flushes - potency

[botanika]

I just harverted my 1st in vitro mexican cubensis flush. Lovely healthly buggers in just 1 week! I read somewhere that 2nd and 3rd flushes are more potent. Can anybody confirm this? thanks

[-YT-]

I always thought the 1st flush was the most potent, can anyone confirm this?

[Rev]

http://jeremybigwood.net/JBsPUBS/JBScienti...OfPsi/index.htm

[nabraxas]

"the level ov psilocin was generally zero in the first (or sometimes even the second) fruiting"

--that's pretty interesting. means it's not such a good idea to rush out as soon as they start comming up, but better to wait 'til abit later in the season??

[spiders]

Yeah a lot of people have crapped on about this one on the shroomery because one study indicated that the levels of psilocin increased in later flushes - although the levels of psilocybin if i remember decreased and were highest at the first flush.

All in all - i thought that the variation in potency was non existant - more a change in the ratio of the two alkaloids.

My person experience is quite at odds with this study anyway - certainly the first sub flushes of the season are by far the most potent - so much so that i remember the first flush in 2003 making an experienced campainer have a metldown on a tram after the injestion of one, largge fresh sucker...

with cubies most times the first flushes was the most healthy looking and robust, which suggested to me that they were more likely to be higher in potency and certainly the blue staining was always strongest in the earliest flushes (which demonstrates that Bigwood and Beug's study cannot be valid in many cases as Stamets and Gartz insist that the blue staining is the result of enzymes oxidising the psilocin content of the fruit body - and in there study the mushrooms basically had no psilocin in the first flush)

Its like the whole 'aborts are more potent' story or the 'mushrooms stop increasing in alkaloid content as soon as the veil breaks' = people like that wanker that went to jail - I cant even remember his name now - start this type of stuff without any evidence what-so-ever and the shroomery people all just buy it no questions asked...

[inpsyght]

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Edited February 7, 2012 by inpsyght

[botanika]

Seems more likely the bruising exposes the cells to O2 via air OR water - if the oxidised compound is soluble it may bleed out in the water and sensitive veil tissue is easily damaged even by water washing. I noted the richest 'blue' around the base of the stems where they had been picked, handled and vermic washed off but the richest 'dark blue' was around damaged areas from scars or nicks and oxidised mainly by air Tiny shrooms also went inky. Could it be that water simply carries the blue oxide thus staining a wider area of the mushroom a paler blue? (or if still alive recirculating). I remember finding some late season subs once that were so blue from age (or frosts?) i overlooked them at first but they looked similar and were not anywhere near rotten. I nibbled one - sub taste, but didnt indulge in any spring snow skiing as the potency was no longer there and no 100% ID nice looking though! 'return of the electric blue satin stems'

[botanika]

Impsyght: sorry my post just sounded in disagreance with u, meant water could possibly be responsible 4 some of the oxidation process after bruising

[occidentalis]

Yes, there is O2 dissolved in water, especially if it has just come out of a tap or is being kept moving.

There was a discussion on EBA about the blueing a while ago - a good hypothesis was put forward suggesting it was the result of metal/psilocin complexes which were broken down by oxidation. IIRC.

[inpsyght]

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Edited February 8, 2012 by inpsyght