San Pedro- beneath the skin...

[platypii]

Hey there.... I have searched, but I really have no idea how to really phrase what I'm wanting to know- the question relates to the common 'fact' that T. Pachanoi and other mescaline containg catcii have the highest concentration of alkaloids in the green, jellyish layer just beneath the waxy skin. For starters, is this true, and what exact alakaloids beside 3,4,5 are there.... Anyway, I sha;; be ingesting strips of that layer (SKINNED, DESPINED), dired out, ground and encapsulated; the question is how far do I cut inwards from the skin to fully get to this most of this nice bit ( I'm not worried about losing mescaline that much- I just cannot eat 12" of San Pedro), and not getting the fibrous, mealy centre parts....

I hope this makes sense and is approriate.

Sam

[teonanacatl]

12" of san pedro will not give you any effects, maybe 12 foot How far to cut in is anyones guess, though most people remove the core. A better bet if you lived somwhere where it was legal would be to boil it up and boil down to a drinkable amount.

[tonic]

FOAF has acheived decent effects from 1 foot of San Pedro [think it was the Backeberg clone?].

Agree with teo, make a tea where legal.

[XipeTotec]

12" of san pedro will not give you any effects, maybe 12 foot How far to cut in is anyones guess, though most people remove the core. A better bet if you lived somwhere where it was legal would be to boil it up and boil down to a drinkable amount.

is it really that weak?

[chilli]

is it really that weak?

Of course not, I am not sure what Teo meant by this... a typo I guess. 1 foot, maybe a little more depending on gender/body mass etc will be more than sufficient with the vast majority of T.Pachanoi, when used as a tea anyway... maybe he was using hyperbole to say the flesh will be milder?

If you take the tea approach, just be sure to do three things (again, assuming you are doing this in a country where legal):

1. Boil it down to as small amount as possible without making it too syrupy, three full shot glasses is a good amount per foot, but it will be a little more before step 2.

2. Thoroughly strain the liquid through a shirt a couple of times... you can hang the shirt above a pot in a ball with the plant matter in it (from a cupbiard door or something) and let it sit there dripping until it stops, then squeeze it. Let it sit in the fridge for a couple of weeks at least, until the white stuff settles to the bottom, then siphon off the now clearer dark liquid. You can repeat this a couple of times over a couple of months for a much easier to drink liquid. Repeated freezing and thawing seems to help break down the viscosity a bit.

3. Don't slam it all down at once, space it out over a period of about 45min but no more, as the nausea will start to hit around an hour in... one shot glass done as a shot every 15min is apparently a good measure.

Of course, a lot of people report good success with dried outer flesh as well, but it will be a considerably milder experience using the same amounts and perhaps cause greater gastric distress. Another of course, there are lots of teks and posts around with all this info on them, but its less hassle to type it out than to try and search for it and link.

Edited August 7, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[teonanacatl]

well normal backenburg clone doesnt get a good rap potency wise, ive always assumed a potency of around 0.1% dry weight in my home grown plants (this would require 500g dried for 500mg which is 5kg fresh which is about 10 foot). A foot of my plants weighs in at approx 500g which is approx 50g dried, a dose is 500mg (starts here for me) which comes in at 1% which isnt unreasonable but would have expected less attention to its unpotency if this were the case. If your foot was fat and weighed 1kg thats onl 0.5% which is much more believable.

Really it comes down to try it yourself and see.

Edited August 7, 2007 by teonanacatl

[benjahman]

Edited October 17, 2007 by benjahman

[chilli]

well normal backenburg clone doesnt get a good rap potency wise, ive always assumed a potency of around 0.1% dry weight in my home grown plants (this would require 500g dried for 500mg which is 5kg fresh which is about 10 foot). A foot of my plants weighs in at approx 500g which is approx 50g dried, a dose is 500mg (starts here for me) which comes in at 1% which isnt unreasonable but would have expected less attention to its unpotency if this were the case. If your foot was fat and weighed 1kg thats onl 0.5% which is much more believable.

Really it comes down to try it yourself and see.

Wow, that sucks to get such a small yield from Pachanoi... is that common in Aus?

Apparently an average of a foot or slightly more per person is always been enough for a very powerful experience for a variety of people when prepared as a tea... you must have a hard head or a penchant for ego-dissolution if that is a starting dose for you!

BTW, does anyone know the potency of the Pachs at FunkyFungus? Are they 'normal' Backeberg clones, or something else?

Edited October 17, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[teonanacatl]

obviously the fatter the more weight in a foot length so more potent. I dont doubt that people have plants which are strong enough to take a foot of cactus for a dose, just in be wary that this seems the exception rather then the rule. Rev's i would think are backenburgs but you would have to check with him.

