I showed them the burn on my arm from having taken sappho. This was really funny cause they unbuttoned they shirts and showed me many razor blade cuts over their hearts where they had been doing sappho. It's just one of those things they do on a rainy day when stuck in their cabins...

Peter has written about sappho quite extensively and no doubt you can find the article by using a search vehicle.

the frogs have been taken out of the jungle in order to have a constant supply for study, but they found that they don't produce the sappho when in captivity. no doubt it's got to be something about their diet.

the Matses call these frogs in when they wish to use their toxin by mimicking the frogs sound. They then walk right up to the frog and pick it up, treat it with tremendous respect. It's 4 legs are tied and streched to 4 sticks in the ground, then the stomache is irritated by a stick which causes the frog to secrete its toxin. That is placed on the bamboo sticks and wrapped in the leaves but then it is hung in a cloth back up over the fireplace so it "cures" and drys. If this step isn't taken it would mold.

Once the frog is milked, it's untied and gently placed back into its jungle habitat.

[BlackDragon]

Im interested does anyone know when the supposed "western discovery" of sappo was? Does anyone have any idea?

Reason for asking sappo was one of the very first plant/animal drugs i had ever herd of or remember vividly from when i was a child, it had been filed away in my memory untill recently when application methods were discussed, it rang amazing bells in my head that my old pals dad must have been reasonably well experienced in the stuff.

Back in the day, Im talking way way back, primary year 6 or 7 (maybe 12yrs old??, some 20 odd years ago), i had a great friend in my class that had just arrived from England, he was way cool. His Dad was somewhat of a crazy nutter, into all the things i used to love back then, fireworks, poisions, more fireworks, anarchist stuff, anything that now days is considered evil

I remember Robert (my pommy pal) discussing that his dad had all this crazy stuff locked away in his room, all the goodies we had ever wanted. He made special note of a substance that his dad used, by cutting or burning spots into his upper arm or forearm that he then proceeded to apply a "slime or paste" from a green frog to it. Robert said that his dad would then go a bit weird for a while. I always wondered why someone would do that and it intrigued me immensly.

Amazing that at that age , maybe 12, he had such a grasp of this substance, looking back on it now i wonder how such info could be avaiable to him? Perhaps his dad was a old school ethnohead and i didnt even know. To this day, wish i could have had more chats with Roberts dad, i bet he would be one interesting fellow. Knowing what the substance was, let along getting ahold of it must have been a task back then.

Needless to say, even tho this memory was somewhat re-pressed, i have no doubt that it was one of many events that turned me to the ethno aspect life.

Great to hear people discuss it, i had only ever seen it in Piers's docco so far, watching that vid and opening the discussion is bringing back some wonderfull memories of my youth which i thought had been lost. Thanks guys.

Maybe it had further reaching effects than just the immediate user

Bd.

[hebrew]

i have read alot of peter gormans writing on sapo and foudn ti very interesting. i was just lukcy enough to haev a bottle of nunu sent to me a while back and in that parcel where some sapo sticks

nunu i think is one of the most amazing snuffs there are. i wish i knew how to make it like they do there in the jungle

my last session with sapo

i did 3 burns on my arms above the elbow area and applied the sapo, same thing as before, intense heat heart ruhisn sweating hard to move etc, i didnt rub it off this time and was able to really ride with it not fight against it, i enjoyed it in a strange way, i gave myself another burn to give myself some more and applied that it just seemed to make it last longer i cant remember the duration of this session that well. i am guessing it was 15 - 30 minutes cant recal sorry.

i find sapo to be very good at cleansing ourselves on many levels, spiritually and physically so that is why i do like to do it yearly i should do it more

hope that helps what i have written.

[hebrew]

thinking now of the experience i recall such intense heating across the face it is really quite extraordinary, it is so hot. it really does push out yoru crap you hold onto, its good medicine.

[t st tantra]

cant find it now........was reading some halperngate stuff ,ended up reading about a fellow,alfred sa??????[italian/indian[?] well know entheogen reearcher] having frogs and sapo [in the us].

will post it if i find it......

http://www.tripzine.com/listing.php?id=650

My Burning Man crew and I visited Alfred a number of times in Taos, and once he introduced us to the secretions obtained from Phylomedusa bicolor, a tree frog found throughout the Amazon basin. The procedure was simple, albeit odd: using smoldering incense sticks, we removed a few layers of skin from our upper arms, and then swabbed on a dab of the goo. Within moments I was overcome by a full volume niacin rush, a blood-pounding vasodilation in the neck and lower head. My throat felt scratchy and hot as the venom raced through my body, shooting tiny bolts of electricity along my arms and descending somewhat ominously to my gut. After five minutes or so, the blast was basically over. We lingered on the couch for a while longer, sipping Reed's Ginger Brew that Alfred handed us with a smile.

