Dmt as an antipsychotic?

[Salviador]

I have recently heard reports that dmt can reduce the need for antipsychotic medication and nervous tics. I don't have much more information than that, other than it was compared to mushrooms for migraines.

Anyone else hear of such stuff?

Intuitively I wouldn't offer dmt to people with psychosis, but on second thoughts it could scare them straight

[Rev]

Lol the defibrillator of psychiatry

[mescalito]

Probably more so than you would think, it should be on the P.B.S.

Psychotic episodes,continuing psychosis or the 'less' intense froms such as bi-polar,depression,anxiety panic etc...these conditions seem to have an endless sense of "stalling" of your life,ambition,creativity happiness and integration.In other words whilst one is in the grip of a phase however acute or long the duration one feels trapped in a weird timeless space yet awkwardly humanlike....like groundhog day

A friend showed up at my place once after 1/2 doz scooners sat on my lounge and knocked off 12 woodstock's in under 2 hours which is not much for him.The poor guy has alc brain damgage and is in my opinion untreated dual-diagnosis... but anyway he starts repeating himself and swaying and forgetting where his drink is etc.Meanwhile another mate rocks up, sees him in a state and packed one for him,Wow!.. I mean I've never seen anyone sober up so quickly in my life! and IMO he changed a lot from that one experience and so did my feelings as an observer about this type of therapy if it were to be properly investigated.

Puff...WTF!!??...not human?...nothing!...everything...new...is this me?

all done in under an hour

[Legba]

i spoke with a dwarf wearing a pointy hat on the bus the other day that claimed that it is definately treating his psychopathology. he described a loosening effect, felt in his sloar plexus region that has been there for years. he is confident that further applications including some aya sessions carried out in a respectful manner (following the dieta as a preparation and follow-up) will yield results prieviously unimaginable to him prior to trying this form of medication.

of course it would be wrong to assume that the same results would occur for all bus-riding dwarves :D

[findbuddha]

dmt world thread

[cisumevil]

I have also seen DMT used once by someone suffering Depression and after 30 minutes or so the person said WOW why didn't the Doctor give me this stuff. To this day this person is off all medication and is doing just fine after 4+ months.

[Amulte]

Shit yeah its effective. when i 1st started tests i found i was getting very very little effect from it, most will assume it was over heated. then some time after, without changing heating method at all i get more of an effect. for years ive had a faulty pineal gland and failed to produce sufficent serotonin primarily amongst other bio-chems. the DMT slowly but surely after maybe use one per 2 weeks, things in my life including outlook, sleeping patterns and psychotic episodes such all began to change for the better. tho i was medicated at the time with pharms, still found they were not working. after the occassional use in the right setting, some meditation pryor to it it began to become more effective and more profound. now im self medicated with herbs, tryptophan and vitamin B's to maintain the balance DMT gave me.

In summary, i have come to the conclusion that through the use of DMT, my pineal gland was kicked into gear and began to function properly once more. to use a metaphore, the gears of my pineal gland were rusted up and barely moving round. the DMT was the WD-40 that lubes up the gears to get them to spin. it wont work right away with one spray WD-40, nore with constant sprays WD-40, but when you come back and spray a little more and move them a little bit every now and then youll eventually get it moving well again.

ALSO id like to ad i conducted this research in a country where it was legal to. its called Davetopia

[faustus]

interesting stuff, but you guys do realise that DMT is used as a model for schizophrenia and that atypical antipsychotics antagonise the same serotonin receptors that DMT and other hallucinogens affect (5-HT 2a/2c)? anyone with schizophrenia should be very careful about taking any mind-altering drugs, particularly when said drug affects the same receptors involved in their pathology.

BTW are we talking DMT or ayahuasca? i wonder how much of an antidepressant effect of aya would be accounted for by the MAOI. from personal experience (in countries where it's legal) aya helped my depression in the short-term, but eventually it returned. it'd be interesting to see what the effects would be if you had a trained therapist on hand and/or did it regularly.

[cisumevil]

In regards to my post it was smoked DMT

[wandjina]

I dunno about dmt, per se, as an antipsychotic...but that recent article by Jacob and Presti in the journal medical hypotheses (did you post that ref twix?...if so, couldn't find it again) made a convincing case for DMT being an endogenous anxiolytic.

I've heard from several sources that it does wonders for depression and anxiety...but psychosis, that's another kettle of fish

[Amulte]

interesting stuff, but you guys do realise that DMT is used as a model for schizophrenia and that atypical antipsychotics antagonise the same serotonin receptors that DMT and other hallucinogens affect (5-HT 2a/2c)? anyone with schizophrenia should be very careful about taking any mind-altering drugs, particularly when said drug affects the same receptors involved in their pathology.