[t st tantra]

Hey there.... I have searched, but I really have no idea how to really phrase what I'm wanting to know- the question relates to the common 'fact' that T. Pachanoi and other mescaline containg catcii have the highest concentration of alkaloids in the green, jellyish layer just beneath the waxy skin. For starters, is this true, and what exact alakaloids beside 3,4,5 are there.... Anyway, I sha;; be ingesting strips of that layer (SKINNED, DESPINED), dired out, ground and encapsulated; the question is how far do I cut inwards from the skin to fully get to this most of this nice bit ( I'm not worried about losing mescaline that much- I just cannot eat 12" of San Pedro), and not getting the fibrous, mealy centre parts....

I hope this makes sense and is approriate.

Sam

i have a basic rule that i dont work with any cut that has not sat for 6 weeks after removal,i beleive this maximises content of wanted substance.

when just cut the green area under the skin can have a fuzzy border and the center can have colour to it.

after 6 weeks the border is distinct and the rest of the flesh whitish.remove only the green part.

using this method in a long hot summer climate 12in is often enough.

more ribs means more surface area, may mean greater yield.

t s t .

[Humanfuel]

obviously the fatter the more weight in a foot length so more potent. I dont doubt that people have plants which are strong enough to take a foot of cactus for a dose, just in be wary that this seems the exception rather then the rule. Rev's i would think are backenburgs but you would have to check with him.

1.5kg of Pach purchased from Rev boiled down and reduced ended up being the most entertaining day of my life....!!!!!!

....as said earlier by Teo.... I don't measure by size.... but more by weight....!!!!.... and this is all dependent on strain and conditions grown in I guess....!!!!!

[Monk]

t st, is it recommended to leave the cut in the sun or shade during the 6 week period? Some above average potency from live potted plants placed in shade (indoors) has been noted around here as well. It would be interesting to compare outdoor fresh use, cut/shade stored indoor use, and potted plants stored in low light prior to use. This would help to reveal weather it is the stress of cutting or lack of light that is most effective....hmm...

BTW, here in Cali potency varies greatly as well, but my FOAF says that most mature, in-ground T. pachs that are not overly cared for are good at 200 grams wet and full blown at 400-500 grams. One time, however, 28 g. dried material from a window sill grown (college) T. pach that had been injected with regular doses of l-tyrosine for several months led to most intense cactus experience ever! 15 hrs. going 18 total til sleep. underwater world where all solids swayed in the current, undersea creature-people with bubbles rising from words, whole housing complexes shifting around in the distance, unseen presences following him through the trees. So and so would never do this now because he loves his plants, but it works.

[gamma.goblin]

injected with regular doses of l-tyrosine for several months

dont spose you could get any more specific info regarding dosage, frequency, and method of administration? The only stuff Ive read is gottliebs reports.

Though the only way I can see to gain usefull info is by direct comparison of multiple specimens grown in the same controlled enviroment. It needs someone who is very skilled at accelerated indoor cacti growth, and who is also able to perform alkaloid content analysis *nudge* *wink*

[platypii]

Hey yall, thank ye for the replies. The catus in question, I could not tell you anything of its history- all I know is that I was gifted it by a foaf who grows- I'll just ask said indivdual. This cutting (that I'm currently wining and dining) is over 12", would weigh in the 1.5 kg region, and has seven ribs. I'll see how I go with the method I mentioned; I have not a lot of experience with mescaline, limited to violent upheavals of mucusy mush; I have a very "difficult' stomach (I would 'imagine' LSD would 'possibly' make me puke) and have not gotten very far into the dream I have access to a fair bit of pre-harvested cactii, and whilst I'm not a wasteful soul, nor am I clingy or frugal, so I will be able to attempt several (4) methods of preparation- upon reaching a successful method I will hopefully no longer be wasteful of the plant.

On a side note, would anyone be able to suggest some reading (ie. books or website) where I can get a good understanding of cactii, including psychoactives- I could not tell you anything about the various strains, specimens, clones whatnot, and knowledge is powder man.

Peace, willow11

[Monk]

Well, gamma, I don't wanna hijack willow's thread so I'll post it in the thread that predates both of us dealing with this issue. I've just never been inspired to post it because it was 6-7 years ago and I kept poor records due to immaturity/substance abuse of the memory impairing kind If you don't see it by tomorrow night, you can remind me via PM.

t st tantra, my questions for you were the real reason I wrote that last post, but I got distracted. The questions still stand, though. Thanks.

