Agave

[Rinsewind]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could tell me what alkaloids if any are in agave, I've always been led to believe the worm in mescal drink lives on agave and is supposedly full of mesc [not that the worm did anything for me] - does it have any uses beyond ornamental.

[Amulte]

i think it was Apo and YT i had a similar discussion withand i THINK we came to the conclusion its a marketing gimick.

BUT if there is any evidence i would love to read it as i cant find anything apart from hearsay and would love the legend to be true, tho im afraid its not.

ALTHOUGH - Its is an AWESOME placebo. i remember back in the day some people thought it was made of peyote and conatined massive lvls of mescalin. it doesnt but those who thought it did had a great experience. One time i had 3 worms and 'forgot' how to speak. id like to think there somthing in the Agave and there could be, maybe (wishful thinking), but i do doubt it.

[apothecary]

Mescal, Mescaline and Agave are 3 completely different things.

It is a common misconception among foreigners that some tequilas contain a 'worm' in the bottle. Only certain mezcals, usually from the state of Oaxaca, are ever sold con gusano, and that only began as a marketing gimmick in the 1940s. The worm is actually the larval form of the moth Hipopta agavis that lives on the agave plant. Finding one in the plant during processing indicates an infestation and, correspondingly, a lower quality product.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tequila

All of this has been discussed before though, a quick search would've yielded the answer to all your questions.

[AndyAmine.]

From what I understand the worm used to be a sign of good quality Taquila because if it had a high alcohol content the worm would be preserved but if it wasnt it would rot.

Now its jst as you say, a marketing gimmic.

I think the main confusion about the mescaline thing came about because of the drink "Mescal" which is a (fermented?) cactus juice drink with no hallucinogenic properties.

[apothecary]

Mescal is the Red Bean of Saphora secundiflora, there was a cult following of the stuff for a while.

They'd drink Mescal succumb to convulsive delerium for a few days and some would even die.

[Torsten]

Meszcal is also a drink made from various Agaves. Tequila can only be made from A.tequilana (the blue agave), but meszcal can be made from various different ones.

The worm is a gimmick. It was not used traditionally, but was a marketing idea that caught on real well.

[mescalito]

Mmmm meszcal the brown stuff right??

We used to buy Monte' Alban meszcal in the mini bottles years ago and they each had a worm in 'em...I ate about 10 once thought I'd lost my stomach lining until I realised they were half chewed grubs

[kakti]

From what Ive read, the "strain" of agave that mezcal is made from was a special one reserved only for the Mayan King. It was much bluer than the standard form, and was specially propagated on a certain mountain. This could be all bullshit but thats what I read (I think from a little booklet that came with a bottle of mezcal)

[Rev]

I did some reading a few weeks back and i believe there are 8 species used to make mezcal

tequila is just one type and made from blue agave ( species as noted above)

and only within one region

but there are rare local types made from wild species that sound really interesting

i am planning to import seed of several of these ive managed to identify

ill have excess and agave is easy from seed

any interest? if so ill stock some

no luck getting agave azul seed tho. plants can be obtained but with all teh bullshit in importing plants....

thatll have to wait

seed maybe a raity anyway as i hear its mostly clonal propagted thes days and you need two individuals to make seed - and it gets cut as its going to flower - and theres a shortage of plants

all this makes seed even less likely i figure

[in_spirit]

i drank a 1ltr bottle of tequila over two nights my girlfriend got it in mexico, sh etold me i had passed out but walked to bed, where she laid beside me and had deep conversations with me and then she did some stuff which she said could have got her pregnant without my consent, etc etc etc she didn't take advantage of me though,, i was in a void anyway my eyes were open the whole time but I saw nothing I heard nothing and I remembered nothing. This bottle was Monte Alban tequila and the tag said in spanish " this drink will open the doors of perception." [GF was Sth American, she interpreted before i drank it ] I had eaten the worm which it said was used to indicate true tequila from agave as this worm only grows in..... etcetc

Mezcal is the ferment of the agave like a wine or beer while tequila is the distillated product of Mezcal....Monte Alban is brown/yellow because it is aged in charred oak barrels, while other tequilas, white tequilas are aged un uncharred oak if at all... This is a true story

[Rev]

agave seed of one of the regional mezcals

wish me luck

nice big seeds im thinkin this will be easy....

any pointers?

[whiterasta]

Mezcal is the ferment of the agave like a wine or beer while tequila is the distillated product of Mezcal....Monte Alban is brown/yellow because it is aged in charred oak barrels, while other tequilas, white tequilas are aged un uncharred oak if at all... This is a true story

The fermented juice is actually called Pulque in most regions I've been to. Distilled pulque yeilds products like Monte Alban(mezcal) and other true tequilas(Sauza,etc). As far as I know the bean called mescal is a poisonous deleriant used in rituals.

WR

[Andrew]

I think i,ve id,d some large agaves nearby as agave americana"glauca"

Do they have any uses?I plan on turning a flower stalk into a didge when I get

a chance.

[mescalito]

The first time I saw one in flower I thought"what a mad looking tree that is!" then I saw the base ^_^ there's quite a few around here too.

I heard once of some aboriginal tribe using the flowers as their xmas tree...kinda weird when you think about it

[Andrew]

Some of the flower spikes are around 30 ft tall,they,re huge.

Lots of little babies around so I might adopt one and bring it home

with me.They dont seem to mind the ocean spray either.

[Rev]

whats the variegated one with a trunk?

i grabbed a bag of pups from a city park and have a box of them now but still dont know their identity

same goes for the blue one

I have a tray of Agave salmiana coming up now

only took a week

http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plants/Aga...e_salmiana.html

next up Agave cupreata

http://www.rainforest-alliance.org/neotrop...01/sep01-1.html

http://www.farmingsolutions.org/successtor...ries.asp?id=78#

a nice page on agave ethnobotany and history

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/agavepages/articles/articles.html

Edited April 2, 2006 by Rev

[mescalito]

I think the blue one is the one Andrew refers to as americana glauca which is basically cosidered a weed here.