collecting flower material plzhelp :)

[teonanacatl]

ive started collecting and drying flower material from a few species of cacti for later alkaloid tests, as a general rule i only collect it if it has a bitter taste. an example is one ofmy astrophytums flowered and i tasted a petal and found it was bitter so the flower was removed (i missed a chance to pollinate and assumed they were self sterile). so if people could taste flowers of their cacti and if they are bitter could they dry them and let me know you can remove the flower and leave the stigma easily so u get seed aswell. also preferably if they have a scientific name that is good to

[Guest Mexicali]

ive started collecting and drying flower material from a few species of cacti for later alkaloid tests, as a general rule i only collect it if it has a bitter taste. an example is one ofmy astrophytums flowered and i tasted a petal and found it was bitter so the flower was removed (i missed a chance to pollinate and assumed they were self sterile). so if people could taste flowers of their cacti and if they are bitter could they dry them and let me know you can remove the flower and leave the stigma easily so u get seed aswell. also preferably if they have a scientific name that is good to

yup, bitterness infers alcaloids.

There are also other plants whose flowers are sweet that contain alcaloids, eg mammillaria zeilmanianna, echinocereus triglochidiatus - both very sweet flowers).

Yes...there are some of us who eat their plants (or part thereof)

Astros will show you alcaloids except the ornatum....mind you, most ornatums in Australia are not PURE STRAIN, meaning that they have been hybridized at some point in time (or are the results of hybridization), and hence would most likely show positive when tested. Flower is bitter

Dolicothele Longimamma flowers are bitter, whereas epithelantha flowers are sweet (supposedly they are both Mammillarias!)

My Turbinis haven't stopped flowering all season...maybe I should eat some of them and report back.... ;)

I don't know...I do eat my plants' flowers (food for the heart) sometimes, but pollinating them is more rewarding. Astros are difficult in that sense since the bottom of the flower IS the seed-pod...can't get the seed AND eat it (sort of like can't have your cake and eat it...)

That's my small contribution

[Jack]

I cant say I have eaten flowers of any of my cacti but I eat the fruit from lophophora (after removing seeds) and it is very sweet.

[teonanacatl]

yup, bitterness infers alcaloids.

ya i know:) hence fairly reliable test, but bitterness depends on concentration and also other compounds present. bitterness also varies betweencompounds. but for compounds of interest and for the flower to be economically viable the bitterness will likely havta be easily tasteable.

There are also other plants whose flowers are sweet that contain alcaloids, eg mammillaria zeilmanianna, echinocereus triglochidiatus - both very sweet flowers).

got references? i wanna know what alkaloids and concentration.

Yes...there are some of us who eat their plants (or part thereof)

yeah i alwaysdo that

Astros will show you alcaloids except the ornatum....mind you, most ornatums in Australia are not PURE STRAIN, meaning that they have been hybridized at some point in time (or are the results of hybridization), and hence would most likely show positive when tested. Flower is bitter

my flower was off a A. ornatum. dont really care about taxonomy lol cos chances are its highly variable inside a species and location, so knowing which plant its from is in a way better.

My Turbinis haven't stopped flowering all season...maybe I should eat some of them and report back.... ;)

please do

I don't know...I do eat my plants' flowers (food for the heart) sometimes, but pollinating them is more rewarding. Astros are difficult in that sense since the bottom of the flower IS the seed-pod...can't get the seed AND eat it (sort of like can't have your cake and eat it...)

most cacti have inferior ovaries, you can easily remove the petals and stamens and sepal area leaveing the stigma and ovary.

[apothecary]

Any testing to be done on Trichocereus flowers teo?

[teonanacatl]

yeah sure will be. i would like to gather a substantial number of flowers before i start, will prolly do it june or december when i got time off uni so plenty of time to collect from the autum/winter flowering cacti.

[Guest Mexicali]

Aloe

Sending you flowers of:

Astrophytum Myriostigma F1

Astrophytum MYOR (Myrio x Ornatum) F1

Astrophytum Asterias Nudum F1

Ariocarpus Fissuratus Methuselah" F1 (field collected)

Lophophora Diffusa F1 (field collected)

Lophophora Jourdaniana (Echinata) F1

More on the way...decided not to eat my Turbinicarpus flowers

As for the specifics of Triglochidiatus and Zeilmanianna, not so sure....Smith (2003) wrote an extension to Trout's notes (1998) about Triglochidiatus so you may find some info there....I test plants according to what several friends at the NAC tell me....they have an understanding of what plants contain alcaloids without technology and science, so I can't provide you with specific info....all they say is that those two plants are used as sacraments. Beyond that, we need to carry out further research ;) I'll send you their flowers as well once they bloom so you can carry out the tests. One thing:

I NEED THE RESULTS!!!!

