apes evolved into humans by taking magic mushrooms book

[Zen Peddler]

I wouldnt put my trust in two obscure studies from 1981 and 1984 either.

[Rabaelthazar]

When I was nineteen, I honestly believed that I was destined to be a messiah as well.... turned out that I wasn't, but that's cool.

Write that book, man, and maybe the destiny you see for yourself will materialise. If not, don't let yourself become disillusioned. Good luck.

[ThunderIdeal]

same to you rab

just get back on that bike

err, wait, trike

umm no that's not right either.

get back on that wheelchair.

with stripy, headless man handlebars

on the leading wheel (?)

dust off that armpit-less full body dress and just get back on that chair-mobile.

[Rabaelthazar]

same to you rab

just get back on that bike

err, wait, trike

umm no that's not right either.

get back on that wheelchair.

with stripy, headless man handlebars

on the leading wheel (?)

dust off that armpit-less full body dress and just get back on that chair-mobile.

 

LOL... thanks Thunder.

I still do a lot of travel on the Universalator, and I see entities mightier than I.

My destiny was not to be the individual who would save the world, but to be an infinitesimally small part of the consciousness that eventually will.

[HeroicDose]

I think that the issue raised about getting information more easily today compared to Mckenna's era is wrong. The reason being, is that although you're correct that finding information is easier today, it's a matter of finding the correct information. The internet is limitless with information, and anyone can say whatever they want. If I had the skills to create a legit looking website and the patience to type of some convincing theory that aliens live inside your TV and are controlling your mind with advertisements then I think it could take off, and millions of truth seekers would be describing me as the next Mckenna or something like that...

David Icke though... please.

Reptilian shapeshifters......

[botanika]

Quetzalcoatl was a white Nordic. Many of the south american mysteries have racial implications more profound that botanical implications.

[fraser miller]

""Actually Im pretty sure Wasson spent most of his time with the Zapotecs who have a culture vastly different from that of the Maya. The mushrooms he look for and those that were first found by Wasson were in the Oaxaca highlands at a little village called Huautla de Jiminez and San Jose del Pacifico. Unlike the maya, there is little or no evidence that the Zapotecs (who we know used magic mushrooms for divining) were involved in human sacrifice or were involved in warfare. The wheel of time ends with the date in 2012 is mayan, not zapotec.""

He actaully did spend time looking at maya, infact he spent time studying at all the mesoamerican mushroom cultures, but didn't release any related works, so thats why you havn't herd of it.

He was mates with Stephen Francis Borhegyi a mesoamerica archaelogist who discovered mushroom stones in mesoamerica he showed them to a freind who showed them to his freind gordan wasson because he thougth he woudl be interested and he was and it spawned a freindship between the 2. The Borghegyi started the interest of studys there and vastly studied, wrote and documentented their cultures. Gordan Wasson was best mates and a pen pal of Stephen Francis Borhegyi and although Gordan Wasson didn't release any related works he helped formulate and give borhegyi ideas and made heaps of related discoveries, I know because his son Carl de Borhegyi has showed me letters between the two and i have studied them.

""Quetzalcoatl was definately not the mushrooms nor did he or it ever have any connection with mushrooms. The aztecs probably took his cult the most seriously in some ways - and there are some amazing temple ruins made by the aztecs in places like Tepoztlan and so forth. Again Aztecs and Toltecs enjoyed warfare, conquering and human sacrifice.""

Dude i've studied this hardcore, he was a mushroom god. This is a new discoverie btw you won't find it written anywhere. I have conclusive evidence. He wasn't a real person, but peopel were named Quetzalcoatl after the concept of him.

""Anyway - in summary, the zapotecs, rather than the maya were heavily involved in magic mushroom usage. The mayan may have indulged in mushroom use, but they were more concerned with resources, bickering between city states, and star gazing. They certainly never predicted the increase of novelty in 2012. Infact they predictd very little about 2012, only that their astrological time wheel finishes at a time we have predicted is 2012. Quetzalcoatl has a detailed and interesting history that changes from the mayan through to the toltecs and the aztecs and is usually connected with feathers rather than spores LOL.""

Magic mushrooms were actaully a central part and the most important part of mayan culture.

Read this, it proves that.

http://mayavasepro.webs.com/

Also it may appear funny that I think Quetzalcoatl is a msurhoom well thats because i'm a first to discover it so since its not apart of the cultural scientific zeitgeist like everything else that dosn't conform to that or is ahead of it gets rediculed.

