qualia Posted January 28, 2011 sorry, forgot the link, mentions just the broad term "hallucinogen", which often the lump MDMA in with also, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qualia Posted January 28, 2011 heres a list of submissions i think are related to the current proposal http://www.nationaldrugstrategy.gov.au/internet/drugstrategy/publishing.nsf/Content/NDSSubmissionsReceived i haven't read through them all yet though actually on further reading i believe these are related to something else, but maybe worth reviewing for some inspiration how to structure a submission. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) heres a list of submissions i think are related to the current proposal http://www.nationaldrugstrategy.gov.au/internet/drugstrategy/publishing.nsf/Content/NDSSubmissionsReceived i haven't read through them all yet though No. Those submissions are regarding the draft of the National Drug Strategy 2010-2015 http://www.nationaldrugstrategy.gov.au/internet/drugstrategy/publishing.nsf/Content/consult-draft-toc As far as I can see non of the submissions for the "Consultation on implementation of model drug schedules for Commonwealth serious drug offences" have been published yet. Sorry Qualia, you just beat me to it. Edited January 28, 2011 by Yeti101 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicdirt Posted January 28, 2011 I've been emailing a few nurseries that sell some the species in question and notifying them what's going on. None of them have any idea and they are very surprised this is happening. It could help garner a bit of support from the business sector. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qualia Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) i've also just found a journal article from 2009/2010 which explores mescaline content of L. williamsii and L. diffusa, showing L. diffusa to have no mescaline content and L. williamsii to have specimens which contain mescaline and those without, pm or email me if anyone wants it.. Edited January 28, 2011 by qualia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ballzac Posted January 28, 2011 That's awesome qualia, because it shows that identification of a species would be insufficient evidence of possession. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qualia Posted January 28, 2011 yep, particularly as they lump the entire genus lophophora (including L. diffusa) in the "cactus which contain mescaline" pile, which is a patently falsifiable statement, however i don't think the government are really interested in facts here.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qualia Posted January 28, 2011 heres the paper abstract if anyone can access it themselves Aragane, M., et al. Peyote identification on the basis of differences in morphology, mescaline content, and trnL/trnF sequence between Lophophora williamsii and L. diffusa., Journal of Natural Medicine, vol. 65, no. 1, 2011 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20890669 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted January 28, 2011 Don't you love how government idiocy & oppression drive scholarship and innovation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J Smith Posted January 28, 2011 http://politicaltarot.com/2011/01/golden-wattle-a-dangerous-drug/ Getting high on cacti: proposed crackdown on native plants by LMATHISON on JANUARY 27, 2011 · 0 COMMENTS in ENVIRONMENT,POLITICS Just by chance, I happened to pick up mX the other day to read over breakfast. Usually, all the crazy bits come from the “overheared” or “vent your spleen” sections, but this time it was on the front page. “Wattle be next?” screamed the headline. The Golden Wattle is Australia’s floral emblem, however, the federal government is considering a ban on this native species. Image credit: Flickr Wattle is next, that’s what, along with cacti. Next on the list for a ban, if plans by the federal government go ahead. Golden Wattle (the scientific name is Acacia pycnantha) is Australia’s national flower and features on our emblem. Or, according to a paper recently released by the Attorney-General, a precursor to illicit drugs that deserves to be banned. It appears that we haven’t learnt anything from the failed US “war on drugs”. The discussion paper released by the Attorney-General’s Department has called for the banning of plants that contain mescaline and DMT. This would mean that, among others, the wattle would be banned along with most types of ornamental cacti. Mescaline is a naturally occurring psychedelic alkaloid and one of the oldest psychedelics, with a long history of human use. It grows wild in the Southwestern United States and in Northern Mexico, and has been used in religious traditions amongst the native Indians of these areas. DMT (Dimethyltryptamine ) is another naturally occurring hallucinogenic compound which is found in several plants and in trace amounts in humans and other mammals. So if you thought that some ornamental cacti would look good on the windowsill, forget it. Most people know or have read about other people who drink alcohol, smoke marijuana or use other drugs. Perhaps a little more research is in order, but I am unsure as to how one smokes or sniffs wattle or cacti. Surely any plant could potentially have mind-altering properties if ingested in a particular manner. Banning a plant native to Australia simply makes no sense. Surely police have better things to do than confiscate cacti? Understandably, several concerns have been raised. Robyn Francis, Principal of Permaculture Australiastated: “These plants have been around for ever and have multiple uses and could have very important healing or medicinal qualities for the future”. Ms Francis said history showed prohibition actually “intensified the use of banned substances” by ‘advertising’ their mind-altering properties – illustrated clearly by the US failed prohibition on alcohol in the 1920s and 30s. Alcohol prohibition was a monumental failure, the “war on drugs” remains a monumental failure and those making this proposal should consider the fact that it is equally preposterous. If the government thinks that a wattle or cactus is such a grave threat to society, perhaps it’s time for a new emblem and a new flag. