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nitrogen

The ordinary-ness of "Eileen"

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I have growing now 3 different cuttings of Eileen, and have seen many other pics..

It seems to me that Eileen is a fairly typical bridgesii, its appearance is quite similar to other strains, of which I have 10+ growing.. All clones have their own unique look, of course, and the clones I grow I have selected for their appearance and potency (tested by either bioassay or lick test).. Eileen compares favorably, it is an attractive clone, but no more so than many of the others..

Per the perceived size and girth of Eileen - When Eileen cuttings put out pups, these pups turn into columns that aren't really any thicker than pups off most any other clone. I think the reason people associate Eileen with great thickness is because the batch of cuttings that went around were taken off Ed's huge mother plant which had been growing in the ground for many years. I suspect many or most bridgesii clones, if planted in the ground and left to grow for a decade, would get nice and fat as well..

Comparing pics of that plant to pics of other mature bridgesii (such as in pics of Bolivia etc), Eileen looks about like the other ones as far as thickness goes..

Also, while it is robust in growth, it is no more so than several other bridgesii I have growing..

It is not overrun with the black rot, but also not impervious - I have seen the black pus bubbles form on Eileen also..

It is also no more bitter, and actually less bitter than a couple other un-named clones bought in the USA.. I have not bio-assayed it yet, but I am going predict that 2% alkaloid is fairly common among bridgesii, and that Eileen is not remarkably potent compared to many other bridgesii..

I suspect that the reason Eileen is thought of as so potent is related to the age and size of the chunks people were consuming - eating a 1'x12"x4-5" thick chunk of any good bridgesii would be a quite strong experience, and all bridgesii (and San Pedro in general) are known for "magical" and "healing" type experiences..

The vast majority of bridgesii clones have not been tested or even bio-assayed, and we have never seen most or even many of these fully grown as we have seen with Eileen. I suspect that over time, as more un-named clones are tested, and more are grown to maturity, the Eileen clone will come to be seen as not so remarkable..

It is nevertheless a beautiful and good-growing cactus, and one of my favorites..

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Ditto on that nitrogen. Very well said.

~Michael~

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So what is the best bridge clone in everyones opinion?

Edited by sharxx101

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I don't really understand where this thread is heading nor the point of it? Not to put it down, that's not what i mean, hard to explain i guess.

afaik eileen is a very mature plant adapted to some specific conditions in Australia; a very robust clone with decent disease resistance and able to handle large amounts of rainfall; she's grown up in a spot where she seems particularly happy.

Her well aged stems give rise to strong fat growth and it appears from talk favourable spiritually.

Having such a mature plant with good genetics is exciting for this continent, if this is seen as hype then so be it?

Talking about an individual clone is not particularly hype IMO, each seedling will be genetically individual and any negatives / positives in the short and longterm being discussed are simply that and allow for a multitude of pathways of use with that knowledge be it breeding etc.

Absolutely all these 'clones' show traits that lump them together as species, at times specific clones are easy to lump into specific categories whilst at others they can look more or less identical; but that still does not avoid the fact of individual uniqueness.

If eileen is vigorous that's good, if another clone of bridgesii is vigorous then that's good...there are bound to be less vigorous clones of bridgesii aswell, so in that regard, yes eileen is special, better than the other vigorous bridgesii? not necessarily, it's just specific to context IMO and she is individually unique.

If people are getting frustrated about 'hype' regarding eileen, just start assessing and documenting all the other clones; i see the talk more so as communication of biological information of genetically unique individuals.

Eileen is different to a seed grown bridgesii i have, but they both look bridgesii, both of them are not ordinary in any way shape or form :wub::wink:

In no way am i putting you or the post down, but this just seems like logic that we already know? I don't understand the point of the thread :)

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Well by hype I mean that the Eileen clone has been elevated to a semi-mythical or at least exalted status among bridgesii clones on these boards, such that people pay good money for it and sometimes covet it greatly if they don't already have one growing.