I'd liek to make it known that these featehrs you talk about are actually the gills of the mushroom cap. Throughout mushroom mythology across the world the bird is represented as the mushroom cap, the snake,reptile or lizard the stem. This is where the concept of angel wings came from in mythology. Different parts of the mushroom looked like differnt animals and where represent as gods.

Mushrooms in mesoamerica were prettymuch considered as one of many tools used to predict the future more or less.

""Gordon Wasson was not an archaeologist.""

Like i said before his archaelogy work wasn't known about.

""Good luck in your search of the transcendental object. But you wont find it believing second hand information relayed to you by hippies LOL. Im slightly suspicious that you may have indulged maybe a little too much my friend...

Good on you I guess for believing. It sounds like your pretty convinced.""

If your 1 step ahead of someone your considered smart if your 2 steps ahead of someone your considered a crackhead, so far most of the criticism has been a result of basically people not sharing or being unaware of knowledge that i posess. But i thank you for it because i still learn from it. Also 2nd hand information from hippies is just one small spectrum I gain knowledge from and i see nothing wrong with that hippies are very turned on people with open minds and lots of great ideas.

 

[fraser miller]

Quetzalcoatl was a white Nordic. Many of the south american mysteries have racial implications more profound that botanical implications.

 

Can u please show me some kind of evidence towards this.

Quetzalcoatl was around Welllllllllll.. before mayans had even seen white people i'm pretty sure. I know that he was represented as the shroom, just like jesus he was also probably known as alot of other stuff.

[fraser miller]

I think that the issue raised about getting information more easily today compared to Mckenna's era is wrong. The reason being, is that although you're correct that finding information is easier today, it's a matter of finding the correct information. The internet is limitless with information, and anyone can say whatever they want. If I had the skills to create a legit looking website and the patience to type of some convincing theory that aliens live inside your TV and are controlling your mind with advertisements then I think it could take off, and millions of truth seekers would be describing me as the next Mckenna or something like that...

David Icke though... please.

Reptilian shapeshifters......

 

I disagree, but i could agree, if say a noob was wandering the internet they could get mislead. I regard myself as fairly professional at being able to discern wether information is correct or not. I think its extremely easier today and most of the information for my book woudl have been near impossible to find without the help of the internet.

Terrence Mckenna actaully said it himself and spoke highly of the internet and how it is tool making it easier to recieve knowledge and is one of the most positive thigns to bring about change in the world.

The internet may have some mistrustful information but the vast majority of it is actaully fairly trustworthy and you can look round and see several sources and combined with a smart rational open mind you can get an idea of whats correct and whats not.

As for The david ickle thing, You must have misread what I said. I disagree with his reptilian shapeshifters theorey BUTT as i explained ealier it contaisn a whole heap of valid inforamtion for this mushroom theorey. Hes jsut been mislead because he dosnt'realise the aliens and reptiles are actaully the mushrooms, He talks about most of ancient history being saturated with reptile symbology thats because ancients used the snake to represent the mushroom stem because when it rose they thought it looked like them. Also the great Carl Sagan wrote a book ""The Dragons of Eden: Speculations on the Evolution of Human Intelligence."" because he didn't think humans could have evolved from apes with the current theorey. Also same with the discoverer of DNA he thought we must have evolved from aliens or somethign becuase he worked otu theorectically it msut be impossible for us to have evolved the way we did. WELL GUESS WHAT all these great minds and famous people, shamans ect. have been mislead, but were thinkign rationally but didn't know how to account for this kind of stuff, they were unaware of the mushrooms so they tried to coem up with answers like reptiles and aliens, well the truth is they wern't nutters, they were on to something, the missing link, and that being that early huamsn evolved or apes evolved from mushrooms.

Edited January 27, 2011 by fraser miller

[The Dude]

Quetzalcoatl was always represented as a white guy with a beard. Like the typical old man patriarchal figure, the beard symbolising knowledge, this teacher must be a stranger considering native Americans are without facial hair, the bringer of knowledge from another place. Aint he another Thoth or Hermes? The archetype of a traveling teacher, a Jesus figure or an intermediary between us and god? A Promethean or Luciferian figure bringing the light.

This is interesting, did the Americas come into contact with whites with beards? Or is the myth based on visionary experiences of a commonly held archetype of a bearded patriarchal figure. Were they channeling a greater collective archetype?