Anything involving serotonin and schizophrenia should be avoided at all costs frm my readings. Tryptophan if fail to metabolize can cause severe reactions some resulting in schizophrenia. DMT would ONLY be ideal treat a specific type of disorder. for example i fall into the catagory of Bi-Polar due to the faulty pineal gland, but im not Bi-Polar type 1 or 2. hence why most treatments failed for me. due to my lack of serotonin, anything that would increase production of serotonin is found to be most effective. tho the pharms that work like that rely on serotonin production to still be some what regular. not in efficent or abscent. my new self treatments with occassional careful psychidelic use (to face parts of myself i may be ignoring) has proven to be the most effective treatment. i have come much further in 6-12 months than i have in the 5-10 years of professional legal treatment. yes the changes may be temporary but this is pretty much the final option and this is the most effective, for me at least anyway. and thanks again to T for turning me on to tryptophan!!! incorperated in my regeim its the cornerstone of its effectivness.

yes some people it will have bad effects on seotonin producers, but thats due to the fact they dont need it. there is not one universal cure for all and one condition as more than one subtype.

I've heard from several sources that it does wonders for depression and anxiety...but psychosis, that's another kettle of fish

id say depending on the cause. a meth psychosis with high dopamine lvls on DMT would be catastrophic! altho and alcohol induced psychosis it will be a positive life change(2nd eg is personal exp). now ofcourse it goes without saying different drugs effect different people in different ways, so what works for one might not work for another, but we all already know that :D

another thing, all this is just theory ofcourse, im not a QUALIFYED brain surgen...LOL, tho i do believe that DMT will reactivate your pineal gland is stress, PTSD or deperssion has shut it down.

Edited April 4, 2006 by Amulte

[cisumevil]

WOW that's intresting Amulte as my partner who i was refering to in above post had Post natal depression that eventually developted into more extreme depression and was also diagnosed with Bi-Polar. The tabs that the Dr gave her devoided her of ALL feelings, happy ones along with the bad ones but the DMT really seemed to lift her out of it and to this day she is still of the Tabs

Also another Positive of her use of DMT is that after a 24hr break she was able to breast feed again as the large dose's of Happy tabs stopped her from Breastfeeding while she was on the prescribed medication. So we ended up witha very happy mum & A happy bub with a boob back in his mouth.

The reason her drepression got worse in the 1st place was that while suffering post natal depression (only minor) her brother died of a Heroin overdose and she went down hill from that moment on. I dont know how but after her experience with DMT she came to the conclusion that her little brother was safe and in a happy place and she was able to get some relief.

Edited April 4, 2006 by cisumevil

[faustus]

I dunno about dmt, per se, as an antipsychotic...but that recent article by Jacob and Presti in the journal medical hypotheses (did you post that ref twix?...if so, couldn't find it again) made a convincing case for DMT being an endogenous anxiolytic.

yeah i posted that paper but i've since spent time reviewing the literature about DMT and schizophrenia and there are many flaws with the theory. for instance they claim that schizophrenics smoke because smoking is a MAOI and would elevate DMT levels. only problem with that is that MAO inhibition from smoking would also increase levels of phenylethylamine (an "endogenous amphetamine") which is anxiogenic. so any anxiolysis from DMT would be offset by the anxiogenic affects of phenylethylamine. they also claim that DMT is a ligand of the trace amine receptors and then try to link these receptors to mood regulation and schizophrenia. again, phenylethylamine confounds their theory because it's also a ligand of these receptors.

so it's plausible that DMT has anxiolytic properties but i think it's too early to say either way.

altho and alcohol induced psychosis it will be a positive life change(2nd eg is personal exp).

alcohol psychosis, as in alcohol withdrawal (delirium tremens)? watch it tiger, without medication that can be deadly...

[Amulte]

yeah i posted that paper but i've since spent time reviewing the literature about DMT and schizophrenia and there are many flaws with the theory. for instance they claim that schizophrenics smoke because smoking is a MAOI and would elevate DMT levels.

1st, do you have a link to the post/paper still? i cannot find it. 2ndly i am totally unsure of the truth behind this but i heard that nicotine is a potential precursor to serotnin, dopeimine and such, not an MAOI tho. i remember learning (tho unsure of its truth also as i dont often believe anything about tobacco anymore) that the addiction to nicotine is cause by its effects which force secreation of either dopimine and other bio-chems or the substance needed to produce them. the constant secreationn depleats the brain ability to produce on its own, hence the addiction and how/when it presents itself. but i only raise this in the hope to either confirm or correct what ive learnt about nicotine, tho i have doubt about any info on it.

alcohol psychosis, as in alcohol withdrawal (delirium tremens)? watch it tiger, without medication that can be deadly...

that wa some time ago, but DMT did help the person involved, with slow decreations of intake. but the DMT inspired the want to accually stop drinking, hence the DT's, but the DMT also lessened the DT's and shorted the dry out period. subject had experienced DMT prior to the bout with alcoholism. thats pretty much all the info one is comfortable to release about that, but rest assured subject is recovered.