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J Smith Posted January 28, 2011 http://politicaltarot.com/2011/01/golden-wattle-a-dangerous-drug/ Getting high on cacti: proposed crackdown on native plants by LMATHISON on JANUARY 27, 2011 · 0 COMMENTS in ENVIRONMENT,POLITICS Just by chance, I happened to pick up mX the other day to read over breakfast. Usually, all the crazy bits come from the “overheared” or “vent your spleen” sections, but this time it was on the front page. “Wattle be next?” screamed the headline. The Golden Wattle is Australia’s floral emblem, however, the federal government is considering a ban on this native species. Image credit: Flickr Wattle is next, that’s what, along with cacti. Next on the list for a ban, if plans by the federal government go ahead. Golden Wattle (the scientific name is Acacia pycnantha) is Australia’s national flower and features on our emblem. Or, according to a paper recently released by the Attorney-General, a precursor to illicit drugs that deserves to be banned. It appears that we haven’t learnt anything from the failed US “war on drugs”. The discussion paper released by the Attorney-General’s Department has called for the banning of plants that contain mescaline and DMT. This would mean that, among others, the wattle would be banned along with most types of ornamental cacti. Mescaline is a naturally occurring psychedelic alkaloid and one of the oldest psychedelics, with a long history of human use. It grows wild in the Southwestern United States and in Northern Mexico, and has been used in religious traditions amongst the native Indians of these areas. DMT (Dimethyltryptamine ) is another naturally occurring hallucinogenic compound which is found in several plants and in trace amounts in humans and other mammals. So if you thought that some ornamental cacti would look good on the windowsill, forget it. Most people know or have read about other people who drink alcohol, smoke marijuana or use other drugs. Perhaps a little more research is in order, but I am unsure as to how one smokes or sniffs wattle or cacti. Surely any plant could potentially have mind-altering properties if ingested in a particular manner. Banning a plant native to Australia simply makes no sense. Surely police have better things to do than confiscate cacti? Understandably, several concerns have been raised. Robyn Francis, Principal of Permaculture Australiastated: “These plants have been around for ever and have multiple uses and could have very important healing or medicinal qualities for the future”. Ms Francis said history showed prohibition actually “intensified the use of banned substances” by ‘advertising’ their mind-altering properties – illustrated clearly by the US failed prohibition on alcohol in the 1920s and 30s. Alcohol prohibition was a monumental failure, the “war on drugs” remains a monumental failure and those making this proposal should consider the fact that it is equally preposterous. If the government thinks that a wattle or cactus is such a grave threat to society, perhaps it’s time for a new emblem and a new flag. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qualia Posted January 28, 2011 another study from 2009, similar results (this ones free) Sasaki, Y., Rapid and sensitive detection of lophophora williamsii by loop-mediated isothermal amplification, Biological and Pharmaceutical Bulletin, vol. 32, no. 5, 2009, pp. 887-891 http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bpb/32/5/32_887/_article Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herbal_hindsight Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) I think this could be improved on but its just an idea http://www.photofunia.com/categories/magazines/magazine Edited January 28, 2011 by herbal_hindsight Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hutch Posted January 28, 2011 "Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." -- The Declaration of Independence Very fitting indeed......It is our duty.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darklight Posted January 29, 2011 Is it worth trying to find data that would disprove the stupid idea that mescaline is posing an immanent public threat worthy of creating and enforcing expensive new laws and criminalising large segments of the population? Where are the mescaline-related hospital admission statistics? The mescaline-related accident statistics? Lost work days to mescaline use? If the Feds believe that cactus growers pose a significant threat to polite society on the basis of criminal organisation profits they should be able to show some stats, such as per dose per annum profit for the growth and extraction of mescaline bearing plants to end-sale pill for mass consumption. Oh. Figures don't look so good now for the justification of stupid new laws huh The likelihood of extracted cactii products ever reaching socially problematic proportions based on profit is a pathetic notion. And if they're worried about a bunch of bark munching ferals playing with plants for personal use, well, there are already laws in position to cover that I do believe they're playing at seeing how organised said bark munching ferals are. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be organised and professional We lost Kratom because we believed they wouldn't be so simply stupid. And Sally because we didn't know any better re the TGA scheduling process. These plants now have recognised medical use at research phase, though we weren't in a position to claim that at the time and it was left to other researchers in other countries to continue the work. The laws are making us a dumber, poorer country 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klip247 Posted January 30, 2011 "The laws are making us a dumber, poorer country" Maybe that's what they want.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
synchromesh Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) ALP Contacts Emails [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], Brendan.O'[email protected], deborah.o'[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] (Be sure to select BCC [blind Carbon Copy] so that each email looks individual) Online Contact Forms (these politicians didn't have any emails listed) http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/contact.asp?id=HZB http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/contact.asp?id=AI6 http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/senators.asp?id=HES http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/contact.asp?id=GB6 http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/contact.asp?id=7Y6 http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/contact.asp?id=AX5 http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/contact.asp?id=I0N http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/contact.asp?id=I0O http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/contact.asp?id=656 http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/contact.asp?id=I0P http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/contact.asp?id=84N http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/contact.asp?id=00AOQ http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/contact.asp?id=I0T http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/senators/homepages/contact.asp?id=00AOU http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=BV5 http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HVW http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=540 http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HWK http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HW9 