[teonanacatl]

wow thanks. yeah you can workout plants which contain certain chemical by the way organisms interact with them in the environment, this allows differentiation between chemotypes aswell. its the way natural product chemistry is heading, thebest natural product chemists are good ecologists. i would consider good ecologists to be comparative with native tribes about plant animal earth interactions.

as i said iprobably wont be able to work on them till uni holidays as ive got a full schedual so that may be june holidays or december holidays. my first priority will be qualitative to if the plants contain known psychoactive compounds which will be easily tested with TLC, if they do then quantitative studies will follow. after that more extensive testing may havto wait till i have access to some of the uni equipment or until i ask fractal nicely if he can help

please dry in a cool dark place, use CaCl to dryto crisp. then plz label bags (der i know, but i want to make sure peopl realise) and finally please remember which plant they are from

[teonanacatl]

i should be able to collect some loph flowers soon as some of my lophs appear to be about to flower (some from mexicali and one of myown:)) so if the flowers are bitter i will collect

[teonanacatl]

just collected some stapelia sp flower and tasted it, i swear it tasted like chocolate!!!!

[Guest Mexicali]

just collected some stapelia sp flower and tasted it, i swear it tasted like chocolate!!!!

:D

Stapelia flowers! How funny!

I thought I'd point something out in light of your research:

Several plants' leaves (and flowers) do not contain any alcaloids...however their stems or roots do contain alcaloids, sometimes in heavy concentration (eg Mandragora Officinalis).

Now for something of personal interest:

People say that the Lophophora root doe not contain any alcaloids....would you test that for me if I sent you a root? I find it hard to believe, since the Lophophora IS a root. Could you or anyone else run that test for me? I don't mind sacrificing a plant for the sake of science and curiosity

As far as uni goes, I understand time constraints - I'm in the same boat

The flowers are drying off, I'll send them in a week or so or maybe even wait until I get more.

Oh, and about the lophophora flowers ;) I "thought" you may already have a specimen or four, hence my sending you only other varieties and formas

[teonanacatl]

Several plants' leaves (and flowers) do not contain any alcaloids...however their stems or roots do contain alcaloids, sometimes in heavy concentration (eg Mandragora Officinalis).

yeah i know but i figured it would be easier to collect and test flowers then convince people to give up their specimums plus i would feel bad, all the qualitative measures i have acess to atthe moment require more material then a unnoticable plug removed from the plant, well actually TLC may show some compounds if they are concentrated enough ive never tried it, maybe i will.

there are legal problems with testing specifically for mescaline but a simple alkaloid test could be done for you this will tell what some some compounds are. i will keep the offer in mind

which varieties and forms usend me, i cant tell the difference lol.

what you doing at uni?

you can waitwith the flowers untill youve got more if you like im in no hurray

[apothecary]

Several plants' leaves (and flowers) do not contain any alcaloids...however their stems or roots do contain alcaloids, sometimes in heavy concentration (eg Mandragora Officinalis).

Ah but if he does discover something, then maybe people will be able to enjoy the more entheogenic side of their Astrophytums and Lophs without having to chop into them

[nate123]

Just tested- loph flowers=bland taste.

[teonanacatl]

yeah i found them sweet

[strangebrew]

I should be able to send some pachanoi petals your way, it looks like my dud buds aren't duds after all.

The plant was under eaves and even though the base of the plant was getting sun the buds just sat there. It's only now that the sun is lowering and they're actually getting direct sun that they're emerging.

[teonanacatl]

yeah that would be great, the more the better.

yeah tell me about the sun :S i just moved into this place and found the perfect spot for my seedlings, morning sun and a diffuse light the rest of the day. anyway being at uni for most of the day means i dont see whats happening during the middle of the day, i came home today at 1pm to find 2 almost completely white variegated cacti completely dehydrated and another 3 on the way, all the others were severly wilted. so yeah i didnt realise that was the direction the sun was moving and i paid big time....

[strangebrew]

The white petals aren't bitter but the outer green ones definately are. Do you want the whole thing?

PM details.

[teonanacatl]

yes plz:) i susected the green would more productive