[planthelper]

a friend of mine has sometimes high levels of anxiety, for example if meeting new friends, just a puff of dmt and all the anxiety was gone. another time he felt depressed, a big puff and all the sadness was gone from one second to the other. one puff might immunise you for maybe 24h, but often the sadness doesn't come back as strong either.

we are talking smokable dmt without maoi's here.

[faustus]

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Edited November 24, 2008 by twix elbert

[Salviador]

Wow, thanks for the replies.

In victoria/nsw (cant remember which) tryptophan and tyrosine are given in combination to treat some people with schizophrenia. There has been good success rates, comparable to atypicals antipsychotics. I got this information from a psyc nurse who used to work there, so i feel it is pretty reliable.

So the answer seems to be rotating around this whole tryptamine/dopamine thingo. and dmt seems to stimulate the same receptors that are understimulated in psychosis. Perhaps its part of the answer.

But at the same time, all beware, have some antipsychotics/benzos handy if you ever decide to do it yourself!!!!

[Amulte]

we are talking smokable dmt without maoi's here.

in every example i have given thats what i have been refering to.

[Amulte]

re nicotine and smoking. i promised myself i would only focus on uni-related research, so i'll have to keep this short.

Your effort is MUCH appreciated.

don't think nicotine is a MAOI per se, but smoking is. smoking inhibits MAO-A by around 40% and MAO-B by 30% (ball-park figures). up to 80% of schizophrenics smoke, this might account for their higher levels of DMT. but my problem with any anxiolytic role of DMT is that if schizophrenics have higher levels of DMT because of MAO inhibition, then they'll also have higher levels of phenylethylamine as a consequence.

ok now i see where thats coming from. hmmm, makes me wish i paid more attention to my mental being when i substituted nicotine for cigarettes then few times i did. is very VERY interesting but still i think pointless research. there is way too much money invested int tobacco for any solid info to be ever released. too many cooks spoil the broth as we say. i do believe there are medicinals there, but doubt well find them.

nicotine isn't a precursor for serotonin or dopamine. it binds to nicotinic acetylcholine receptors and these in turn affect the release of both serotonin and dopamine. all drugs of addiction stimulate the mesolimbic pathway (ventral tegmental area to the nucleus accumbens) which is the "pleasure pathway" (but things are more complicated than that as painful stimuli also activate this region). the theory is that addictive drugs "hijack" this pathway and become hyper-salient, they start to take on more importance that other biologically imperative behaviours like eating, sex, social interaction, etc.

ah ha! thanks mostly for that piece of info. my reference that came from was released by the same group responsible for 'nicotine water'. funny that...

[planthelper]

so i wouldn't doubt your claim. but this is a very low, non-hallucinogenic dose. at higher doses it's a different ballpark.

no mate, full on break thru doses wipe out anxiety and depressive moods aswell, i would say even better...

[cisumevil]

no mate, full on break thru doses wipe out anxiety and depressive moods aswell, i would say even better...

Yep after "breaking Thru" I feel like I've spent a week at a health retreat......... all refreshed & ready to go

[indigo264nm]

interesting stuff, but you guys do realise that DMT is used as a model for schizophrenia and that atypical antipsychotics antagonise the same serotonin receptors that DMT and other hallucinogens affect (5-HT 2a/2c)? anyone with schizophrenia should be very careful about taking any mind-altering drugs, particularly when said drug affects the same receptors involved in their pathology.

BTW are we talking DMT or ayahuasca? i wonder how much of an antidepressant effect of aya would be accounted for by the MAOI. from personal experience (in countries where it's legal) aya helped my depression in the short-term, but eventually it returned. it'd be interesting to see what the effects would be if you had a trained therapist on hand and/or did it regularly.

I think that very much so... I also reckon some people it's just not right for. Some friends of mine that are just muso's, great people but mash it up, has a mate that randomly tried the spice and they all say he has never been the same since (in a bad way). He was seeing spirits for weeks and didn't know how to handle it. Just not the right scene and not the attitude.

Also when you meet some people wandering gosford station who are really fucking psychotic, you don't think a puff of that sweet alien nectar will make them any more sane.