Then there's the theories that the Nordics are actually an alien race. ...Who knows? I know that the Swedish band Meshuggah are out of this world.

Edited January 27, 2011 by The Dude

[botanika]

If one can take onboard the idea of aliens then it should be very easy to consider seeds of innovation being spread across the globe during the neolithic, over successive waves by Europeans with predominantly Nordic features (tall, fair complexion and hair, coloured eyes). For many reasons this is a controversial theory but not without a great deal of supporting evidence. Follow red hair gene's and megaliths around the globe and there's a pattern. The early paleolithic northern europeans had to deal with glaciation, neanderthals (think about how this could influence white ancestors attitudes of colonialism/slavery), mammoth, fjords, bogs, mtns so on and so forth. They became physically unique and with blonde blue eyed women, understandly 'godly'. They developed unique and often sophisticated organisation, ideas, language, art and eventually oceanic seafaring navigation, stone masonry, metalurgy and trade with the south, west and far east. The giant ‘white gods who came in ships’. The innovative explosion was warm climate black africans rapidly adapting to new habitats and species of freezing and thawing ice to the north.

The Native Americans (of mongol and earlier asiatic decent) probably had a great deal of parallel evolution and also dealt with glaciation but more as a response to retreating ice. But they did not suddenly develop highly advanced mathematics, astronomy, engineering and agriculture in contrast to their Siberian ancestry and north american indians pre colombus – they were taught how to build temples, make calenders (like other suspiciousy similar cultures were taught) and cast metal by 'bearded' Europeans who eventually ruled over them, interbred with some of them and were almost entirely wiped out by them. They sailed via the Canary Is and ultimately reached the South Pacific, possibly checking out antarctica. Antiquity is full of stories, paintings and sculpture that depict white people in places they historicly shouldn't be - even within europe itself. Many red haired caucasian mummies have been found from Nazca to Egypt to China. There are flaura and fauna anomolies. Naturally a lot of history gets edited along the way, cultural exchanges happen back and forth and time erodes but so much evidence is still right in front of us now: the origin and behaviour of the elite western and hybrid middle eastern societies. Natural selection shapes even our most sacred human creations.

Apes evolved into humans over relatively vast periods of time and in response to some extraordinary environmental changes. 'Faith' also came out of Africa long ago, as it is universal, and the ritual of religion is more important in binding together communities for mutual benefit than the actual belief, creative medium or 'drug of choice'. It doesn't matter if you put feathers in your hair, trip out on shrooms, chant Jesus hymns or DJ a club - it's the physical activities, personal interaction and knowledge exchange through myth that creates positive survival traits. We are hardwired for the supernatural. Hardwired to the concept of heroism, the afterlife and morality. Supernatural rituals that involve altered states can be achieved many ways from song, dancing, meditation as well as psychedelics. Those types of things played an important and recognised role, but whether they are the primary gamechangers is very difficult to prove. Mushrooms probably enhanced those rituals no differently than they do for us today.

Edited January 27, 2011 by botanika

[Zen Peddler]

That website just proves you are gullible fraser...

Dude i've studied this hardcore, he was a mushroom god. This is a new discoverie btw you won't find it written anywhere. I have conclusive evidence. He wasn't a real person, but peopel were named Quetzalcoatl after the concept of him

Dude I did a minor thesis on mayan civilisation so I have also studied it hardcore - and better, ive been to most of these places. Ive spoken to people who are the descendents of the maya and the zapotec about their cultures directly without any western dillution of facts or evidence. Ive seen the majority of the Mayan city state remains. When i studied it i did it properly, not just on the web.

There are many people with vested interests in trying to contrive greater significance to mushrooms in Mesoamerican cultures. The zapotecs used lots of different plants for a variety of reasons.

I dont think you've studied much Fraser, I just think you've read a few websites and a few hippy books and constructed a view that supports what you want the reality to be. Know doubt your conclusive evidence will be one or two etchings and your opinion of what they represent.

At the end of the day you've got most of the basic facts about mayan civilisation wrong, which demonstrates to me that you have nearly no idea what you are talking about.

Feel free to believe what you like, but please dont claim bullshit as fact.