The reason for this is widespread adoration for certain traits that Eileen exhibits: robust growth, girth, potency, rot resistance, and beauty. There are also sentiments to the effect that Eileen possesses these traits to a degree above and beyond other bridgesii clones. Eileen is very much seen as more desirable than other clones by many many people.

The point of this thread is certainly not to trash Eileen, but more to open people's eyes to the fact that, if this was just an un-named clone growing on USA soil, or in random people's collections, it may not have garnered any real attention.

This is good news, because it means there are a whole slew of bridgesii clones that seem equal to Eileen in the traits that make Eileen appear so desirable.. My own interest is piqued by this, and I think the future is promising and likely involves the discovery of other excellent clones/strains of bridgesii..

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Well by hype I mean that the Eileen clone has been elevated to a semi-mythical or at least exalted status among bridgesii clones on these boards, such that people pay good money for it and sometimes covet it greatly if they don't already have one growing.

The reason for this is widespread adoration for certain traits that Eileen exhibits: robust growth, girth, potency, rot resistance, and beauty. There are also sentiments to the effect that Eileen possesses these traits to a degree above and beyond other bridgesii clones. Eileen is very much seen as more desirable than other clones by many many people.

The point of this thread is certainly not to trash Eileen, but more to open people's eyes to the fact that, if this was just an un-named clone growing on USA soil, or in random people's collections, it may not have garnered any real attention.

This is good news, because it means there are a whole slew of bridgesii clones that seem equal to Eileen in the traits that make Eileen appear so desirable.. My own interest is piqued by this, and I think the future is promising and likely involves the discovery of other excellent clones/strains of bridgesii..

Am in definite agree-ence to the future is bright and more and more interesting clones will be discovered, as they are being and already have been in places like here for example. Not only that but figuring out what each clone is seems achievable to an extent, vague genetic lineages i mean, maybe even some relatively tight ones.

Agree to an extent regarding it going un-noticed if planted on US soil or in a large collection etc, but that simply comes back to the fact of each plant is unique in it's own right, when she is finally studied for whatever reason she will be different and unique to the next seed grown specimen. I think she will however be noticed visually as distinct from the next seed grown specimen, be it even if it is for a single month of uniqueness in a year then goes back to looking like the rest.

I can't speak for everyone, just some vague blanketing comments i guess hehe :)

Cacti culture of this chapter to me seems young in this country, the discovery / release / market abundance of particular plants and or clones at particular times can cause a wave of demand and excitement. Positive experiences can detract from more work with other clones, however this is more or less only static for a small time period IMO. Once people pass the honeymoon phase, get a rational mind, assessment on why and where the person needs to go may allow for more branching into other clones or simply sticking with what works for them.

I can see that we are essentially in agree-ence with each other, just wording things differently or looking it at from a different perspective coming to the same conclusion, but to me i still dont understand the point of the thread LOL

I can definitely agree that the goodness of one clone should not detract from the intense study of future work and discoveries, which is what you are getting at i guess? Probably would have been easier just to say that lol

Cheers mate, have a good one :):wub:

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ditto ditto seconded and thirded

I wasnt aware 'Eileen' held some sort of king of the bridgesii crown at all...but yeh as far as clones go it certainly is in that upper escalation 2%+ range (along with many others)

eileen just has a strange sexiness to her (bit like dc) IMO

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yep, it's just a cactus like others, and i have allways treated this clone like any other, and i think the eileen hype had to do with, that it was rare for a while.

it's magical status probably has to do with it's potency and a sence of uniqueness of the experience, but i guess similar cacti strains like bruce for example will produce similar effects.

so basicly for me, if one hasen't tried eileen, one would not have experienced this uniquness, hence the topicstarter would probably express himselfe differently if he had.

basicly the topicstarter is judging the book by it's cover, which might be ok for books but not for ethnogenics.

i guess most of the eileen hype, was a product of what i might call "americanism", the fact that yankees make everything bigger and better than it actualy is.

so it's funny for me to see, how some north american posters are complaining about something, which to my own reasoning, they have created mostly for themselfes.

but don't worry, a few years down the track, the same thing might happen to eilleen, like what happend for example to budweiser, haha.

