Is 'natural' shroom cultivation possible?

[Benzito]

Hey guys,

Been reading the forum for a while, but this is my first post. Thanks for what you've unkowingly taught me so far.

If Cubensis grow in cow manure in the wild, could you possibly cultivate shrooms in your yard just by raking cow manure into one patch of grass frequently?

What would you need to do to ensure ideal growing conditions if this was possible?

(obviously this wouldn't be an easy task, but lets just say hypothetically)

[Torsten]

they love growing in dense vege patches like under silverbeet

Just put a thick layer of manure from a cube paddock under your plants and cover with some straw. keep moist.

Just be aware that other species may pop up too.

[Rev]

Just as T says

not too thick and not too wet

its a real laboratory in shit succession. heaps of strange species come up

wont work unless you can already see the cube myc getting through the dung

for conservation reasons dont pull up rooted pats just skim off the loose ones already doislodged by cows

or lese you might reduce the sporeload in the paddock for next year

[smogs]

also if you wanted to help things along you could egt a spore print... mix into watering can and water the patch... this would help probably

or better yet make a spawn jar and mix it threw...

although those options might nto be apreciated by the fuzz

[Benzito]

Cool, thanks guys.

What if you were using cow-dung that wasn't colonised. Or, at least, you couldn't guarantee it.

I'm just thinking, if you bought bags of cow manure from your local farmer and kept raking it into the soil for months, would cubes set themselves up there eventually?

Besides cow-dung and moisture, what kind of environment do they like to grow in? Raised areas, slight depressions, under trees, etc?

[mescalito]

The cube spores would have to come from somewhere though dude otherwise who knows what you would be photographing

If they are indiginous to your area then you may have a chance, if not next to none

As far as conditions go as Rev said wet but not soaking and don't make them work too hard (hypothetically of course)

Have you checked out The Shroomery? .

[Cyjack]

Do spores survive dormant in an area (in or on cow pats) for a whole season before springing to life in the right environment then?

[Rev]

yes it appears the spores sit ver winter to hatch in late spring pats

at the shroomery look up a series of posts by joshua

on rogue beds

he used horse shit compost which one of these days i will get off my arse and make...

cant be that hard

[ 01. March 2005, 00:50: Message edited by: Rev ]

[sinoptik]

yes, it's actually alot easier than it sounds as long as you start with actual mushroom mycelium instead of spores. Where I was doing it in the southeast US, it rained alot and the humidity was constantly in the upper 80's so conditions were good from the start.

To successfully do it, I think there a couple things you should worry about. First off, dig a hole about 3" deep and fill it with either cow dung, worm castings, or any other nitrogen rich poo that you can find and wet it down. Then mix your mycelium throughout the dung making sure it is evenly spread among the pile. I only covered them up with about an inch of pine needles but you could case it with coco coir (coconut husk) and then spray it liberally once or twice a day to keep the humidity up. In about a weeks time, you will see fruits breaking through your casing layer or pine needles if conditions are maintained. That method has worked for me at 2 different residences by just using lots of water and providing them with a good source of dung. Don't worry about contaminating the spawn because nature will take care of it once it is outside and growing. Good luck

[Boo Ha]

I have a very similar question to the original one, except that there were already Fly Agarics growing quite happily under pine trees in my front yard when I moved in to my house - how difficult would it be to grow cubes from spore-prints in such an area? What would the process be?

[occidentalis]

Flys are mycorrhizal, so they have a completely different lifestyle to Psilocybes. Their presence does not indicate anything about the suitability of the site for Psilocybes.

[smogs]

that means they grow off the roots of plants.... they provide plant with tarce elements and plant provides them with food

cubes are dung lovers and grow in piles of horse and cow shit...

[Boo Ha]

Oops, my bad. I'm only just learning about all this stuff. I think I might have meant subs, not cubes. Subs can grow around pine needles right? So what are the chances of them growing naturally if some spores just happen to land in the area?

[Benzito]

Well, young boo ha got me thinking:

Could you get amanita's to colonise the root system of a tree? What would be required?

In nature what situation has caused this symbiotic relationship to develop?

[occidentalis]

Well you could theoretically just spray spores around the root zone of a suitable tree species. However most mature trees are already going to have very well established mycorrhizal associations and there may not be any room for a new species.

Your best bet would probably be to grow some seeds of a suitable species in sterile soil, in a greenhouse. When you plant the seeds, innoculate with as much fly spores as possible. The wait for the tree to grow .