[Zen Peddler]

Apes evolved into humans over relatively vast periods of time and in response to some extraordinary environmental changes. 'Faith' also came out of Africa long ago, as it is universal, and the ritual of religion is more important in binding together communities for mutual benefit than the actual belief, creative medium or 'drug of choice'

amen

[Zen Peddler]

Ill put it a different way:

I admire the fact that your preoccupying yourself with philosophical and historical issues. I admire the fact your passionate about it. Your not spending your time like the average person in society, whinging about parking or their deadend jobs or whatever.

I also acknowledge the fact that throughout history and particularly in modern times, the egos of learned academics have often shouted down and stood in the way of new theories that have changed the whole direction of an area of study - medicine is a very common scenario in this regard.

However, you need to prove your argument. You need to be unbiased; you need to apply the same critical eye to resources that support your argument as you apply to those that dont. You need to rely on primary sources - where no assumptions are made but your own - rather than secondary sources where all you get is someone's opinion of a set of facts without any clarity about what assumptions have been made.

[botanika]

Flip it around and you could have a bonanza of a book: Take readers on a journey of how humans have affected psilocybe mushrooms. I reckon you could trace a pretty clear pattern of dispersal, primarily by nordic and indo-europeans out of central north europe. They spread to all the places you currently find psilocybes. The magic mushrooms of south america may not be endemic at all but introduced from europe, just like the highest parts of their culture were.

Edited January 30, 2011 by botanika

[HeroicDose]

Here's something you might want to see;

http://www.truththeory.org/the-human-spark/

"In the caves and rock shelters of the Dordogne region of France, Alan Alda witnesses the spectacular paintings and carvings that date back some 30,000 years, artwork that archaeologists once thought to be the first record of people with minds like our own. When this art was created, Europe had already been peopled for hundreds of thousands of years, and thousands of lifetimes, by humans we call Neanderthals. Alan discovers, from visits to sites where Neanderthals once lived, that Neanderthals were tenacious and resourceful.

But they appear to have lived in and of the moment; certainly they produced no art, and employed a stone tool technology that changed little over millennia. The people who painted the caves, our ancestors, were strikingly different, possessed of what we are calling the Human Spark, capable not only of art but of innovative technology and symbolic communication.

The questions Alan explores: Where and when did the Human Spark first ignite? In these caves, as archeologists have long believed? Or at a much earlier time, and on another continent? What is the nature of human uniqueness? Where did The Human Spark ignite, and when? And perhaps most tantalizingly, why? In this three-part series, Alan Alda takes these questions personally, visiting with dozens of scientists on three continents, and participating directly in many experiments, including the detailed examination of his own brain.

Bringing his trademark humor and curiosity to face-to-face conversations with leading researchers, he seeks The Human Spark, from archaeologists finding clues in the fossilized bones and tools of our ancestors; to primatologists studying our nearest living relatives to explore what we have in common and what sets us apart; to neuroscientists peering into his mind with the latest brain scanning technologies."

I have not seen it yet but I will soon. I dare it will be helpful for you though.

[obtuse]

a couple of years ago , i was happy reading mckenna and quite happily agreeing with him; hey it made sense at the time, and the lack of references didnt bother me overly as i knew it was still mostly conjecture.

I have since returned to uni, and i now find myself even reading books by academics occassionally wondering what the paricular reference was, i.e what was the exact source of the info, as without it, it just becomes a comment instead of a potentially significant fact.

thats just me, but i think more and more of us in this community are taking this viewpoint on board, that it needs to be backed up and it needs to be factual.

You could write your book one of two ways. As:

1) fairly interesting and convincing intellectual narrative. but mostly based around personal experience and aspects of your reading list that support your conjectures. i found "cosmic serpent" by Narby a great example of this, and i will assume Pinchbecks "2012" to be the same. interesting but in the end just more blah.

or

2) An acedemic treatise, backing up everything via references, and i mean everything. while more heavy going, and for you more time consuming, this would in time be the more credible option. and even if you didnt prove your original hypothesis true, at least you tried and you have still made a contribution that can be credibly used by others.

I certainly think the acedemic path would be the way to proceed, not only for credibilities sake, but I feel it would be more rewarding for you personally, and perhaps open other avenues of research for others.

I think though this is a big one to take on, its certainly very multidisciplinary in its scope, and i think you'll have years of work just to get to a point where you feel comfortable proceding with your book. I would be more curious though about how our interection with plants containing compounds which affect our neuro/biochemistry have affected our evolution.