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Now now, take it easy on the Yankees.. I think there's been a fair amount of hype by the Aussies as well - remember it was the Aussie hype that led to the Yankees getting all excited about Eileen.. I would say Eileen has not discriminated by nationality when inducing hype :)

I think "hype" may have been too strong a word though, and it sounds perjorative.. Maybe there's a better and less antagonizing word I could have used..

I really don't mean to come off like I'm putting the cactus or its fans down, and hope I'm not coming off as "complaining"..

Gerbil - per the point of this thread: this forum is devoted to the study of psychoactive cacti - their growth habits, sacramental usage, morphology, potency, etc etc. Opening a discussion about a well known bridgesii clone and the way it compares to other bridgesii clones in these parameters seems highly relevant to me.. To my mind this is exactly the sort of information that helps us get a better sense of this world of psychoactive cacti that we involve ourselves in..

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Well I haven't been growing her that long so I can't comment on certain things but I will say Eileen has been the first plant for me to produce a pup more than a ft. from the ground. This is quite unique for a smallish cutting that's only been in the ground a year IME, so I am hesitant to call her ordinary.

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my theory is that if a plant is allowed to grow to full maturity it can develop more complex metabolic cycles,the tetrahydroisoquinaline cycles for instance,and that this can result in a more potent plant.

i think eileen is a good example of this and so deserves recognition,maybe not public though,as a superior form.

t s t .

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My ~7" Eileen cut survived in a neighbor's mailbox in below freezing temps for over 2 weeks, possibly 3. Obviously I haven't compared other cacti to it in that respect but it was pretty impressive. It could have been a fluke, maybe unrooted cuttings are more cold tolerant than planted cacti, but during that same time period of all of my planted cacti in a greenhouse perished. Perhaps others can share their experience regarding Eileen's cold-hardiness, specifically when potted?

Edited by kakti

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Eileen is one of the fastest growing cacti in my collection. And I mean, really fast. More to the point, my eileen is sitting in a half wine barrel from which water cannot escape. During winter it sits in about an inch of water above soil level without a worry, for one or two months at a time. It doesn't get too cold here (never lower than 0, -1), but is very exposed and dramatic day/nighttime temperature fluctuation causes problems in early spring, but eileen just powers along when other plants tend to do a bit of etiolation. I think eileen is a beautiful cultivar and look forward to seeing her as a large plant, but do agree, the differences between eileen and other mature bridgessii's in not extremely distinct, tho still present IMO. No bioassays from me, so I wouldn't know in that regard. From the sound of it tho, most mature bridges are fairly strong. Each plant will have its own character tho depending on environment + genetics.

Edited by Micromegas

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Oh i dunno bout that :P The three top pups on this psycho0 arent what interest me though, its the 8 basal pups that suprise me!

post-1464-1230954781_thumb.jpg

Mite be a bridgesoid trait or more to do with soil make up, me thinks the latter.

In the same garden Eileen is growing at the same speed as the T. pach plants, im yet to be impressed with her growth patterns. As for cold hardiness, well i think all bridgies like the cold, some of the ones i have seem to grow alot better during the winter months even though we get good frosts throughout winter, the plants in question are in the ground though rather than pots which would make a big difference. None of my trichs have suffered ill effect from freezing temps whether in a pot or not.

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Below freezing is one thing, prolonged exposure to sub freezing temps with dips down to -10 C is another thing.

The bridgesii in my collection are the least cold hardy of my trichs, but Eilleen is the most cold hardy of the bridgesii in my care.