I was amazed by the thoroughly excellent if subtle payoff the venom had in store for me over the next few days: a persistently "up" level of energy and mood, but without the edginess of stimulants or the dopey, somewhat plastic cast of Big Pharma mood elevators. Later on, Alfred, whose upper arm looked like the cratered afterzone of a teenage acne scourge, loaded a bunch of us up again. Though he promised that the rewards depended on the heaviness of the dose, I still took a moderate amount. But Alfred blew out the stops for Yeti, who is a psychoactive hard-head and proud of it. After getting lathered up, Yeti was reduced to a quivering, sweating wreck whose only payoff, he later said, was the immense relief that he did not, in fact, die. The Bad Shaman just grinned at him. "Maybe you didn't get enough."

doesnt say if he had frogs himself,got it wrong.

t s t .

Edited November 3, 2008 by t st tantra

[hebrew]

a interesting video on sapo

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=2-GYrK-dS5M

[t st tantra]

this is a link to a peter gorman article in omni......good stuff on the chemistry and effects.......note,used for abortion!

http://diseyes.lycaeum.org/fresh/nunu.htm

link with nice pic and downloadable mp3 of frog call in the wild.........

http://www.erowid.org/archive/sonoran_dese...oad/bicolor.htm

t s t .

[t st tantra]

so sapo is mixed with tobacco and snorted.........

what could be substituted for caicuma[sp?]? for detoxing.

http://www.mariri.net/content/view/31/1/

some tribes have long rows of burn scars,so does it scar all the time and how badly?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/30/bus...frog.php?page=1

t s t .

Edited February 9, 2009 by t st tantra

[t st tantra]

peter gorman seems to have journalist syndrome so i'm wary of believing all he writes but its very interesting........sapo,to treat lazy children!........is the snake defense story true?its a goody,but makes me think twice about taking sapo.....are they old sapo scars in the pic?

http://www.mariri.net/content/view/22/1/

t s t .

[hebrew]

just quickly as i gotta get to work

but the scars i have last about a year thy are not very big you can put them where you dont see them if you wish, at times i have noticed my employer look at my scars when they were more prominent next time i will put them further up my arm.

sapo isnt mixed with tobacco

it is commonly taken with nunu, however nunu and sapo are not mixed together into one substance, nunu is a tobacco based snuff which is one of the best snuffs i ever had, strong as all fuck but very lucid, and sapo being something you apply through the burn marks.

i imagine tey have long rows of burn marks because they take sapo alot. even now a year on since i last took sapo i can still see some white dots where i had sapo. but very faint.

i dont have time to look at the links i have read that stuff before but cant recall right now.

[t st tantra]

also noticed sapo was used on cuts as well as burns.

from post 14 first link........

The Kaxinawá people call the sapo kampú.

and

Kampú can be used to make snuff - the Indians would take scrape off some of the dried milk with a stick and mix it into tobacco. Just before going into the forest, they would take some of the snuff, and then go hunt.

they do mention use of three frogs so it could be a mixup..........

t s t .

[hebrew]

ohh wow i missed that interesting that they put it in snuff, for some reason when i first had sapo i took it as snuff and i dont know what compelled me to do so, thats interesting,

[herbologist]

sapo,to treat lazy children!

Just watched a doco the other day and they were giving children sapo.

Think it was Madventures 3 episode 1.

[t st tantra]

i keep thinking about mixing a little with some nice tobacco and smoking......it cant be any worse than snorting and easier to calibrate dose?that is dose is mixed into whole cigarette,can stop at one puff if enough or continue til effective........

t s t .

[hebrew]

i dont know i have come to the conclusion that it is best done extenally via the burn method, the traditional way, you dont have to give yourself a big dose and an can up it as you go if it is too strong just wash it off. but i dont know what it woudl be like in yrou lungs

[herbologist]

A mate smoked some chilli powder once, didn't really get to inhale much before he collapsed in a coughing fit, hardly able to draw breath, his eyes were so red they looked like they were bleeding.lol.

Nothing to do with sapo, just thought of it when you mentioned you were thinking of smoking sapo. (after reading VS snorted it)