FM

[robots]

hello,

pedro is superb, and find over many years is relaible as, dark green specimens

12" is reasonable, use all of white core if not too woody, if at base of cacti then would be too woody, but higher up white core is softer and therefore use it all

benjahman's tek on cacti tea is very good and you could most likely get down to a nice golf ball

do gardenworld have bridgesi?

thankyou

robots

[benjahman]

hello,

pedro is superb, and find over many years is relaible as, dark green specimens

12" is reasonable, use all of white core if not too woody, if at base of cacti then would be too woody, but higher up white core is softer and therefore use it all

benjahman's tek on cacti tea is very good and you could most likely get down to a nice golf ball

do gardenworld have bridgesi?

thankyou

robots

Hey Robots I have seen them there in the past but don't know if they keep them regularly in stock or anything. If your happy to wait a while and watch them grow Reville who is a member here sells seedlings as well as 30cm+ bridgesii from his website http://funkyfungus.com

(seedlings obviously the go cash wise if you have that extra inch of patience). Bridge is also traded and sold on the forums and swapnsell website pretty regularly.

Good luck with it

namaste

ben

Edited October 17, 2007 by benjahman

[chilli]

i have a basic rule that i dont work with any cut that has not sat for 6 weeks after removal,i beleive this maximises content of wanted substance.

when just cut the green area under the skin can have a fuzzy border and the center can have colour to it.

after 6 weeks the border is distinct and the rest of the flesh whitish.remove only the green part.

using this method in a long hot summer climate 12in is often enough.

more ribs means more surface area, may mean greater yield.

t s t .

I also have noticed the separation of color t st, but it was comparing cuttings left outside in shade and partial sun with cuttings left in a cupboard... the ones left outside were a much darker green and the difference between green and white was more noticeable.

Edited October 17, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[chilli]

well normal backenburg clone doesnt get a good rap potency wise, ive always assumed a potency of around 0.1% dry weight in my home grown plants (this would require 500g dried for 500mg which is 5kg fresh which is about 10 foot). A foot of my plants weighs in at approx 500g which is approx 50g dried, a dose is 500mg (starts here for me) which comes in at 1% which isnt unreasonable but would have expected less attention to its unpotency if this were the case. If your foot was fat and weighed 1kg thats onl 0.5% which is much more believable.

Teo, I have been reading potency threads around the forum, and came upon your post from a couple of months back:

"I would estimate average pachanoi between 0.7% and 1% depending on how it was grown. "

In light of this, why do you say 12" will not give much effect? Actually, earlier in that same thread I just quoted from you suggested 5 foot of Pachanoi would be needed for a dose... I'm confused? There do seem to be some very weak Pachs around where a foot will not give any effects, but it sounds like this was exception rather than the rule.

Edited October 17, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[Auxin]

If people have 0.1% pachanois why not chop them down and replace them with seed grown plants?

You'd get new genetics, unique non-clone plants, and the 0.1% plant parts need not go to waste, you could use them to speed up growth of lophs or slower trichs for a year or 2.

Graft a terschekii on top, let it grow into a big ball, remove the meat off the pach taking it down to the woody core, dry the whole thing, tie on a few feathers, put it on your porch, tell drunk people its a magic spiked club left there by a peruvian shaman who came to admire your cacti and that ayahuasca elf spirits live inside the spike ball and protect your lophs from the wandering spirits of recently deceased born-agains who swore to haunt your pagan cacti from beyond the grave.

[nitrogen]

LOL, that's fuckin hilarious!

I'm just the sort of bloke who needs something like that too!

[Monk]

What's 'fuckin hilarious'? I think he was serious and I agree completely with all of it

[teonanacatl]

Foaf is going to test the cuboard myth somtime. Though the change in the layers is easily rationalised. If your a cactus in the full sun alot of light will penetrate through many cellular layers so inorder to make the mmost of this you will probably have chlorophyll extending several cm under surface. This infact also stops photodamage. When placed in dark place not so much light therefore will not penetrate as deep thereforemove chlorophyll to surface.

The 12 foot was an extreme remark, though im thinking now those numbers you say are off by a factor of 10 and should say 0.1% and 0.07%. The point of it is that 1 foot that weights 500g aint gonna do much if its a backenburg pachanoi.

Auxin the 0.1% plants are good grafting stock and i doubt ive ever suggested anyone should grow them for mescaline :D

Really what i say can be wrong and people should test it themselves. Willow should try it and see, only then will he know.

[chilli]

...im thinking now those numbers you say are off by a factor of 10 and should say 0.1% and 0.07%

Okay, but I wonder if this is representative of the 'average' Pach in Australia. What I'm thinking is that because Bridgesii is so rare here and Bridge Monsters almost nonexistent, all the focus has been on strong Pachs, which has caused them to proliferate.

Edited October 17, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[Monk]

Yeah, IllegalBrain, the same trend is apparent around my part of the world, as well. I never considered, though, that it may be those pesky cactus growers behind the scenes selecting for potency. That would imply that people like us have had a foothold in that industry for some time now, which is a comforting thought. BTW, I only just now took notice of your signature. The second quote is particularly significant in my life lately. Funny how that works. The Sarte quote, though, seems odd. When I see the gratuitousness of everything, it makes me feel completely free and easy. Maybe I'm just irresponsible, but anyway...

FM