Contaminated substrate

[watertrade]

Hi Folks,

Just wondering what your thoughts are on eating mushrooms that are growing off contaminated substrate? The mushrooms are growing well and look normal but other parts of the substrate are contaminated with a variety of contaminants. Sounds great huh?

Jim

[AndyAmine.]

Personaly I wouldnt risk it.. not worth it. however if your intent on doing it then try giving it a misting wiht a h2o2 solution or if you think the contam is quite deep then you can cut it out wiht a sterile knife and then mist the wound with the h2o2 spray.

What contams do you have and how close are they to the fruiting bodies?

Any chance of some pics?

Edited March 28, 2006 by AndyAmine.

[Rev]

well the caveat is no no no dont do it

but i do

but that depends on what the contam is. if you arent sure then dont

i have no allergies to penicillium, Trichoderma or Rhizopus - predominantly blues, forest green and thick whites.but i would steer clear of mucor or anything black, purple or Pink or any other colour like that

so yeah dont do it but if you do take the time to at least make an educated miscalculation...

[willy wanker]

I'm usually paranoid about Aspargilus species(black, green and especially yellow - flavus?), but it's been suggested in scientific literature some more molds can be/are cancerogenic. But then, I'm probably being too dramatic...

Personally, I stay well clear of any contams as a rule. You can always grow another cake in a few weeks, internal organs are more tricky to replace.

[Anton]

You would most likely be alright, but are they odds your willing to take?

Post a picture if you can

[watertrade]

Thanks for the feedback.

I wasn't really that keen to eat them after the contams set in. I was just wondering what everyone thought. I am more than happy to wait a few weeks .

It’s a shame though; the tray pictured had about 8 liters of grain. I believe the problem started when I 'suffocated' the tray after putting the casing layer on. the contams had a big head start over the mycelium. Notice the 'dead' patch in the middle of the tray - this particular area of contam was a wispy white mold.

I won't take any specific contam pics, but here is the tray/tub

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...&cmd=si&img=510

Jim

[Rev]

no problem there at all

Thats normal in the middle

making even pinset can be difficult

many species like to fruit about the edges

Real contam is much funkier than that

[AndyAmine.]

Ahhh, shit ehy, what a bummer, sorry to see that mate... looks like a lovely flush!

I dont have enough experinace to say if some of those could be consumed safley or not but Im sure Rev could, also, perhaphs you can save the casing by cutting out the contam wiht a sharp knife sterilised with H2o2, then spray the wound with 3% H2O2 solution and then patch it.. similarly you could jst spray it wihtout cutting it out.

hope this helps in some way.

[naja naja]

I say common sense.

If the molds not on the actual fruit then who cares? I'll happily cut a bad bit out of a peach or apple and eat the rest,(I especially like the just going off strawberries that taste a bit winey when I eat them), so if it's just a bit of mold growing on ur casing, I'd pick the clean shrooms(cutting the bases of high up) and enjoy, but thats just me. If I can smell sumthin out of the ordinary then I just throw it(by then the casing is spent anyways and really, the mold just makes me finally do the inevitable and..... throw it out). I'm only new to this, so don't take what I have to say as gospel, But I rekon if u use common sense you'll b rite.

QUOTE" common sense isn't always that common"

naja

:ph34r:

[Rev]

people eat shrooms off where cows shit and piss, out in a field with the dirt n flies and are concerned about contams. Yes you can get nasty contams but so can a bag of peanuts or a pepperoni

the risk is small but real but small

what does the centre look like.? has it sporulated? is it mushy and bacterial?

it looks to be nicely isolated from the healthy block of mycelium

a degree of caution would be to pick only the outside ones

[Anton]

Notice the 'dead' patch in the middle of the tray - this particular area of contam was a wispy white mold.

I had a similiar experience not long ago with what you described there, it was very white and whispy so i thought it was a cobweb mold but i left it to see what happens for experience purposes and it turned out to get more dense and eventually fruited along with the rest.

Although mine fruited and is not contaminated from what i can tell the mushrooms proved to be more dense then usual (1/3 to 2/3 heavier then my normal ones). Im not certain this is a good thing as it also appeared to be very dry, ie wrinkles on top in the middle and it started to split after the veil tears. "scaling" i think the term is.