[smogs]

i have some fly spores if u want to have a look at them under the microscope.

remember tho if you were to acidently drop them around the roots of a tree they would have to be the right type of tree to support them... they use hazel trees for truffles so i know u can use them

but too tired to think of others atm

in nature this happens because the fungi mycelium is supplies the tree roots with lots of nutrients (i think mainly trace elements?) and in exchange tree gives mushroom nutrients. If its not flys it will be some other fungus

and yess subs can grow on pine needles... and gum leaf mulch amoungst other things

[occidentalis]

 

quote:

---

fungi mycelium is supplies the tree roots with lots of nutrients (i think mainly trace elements?) and in exchange tree gives mushroom nutrients

---

The fungi provide the tree with increased uptake rates of trace elements and macronutrients. Especially P. This is most noticable in conditions of very low P availability. The mycorrhizal plants will shoot ahead of nonmycorrhizal ones. But once you start fertilising them the difference decreases. And when you increase fertiliser application rates the relationship doesn't form at all. Mycorrhizal fungi also increase water availability from the soil, because hyphae are so much smaller than root hairs, they can get into soil pores where roots can't normally go and get the water there. They release organic acids into the soil matrix which breaks down soil particles and releases new minerals. The also change the growth pattern of the root system by releasing hormones which make conditions more suitable for mycorrhiza formation.

The tree in return provides the fungus with sugar, that favourite food of all heterotrophs. In fact the amount the fungi take is so great that in some cases mycorrhizal seedlings actually grow slower than non-mycorrhizal becuase the fungi are stealing all of the photosynthetic products from the mycorrhizal ones!

I could go on about mycorrhiza all day...

[Rev]

:D :D :D

yeah i know the feelin'

ah i think i know where youve been hangin out

re subs

- yes

and teh best way is to transplant fistfuls of living mycelium to fresh moist woodchip beds in a partly shaded environment. case with pine duff or tea tree mulch and leave be.

they do not grow well on needles alone

Bracken, buried stickwood, woodchips n young cones are the natural habitat - occassionally youll find subs on dung too ive seen it in SA and a reliable source sees it in WA

re amanita dispersal

yeah its been doe by a member of the forumsusing spore water onto birch root tips outddors

amainita muscaria is an aggressive mycorrizal species that can drive out other species. And im led to believe its a naturally late coloniser (ie nt seedlings) so it must be aggressive enough to muscle in on existing communities anyway

It grows on Oak, Pinus, Birch, nothofagus and o/s on Eucalyptus but not here yet sofar as we know

[Benzito]

Interesting Smogs. I wouldn't mind examining some of those. If only I could get the microscope out of my stomach. :D

Anyone wanna suggest some other suitable host trees for Amanita's? Of course, I will UTFSE, but I'm sure some friendly, knowledgable person will know a few off the top of their head.

[_e_]

i was just curious whether anyone had any information to support the hypothetical viability of outdoor bedding subs or azurescens in australia? And if so which climatic regions and seasons?

This is purely for curiousities sake.

cheers

[Ed Dunkel]

Rev:

re amanita dispersal

yeah its been doe by a member of the forumsusing spore water onto birch root tips outddors

I managed to grow a patch (that comes back every autumn) under a birch tree by spraying and injecting Amanita spore water on top and under the soil near the fine feeder roots.

I also placed the cap segments randomly around the drip zone of the tree and dug some under near the roots.

Each year it flushes more and more mushrooms.

I have had only luck with one so far, but haven't really tried hard with spreading the colony.

Good luck with it anyway and report back.

[Rev]

min(E)rval:

i was just curious whether anyone had any information to support the hypothetical viability of outdoor bedding subs or azurescens in australia? And if so which climatic regions and seasons?

This is purely for curiousities sake.

cheers

Its been done. By many people.

parameters are the same be it psilocybe, king stropharia or hypholoma sp

Any of these species can be grown using a few jars of paper or sawdust spawn put to beds of mixed woodchip and sawdust cased with tea tree mulch constructed in late summer

I think where u are is within the range - ive seen them (subs) up here near nightcap nat park

tel me do you get good cool weather below 15C and rains from autumn through to at least mid winter? A maritime climate is good

I am unfortuantely well outside that range but i can still grow stropharia rugosoannulata as they have a wider range of tolerance

i recomend the text growing gourmet and medicinal mushrooms by paul stamets

email me if your state library system doesnt have it

[ 22. April 2005, 03:59: Message edited by: Rev ]

[_e_]

thanx rev,

my major qualm is that where i am is low lying and coastal whereas the areas ive encountered the enchanted ones have always been in the more elevated mountainous regions...I

dont think the rainfall would be a problem as you can always 'create' a certain rain pattern if one doesnt exist...Its more a lack of cold snaps or intense cold periods that we are lacking here... more inland might be more appropriate...

Anyway, if its been done there is hope, if anyone was that way inclined...

like i said i cant help being curious

[Rev]

i dont think intense cold in needed actually or there woulkdnt be subs in coastal north NSW

I think its just a matter of

1.isolate

2.wet humid late autumns and winter

3. chilling temps - think stone and pomefruits they need xxx hours below 7C to flower

if u can grow regular stonefruit i reckon theyd fruit