I have been excited about this clone due to it's vigor in my climate. Many other clones and seedlings have not stacked up. Cold hardiness is my biggest concern, and I test my plants every winter.

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True pisgah, not many places here in Au though have day time temps in winter that are below 0C so this sort of continued freezing weather with snow included that you guys often get in US isnt of much concern here but i guess would be a reason there to seek her out.

One thing people havent mentioned is flowering, which for me is an important part of a clones properties, i have only SEEN a mention of flowering and never a picture! Im sure this clone has been in circulation for some time and someone must have a plant of flowering age??? Or have i missed pics of Eds mother plant in bloom?

Edited by PD.

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yeah thats true i ahve been wishing to see eieleens flowers for a long time, mine havent flowered

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Im pretty sure that there are some pics of Ed's Eileen flowering but dont quote me on it. send him a PM?

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Bridgesii/bridgesoids are fairly reluctant to flower from what I've seen but Psych0 may be an exception? In fact most tricho's are, especially at a young age. Common pachanoi and scopulicola seem the easiest.

Edited by strangebrew

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Been interested in this thread but thought I'd wait a while before making any comments. And even commenting was a bit of a toss-up as I'm gonna have some eileen cuts for sale in the near future, so makes me look financially concerned.

For starters, Eileen's pro physical qualities (in my opinion) would be low-temp tolerance, resistance to rainfall and rot, growth-rate, and ability to change form. The first three were what intersested me most, as, at the time, I was having a hard time acclimatizing cactii.

And in the fifteen-odd years since then, due to health-related neglect, my garden has been totally overrun by weeds and blackberries. ALL of my entheogenic plants are dead bar Eileen, a pach of particular hardiness (but no other outstanding qualities), a stand of spach that have proved tougher than the weeds and even done a fair job of keeping the blackeberries at bay, and a small H. salicifolia hedge. Cactii four feet high with multiple limbs were all overtaken by the bush and eventually rotted away.

To me, this speaks of Eileen's hardiness, and suitability in such a wet, cold climate.

Another interesting issue is the variance in spination/ribbing shown on individual limbs. Rib numbers change frequently, as does spine formation and total lack thereof (which are qualities that I'm unaware of in another bridgesoid form).

Obviously growing (even three) cuttings in an arid climate will cause them problems and restrict their growth etc, they normally get close to a meter of rain/year plus watering. Shit, I spent four years trying to get a (very good spp of) A. nervosa vine going here but it was just too cold. It'd grow reasonably well all year 'til the cold and the frosts. Didn't make the plant any more "ordinary"

And Michael, how about an answer for once? Not like it's the first time I've asked.

You've been nay-saying this cactus for several years now with *very* little personal experience, yet you were able to positively identify the same pic of the plant as two different cactii - possibly three. What gives?

And just to keep it scientific

the clones I grow I have selected for their appearance and potency (tested by either bioassay or lick test)

It is also no more bitter, and actually less bitter than a couple other un-named clones bought in the USA.. I have not bio-assayed it yet, but I am going predict that 2% alkaloid is fairly common among bridgesii, and that Eileen is not remarkably potent compared to many other bridgesii..

re flowering

One thing people havent mentioned is flowering, which for me is an important part of a clones properties, i have only SEEN a mention of flowering and never a picture! Im sure this clone has been in circulation for some time and someone must have a plant of flowering age??? Or have i missed pics of Eds mother plant in bloom?

Mate, I'm in the middle of a hard-drive-swap and have files backed up all over the place. As soon as I come across them I'll post the pics. She only ever flowered twice, the last time was about three years back and something then seemed to set trich's off all over the country. I spread a bit of pollen aroumd, but the only one I heard positive results from was Ordine of Urban Tribes.They're pretty shitty disposable camera pics though :( . A lot of pics and info went with EBA.

ed

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Mate, I'm in the middle of a hard-drive-swap and have files backed up all over the place. As soon as I come across them I'll post the pics. She only ever flowered twice, the last time was about three years back and something then seemed to set trich's off all over the country. I spread a bit of pollen aroumd, but the only one I heard positive results from was Ordine of Urban Tribes.They're pretty shitty disposable camera pics though . A lot of pics and info went with EBA.