Yours look very healthy though what what i can tell in the pic.

good luck

Anton

[spiders]

i think the argument is that in an invitro environment molds that normally would be outcompeted have a chance to take a foot hold - and these molds may be more harmful than the grular kind that you would get in a natural cow pat out in a nice paddock.

Ive read that people on teh shroomery worry that the mushroom will somehow suck contaminated nutrients from a substrate and somehow become 'infected' with a nasty toxin.

I wouldnt think however that this would occur, since cubensis mycelia as an example will grow until it has exhausted its mycelium and often fruit after that time - in a half contaminated cake it will often stop at the edge of the contaminant and then fruit - i look at it as a sitaution where some of the substrate is being used by the mold and a seperate bit is being used by the mushroom.

Other times however the mycelium will grow over the mold and i guess it is plausible that if there were toxins in the mold being metabolised that this isnt good.

That being said the most common molds that cause infections in humans are usually caused by continual inhalation of spores and a severely supressed immune system - like lung infections from aspergillus (a common green mold) or a yeast (which are living all over your skin already). Most other reactions to common molds are allergenic - and as contaminations occur because of present spores in your house i wouldnt be overly concerned.

My rule for contams was to try and cut them off to minimise the substrate that they take, or move the cake/substrate outside to get their spores away and blown away in the wind.

But ive never worried at all about 'infected' mushrooms and eventually when people stop attributing their bad experiences - both physical and psychological - to a mold infection of the mushrooms we wil probably realise that its similar to expecting a lemon tree in a large pot to grow milk thistle juice from a small milk thistle in the same soil.

[watertrade]

I suppose it’s my fear that the mycelium has 'sucked' up something that I wouldn't want to ingest from one of the contaminants.

I wouldn't be so concerned about contaminants in the wild as long as the mushroom was not obviously covered in something nasty.

The two images below show the extent of the contaminations. If it was only the wussy looking white mold on the surface I wouldn't be so worried.

It’s these guys that worry me... the nasty black growth around the sides and the lovely orange/yellow slime underneath.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...&cmd=si&img=523

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...&cmd=si&img=522

I'm convinced that if I had been paying more attention in the early stages (and let the tray breath) I wouldn't have had a problem.

I will let my compost take care of contaminants and the 180 grams of mushrooms I took off yesterday...

Jim

[Rev]

well thats a little more funky

seems like you have a yeast problem dear

an opton would be to scrap off casing

scrap off the infection and use the healthy stuff as spawn for the compost pile

adding straw and aged manure would assist success

[willy wanker]

It'd be good to check if any research's been done on this subject(I'm guessing - NO). My personal concern would be that myceliums are a bit like sponges in some ways? I know it's a different situation, but MANY years after the Chernobyl disaster any mushrooms picked throughout northern Europe would be radioactive(I'm not sure if it's still the case). Mushrooms, like no other organisms, were accumulating the stuff, mopping up the spill if you like. In case of aflatoxins, I personally wouln't like to take any chances, but again, as Rev pointed out, we take our chances every time we open a packet of peanuts...

[medicinedan]

Could you just boil them for 10-15mins and make a tea/ beverage. Wouldnt this destroy the nasties?

[AndyAmine.]

I noticed up the top of the casing you have like a golden treakle looking liquid/slime, does anyone know if that is a contamination or is that myc piss from excessive mositure?

A mate had some casings going and ontop of some of the nice fluffy myc some of this golden colored slime appeared..

[bandario]

Call me paranoid, but i'd toss the lot. I don't think it can be said with any absolute certainty that toxins can't be delivered to the fruit through the mycelium network...that shit on the bottom definately looks like something you should NOT eat. Well spotted...makes me want to start using clear trays for casings!!!

[Rev]

re : andy

myc piss?

maybe ,smell it or in lab protocols 'waft it'

smells funk? or smells shroomy?

piss is shroomy/grainy gelatinous and coloured

no problem

piss like contam is yeatsy, funky bacterial eg sour apples or acetic.