I take my hat off to you for trying, you certainly have a lot of courage for taking this on, and i certainly am not yet game enough to do so even for matters of much smaller scope.

good luck

Cheers, Obtuse.

[etherealdrifter]

a couple of years ago , i was happy reading mckenna and quite happily agreeing with him; hey it made sense at the time, and the lack of references didnt bother me overly as i knew it was still mostly conjecture.

I have since returned to uni, and i now find myself even reading books by academics occassionally wondering what the paricular reference was, i.e what was the exact source of the info, as without it, it just becomes a comment instead of a potentially significant fact.

thats just me, but i think more and more of us in this community are taking this viewpoint on board, that it needs to be backed up and it needs to be factual.

You could write your book one of two ways. As:

1) fairly interesting and convincing intellectual narrative. but mostly based around personal experience and aspects of your reading list that support your conjectures. i found "cosmic serpent" by Narby a great example of this, and i will assume Pinchbecks "2012" to be the same. interesting but in the end just more blah.

or

2) An acedemic treatise, backing up everything via references, and i mean everything. while more heavy going, and for you more time consuming, this would in time be the more credible option. and even if you didnt prove your original hypothesis true, at least you tried and you have still made a contribution that can be credibly used by others.

I certainly think the acedemic path would be the way to proceed, not only for credibilities sake, but I feel it would be more rewarding for you personally, and perhaps open other avenues of research for others.

I think though this is a big one to take on, its certainly very multidisciplinary in its scope, and i think you'll have years of work just to get to a point where you feel comfortable proceding with your book. I would be more curious though about how our interection with plants containing compounds which affect our neuro/biochemistry have affected our evolution.

I take my hat off to you for trying, you certainly have a lot of courage for taking this on, and i certainly am not yet game enough to do so even for matters of much smaller scope.

good luck

Cheers, Obtuse.

 

ob .. i saw narby stew that way too.

i think rab also made some valid points.yet, i concur, academic process(footnotes,qualified research, replicable results etc the way to go)

but what about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baeT3g7udho&feature=related

[HeroicDose]

Hicks was a fan of Mckenna's work and likely got the idea from him, though Hicks was a genius in his own right.

[HeroicDose]

This is taken from a piece by Dennis Mckenna; I havn't been able to view Barker's work but if I could then it seems it might clear up the endogenous DMT debate, maybe.

"DMT and its derivatives and h-carboline derivatives are widespread in the plant kingdom (Smith, 1977; Allen & Holmstedt, 1980) and both classes of alkaloids have been detected as endogenous metabolites in mammals, including man (Barker et al., 1980; Airaksinen & Kari, 1981; Bloom et al., 1982). Methyl transferases, which catalyze the synthesis of DMT, 5-methoxy-DMT, and bufotenine, have been char- acterized in human lung, brain, blood, cerebrospinal fluid, liver, and heart, and also in rabbit lung, toad, mouse, steer, guinea pig, and baboon brains, as well as in other tissues in these species (McKenna & Towers, 1984)."

[Gunter]

we and apes share a common ancestor, neither evolved from the other

[woof woof woof]

Nahhh,.... too narrow minded that fungi (or any other entheogen) in particular were responsible for us becomming human alone ...... I think all experiences we had in the millions of years led us to bring us over that bump of becoming self aware..... there are other aninmals around that have a some level of aware of them selves.

Recovering from any traumatic event in an animal does funky things to it's awarness if it survives. traumatic or heavy emotional events leaves holes in the mind that our attention automatically goes to, because our brain is programmed to do that in order to see if it can prevent that event from happening again.

Being self aware(read confident), I am sure, is very sexy..... so the apes with smarts also got the chance to have sex.

Pain and how to prevent it.... that is exactly what Buddha said... life is suffering... use your brain to minimize suffering! Only that way you can be free.

[Distracted]

Maybe you should look at animals that consume psychoactive compounds and mushrooms and see if they have any localised differences compared to the same animals in a different location that don't partake.

...if you get what I mean.

[etherealdrifter]

whoah.

it's just a funny vid from a very, funny, smart guy r.i.p.

Any inference from this video is purely coincidentamental to the current discussion.

Maybe this vid isn't meant to live here but hey......

Edited February 5, 2011 by etherealdrifter

[synchromesh]

Nahhh,.... too narrow minded that fungi (or any other entheogen) in particular were responsible for us becomming human alone ......

 

Sorry, but where has Terence claimed that?