Cool, thanks Ed would appreciate that. Flowering only twice seems a lil odd even for a bridge, from what i have read in the past your mother plant is quiet large no? I guess with al the cutting back to keep people in the supply of the clone may be a reason or are there large branches capable of forming flowers?. Do other trichos in your area flower readily?

IMO rib shifting and changes in spination wouldnt really be a "quality" as such and is something i have noticed on a couple other bridgesoids. Actually, i take that back as semi monstrose traits in a cacti are something i look for and do add to the overall quality of a plant. Although basic rib shifting is a far cry from the sort of semi monstrose traits i look for.

One more thing, sorry bout all the Qs Ed :P, do you have any idea at all where the plant was originally sourced? I think i have read it was a gift from your mum but where did she get it from and was it a rooted cutting or a seedling? If it was a cutting then there is/was obviously another large plant of the same somewhere which with all things considered should still be kicking unless chopped into a hundred lil bits and poisoned or bulldozed into the ground.

Overall, in my garden ( SO FAR! ) Eileen looks like a standard form of bridgesii and like mentioned is growing no faster than regular T. pach, which does grow relatively well mind you. We dont get the huge amounts of rainfall Ed gets down there in gumboot country though so getting too wet isnt really of concern and i guess after another year her root mass my reach a stage for optimum growth but it should be there already since the plant has been in ground since autumn 2007 and others around it are going nuts. My plant is no monster though and it wil be a few more years of growth that may make the difference, its a bit rough saying a plant is ordinary only after a couple of years observation as we all know these things take time. Climate is major factor for all cacti though IMO as i have some clones that grow quiet fast in my area where in other areas people have mentioned they dont grow fast at all.

I just hope i can get her to flower in the next few years, seems to be a good climate here for flowering.

GO BRIDGESII :)

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And Michael, how about an answer for once? Not like it's the first time I've asked.

You've been nay-saying this cactus for several years now with *very* little personal experience, yet you were able to positively identify the same pic of the plant as two different cactii - possibly three. What gives?

ED, forgive me..an answer to what? I'm obviously blanking. Sorry. :unsure:

But I can assure you I haven't been "nay-saying" the plant for "several years now", as I have probably only said two or three times in all these years (besides my "ditto" above) that I didn't see it as particularly worthy of the attention its gotten...God forbid. Now what can you expect from someone like myself, "with *very* little personal experience" with the plant, other than to challenge others to justify the inflated view of it. I'm happy to have a little Eileen though.

I am finally happy to see a bit of that justification in this thread; responses which hadn't come to any challenge or "nay-saying" I've provided, but rather to nitrogen's comments which were well worth making and lead to a thread which may only further the attention this plant gets and reward you better in the future...if you know what I mean. :wink:

And as for my "positively identifying the same pic of the plant as two different cactii - possibly three", well I share opinions as much as the next and I doubt I gave any opinion on this plant outside of it fitting into T. bridgesii. I can't recall my ever having made an attempt to "positively identify" any particular clone of T. bridgesii, especially this one as I haven't paid a whole lot of attention to it to begin with.

Good luck with the sales in the future. As for me I am a very poor salesman cause I'm very poor at inflating the worth of anything.

~Michael~

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Good luck with the sales in the future. As for me I am a very poor salesman cause I'm very poor at inflating the worth of anything.

~Michael~

Buahahaha, way to see through his cunning marketing scam. My eyes have been opened.

I like Eileen, first cactus I ever got, hardy little thing she is, so far seems to be the quickest most solid thing i've got, in an admitedly small collection. I love her so much i literally wank off over her.. "come on Eileen" <--- hehe lame i know. sorry

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