http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HW7 http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HWL http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HWM http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=YW6 http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HVN http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HWG http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=83V http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=8T4 http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HV4 http://www.pm.gov.au/contact-your-pm http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=AMP http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=219 http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=A9B http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HRI http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=BU8 http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=M38 http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=PG6 http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HWQ http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=M3E http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=83D http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HWR http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HVP http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=83M http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HWA http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=771 http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=ATG http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=849 http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=770 http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HW8 http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/memfeedback.asp?id=HVZ Edited January 30, 2011 by synchromesh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qualia Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) [edit]sorry link no longer working[/edit] Edited January 30, 2011 by qualia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) Some more non-forum pages talking about this topic: http://politicaltarot.com/2011/01/golden-wattle-a-dangerous-drug/ http://redicecreations.com/article.php?id=13908 I'm writing to my MP today - not that I expect much joy from Sharon Grierson (man she must be sick of hearing from me ) Edit: spelling Edited January 30, 2011 by Yeti101 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qualia Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) Is it worth trying to find data that would disprove the stupid idea that mescaline is posing an immanent public threat worthy of creating and enforcing expensive new laws and criminalising large segments of the population? Where are the mescaline-related hospital admission statistics? The mescaline-related accident statistics? Lost work days to mescaline use? If the Feds believe that cactus growers pose a significant threat to polite society on the basis of criminal organisation profits they should be able to show some stats, such as per dose per annum profit for the growth and extraction of mescaline bearing plants to end-sale pill for mass consumption. Oh. Figures don't look so good now for the justification of stupid new laws huh The likelihood of extracted cactii products ever reaching socially problematic proportions based on profit is a pathetic notion. And if they're worried about a bunch of bark munching ferals playing with plants for personal use, well, there are already laws in position to cover that I do believe they're playing at seeing how organised said bark munching ferals are. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be organised and professional We lost Kratom because we believed they wouldn't be so simply stupid. And Sally because we didn't know any better re the TGA scheduling process. These plants now have recognised medical use at research phase, though we weren't in a position to claim that at the time and it was left to other researchers in other countries to continue the work. The laws are making us a dumber, poorer country AUSTRALIAN DRUG TRENDS 2010 http://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/NDARCWeb.nsf/resources/Conference1/$file/IDRS+&+EDRS+2010.pdf mescaline does rate, but at less than 1% nationally, dmt slightly higher, datura, on the other hand, barely rates at all ( i have a paper* here for mescaline (peyote) hospitalisations in 12 year period in california (was released last year) 31 hospitalisations in 12 years, mostly symptoms of tachycardia, mydriasis, things you would expect with tripping (and panicking) "Clinical effects were usually mild or moderate, and life-threatening toxicity was not reported in this case series." *Carstairs, S. D. , Cantrell, F. L., Peyote and mescaline exposures: a 12-year review of a statewide poison center database, Clinical Toxicology, no. 48, 2010, pp. 350-353 Edited January 31, 2011 by qualia 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted January 31, 2011 Outstanding qualia! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 2, 2011 I have sent an email to GetUp inquiring as to whether they have any plans to adopt the campaign or not... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted February 3, 2011 Good idea. It will take a lot of pressure for them to run with this. It took the combined badgering of tens of thousands of people to prod GetUp into saying something about the Internet Filtering. Even then, their action mostly consisted in taking a lot of cash donations and then producing a relatvely piss-weak campaign. If all you do is vote and comment on the GetUp page then you are doing so little as to be all but passive in this. Write to your MP. (I've done this, why haven't you?) Write to various Senators. Write (or co-write) a submission to the consultation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) Yeah my thoughts,WHY hasn't this one GotUp!? Does Lorenzo Hagerty know? How about Dennis McKenna,M.A.P.S.,...shit I dunno,just suggestions hey. What about some input from Paul Dillon? http://www.abs.gov.a...xpand&Num=5.2.5 Not really up to date so far as I can tell,might be of use. Ahhh latest stats,search for keywords in the viewer. http://www.med.unsw....&+EDRS+2010.pdf http://www.druglibra...aphs/graphs.htm From the U.S. Makes Barry Wonder Edited February 3, 2011 by mescalito Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 3, 2011 To be fair, Getup has to have something to work with. So far, this is only a proposal. Also, they have many other campaigns to deal with and with natural disasters hammering the east coast, they might focus their energies there. What to us is life or death, is to them something that they just have to prioritise. I truly hope they do take it up as a campaign, but I've not yet got a response from them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
